Obedience Instructors Going Too Far!

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Needless to say we failed puppy pre-school and didn't get an attendance certificate like the other puppies.

What a horrid puppy preschool!! NOBODY should be failed at puppy school...these are babies!!! They aren't supposed to be perfect....It's like grading a three year old kids finger painting & then making them stay back a year!!! There's always something positive to be noted about a puppy or owners achievements, even in the most challenging pups.

An attendance certificate is just that....to show you attended, not how "good" or "bad" you were....you should have got one like everyone else

i agree but my puppy failed a positive training puppy course basically cause the trainer didnt know how to deal with a dog that was not food driven and was excitable.

it really put me off positive training and i still have a negative view of it because of this trainer

That's such a shame...I'm sorry you had such a bad experience I use reward based training wiht puppies, and even with the "excitable" puppies, once we cracked what the motivation was for these babies, they came on in leaps & bounds. For some of them, play is the reward.....seems this instructor lacked both dog & people skills

yes i was so disappointed and it was really expensive too. i worked out she has a strong prey drive but the silly instructor told me to keep shoving food in her mouth...i left cause the dog was so confused.

[Ms Faye]

WTF is wrong with some instructors at obedience clubs......

Just because a dog does a runner during recalls does not mean its ok for the instructor to lift the dog up by the scruff of the neck sometimes off the ground while shaking it & screaming NO in its face I have seen this done quite a few times now.

I have been a member of obedience clubs for 19 years & cant believe this happens & not just at the one club :D No one but me seems to think this is wrong and are shocked to see it. Who is there to report it to when the clubs are so clicky??

If you have been a member of obedience clubs for 19 years you should recognise the difference between a repremand and abuse. I was in this class with my GSD and the instructor did not pick the dog up by the scruff of the neck but checked the chain and if telling a dog No is abuse God help us. The instructor well knows this dog and she has been notourious for running away when let off lead. The owner is at her wits ends as how to fix this problem before the dog is hit by a car or is attacked in class by another dog while playing this dangerous game. It saddens me that instructors who give up their time for free to help others in the interest of dogs can be classified as clicky perhaps you should play it forward to repay the time and effort I know that has been afforded to you by those same clicky instructors.

[huski]

If you have been a member of obedience clubs for 19 years you should recognise the difference between a repremand and abuse. I was in this class with my GSD and the instructor did not pick the dog up by the scruff of the neck but checked the chain and if telling a dog No is abuse God help us. The instructor well knows this dog and she has been notourious for running away when let off lead. The owner is at her wits ends as how to fix this problem before the dog is hit by a car or is attacked in class by another dog while playing this dangerous game. It saddens me that instructors who give up their time for free to help others in the interest of dogs can be classified as clicky perhaps you should play it forward to repay the time and effort I know that has been afforded to you by those same clicky instructors.

And just what is correcting the dog for running off once you catch it going to do to proof a recall?

If the dog is notorious for running away off leash then it shouldn't be let off leash while it's still unreliable at recall.

Edited March 14, 2010 by huski

[Kavik]

Diesel used to have a running off issue when we did recalls in obedience. I would have been upset if someone reprimanded him! The most an instructor should do is catch the dog and hold for the handler to come and get (or ignore the dog). I have found his recalls have improved immeasurably once I really made it a great game and ran the other way, lots of rewarding when he got to me. I need to be much more exciting when training Diesel than my other dogs as he is much more easily distracted and lower drive.

[Miss Squish]

Funny that!! I was contacted by a few others in that class that couldnt believe how wrong that was, as the dog was already back by the owners side & told to stay before being reprimanded. I didnt know that before as I was at the other end of the line!

Yes what happened with the GSD was no where near as bad as what I have seen, but how did that dog connect the running off with being reprimanded??

If you know me you would know my dog was one of the worst runners for a long time,zoomies off through other classes every week, we went back to basics, puppy recalls & worked our slowly up to longer recalls, untill she got what was expected of her & now havent had a recall problem for a long time.

Edited for going OT

Edited March 14, 2010 by Miss Squish

[Incavale]

It can't be the only dog club near you.

Join another one.

[Miss Squish]

Where did I say this dog was abused?? And no the GSD on this occasion wasnt lifted off the ground but I have seen it done before with another dog

edited again for going OT

Edited March 14, 2010 by Miss Squish

[Ms Faye]

Funny that!! I was contacted by a few others in that class that couldnt believe how wrong that was, as the dog was already back by the owners side & told to stay before being reprimanded. I didnt know that before as I was at the other end of the line!

Yes what happened with the GSD was no where near as bad as what I have seen, but how did that dog connect the running off with being reprimanded??

If you know me you would know my dog was one of the worst runners for a long time,zoomies off through other classes every week, we went back to basics, puppy recalls & worked our slowly up to longer recalls, untill she got what was expected of her & now havent had a recall problem for a long time.

As for paying it forward, 4 years of asking to become an instructor or helping in other ways & being ignored every time. My name taken by numerous people over the years wanting to help out with nothing.

Their are lots of great instructors at the club, but in general the training methods are outdated in my opinion, compared to other states. Mostly heel work for an hour & for dogs who have been around for a while no new games or exercises. For those of us that like to go out every week to spend time & have fun with our dogs the fun goes when its the always same.

Lets not change what actually happened and contradict your own post. You would have fixed your own recall problems with the help of those out dated instructors who would have suggested you go back to basics. Perhaps your attitude is the exact reason you have never been asked to be an instructor. I know how keen the club is for helpers and find it unbelievable that you have ever put up your hand and been not utilised. I do know you have trouble helping with equipment. Many instructors at that club have tried to help you out but clearly you know better. Perhaps it is time you move on this club obvoiusly doesn't cater to your needs and there are other clubs within the area.

[Ms Faye]

It happened tonight with a young German Shepherd bitch, she took off running around having fun & when she was caught she copped it, grabbed by the scruff lifted up & NO screamed at her A few of the instructors in the higher grades do it & everyone seems to accept it. They club is so clicky I know nothing would be done about it if I put in a complaint.

Where did I say this dog was abused?? And no the GSD on this occasion wasnt lifted off the ground but I have seen it done before with another dog

And as for being clicky, I have only just recently started trialling as I just havent been interested before. To enter & go to a trial the first couple of times is scary ( lol well was for me, I was sh**ing myself) to have no support from My club when I get there & have to sit on my own or with people from other clubs who will let me hang with them is not nice

WTF read what you are posting and be very careful what you are saying as this is a blantant lie i sugest you take this up with the club as you are not posting the truth on here

we as a trialling group have NEVER NOT let you sit with us and the club instructors over the years have given you one on one instruction and i personally have helped you many times in the past i find your comments are very missleading and not the truth

Edited March 14, 2010 by Ms Faye

[Miss Squish]

Happy to discuss it with you anytime Ms Faye as obviously myself & others saw things differently to what you saw.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Miss Squish

[Ms Faye]

Happy to discuss it with you anytime Ms Faye as obviously myself & others saw things differently to what you saw.

As for outdated yep I got that from others on this forum as I didnt think there were other ways to train & yes it may work for others but all the heelwork, same exercises, do just turn some dogs off training due to boredom. It doesnt work for Asia.

How do you say one thing and then contradict what you are saying

Yes! You did see it differently from what I saw, what bothers me are the lies you have said on an open forum perhaps you can ask all the people who were upset after the lesson to contact the committee

I ask why haven't you found somewere else to go there are other clubs around that maybe more suitable to what you want as this is not the first time you have complained.

I look forward to discussing it as do the other instructors who have done there best to help you over the years.

Never have I seen a instructor scruff or lift a dog off the ground and lets be honest NIETHER HAVE YOU

if it had happened there would be a uproar in the class think about what you are saying.

You have gone from mispublicizing an incident to critasizing all aspects of the club.

Why have you continued your membership when you are so unhappy?

[Miss Squish]

The word from someone else in the class were that the dog was "severly disciplined" & didnt know why?

Not my words & I dont know this person, never spoken to them.

This is why it has never been taken to the committee All band together as friends to make me look like Im making this up

[kirst_goldens]

The things being said - dogs hit etc.. is rediculouos i would be walking ASAP and if ANYONE EVER put their hands on my dog they would be hospitilized! i can not believe in this day and age they way animals are being treated!

[Erny]

It happened tonight with a young German Shepherd bitch, she took off running around having fun & when she was caught she copped it, grabbed by the scruff lifted up & NO screamed at her A few of the instructors in the higher grades do it & everyone seems to accept it. They club is so clicky I know nothing would be done about it if I put in a complaint.

Where did I say this dog was abused?? And no the GSD on this occasion wasnt lifted off the ground but I have seen it done before with another dog

I'm a little puzzled by this contradiction too.

Mind you, I don't agree with reprimanding for a no-recall once the dog has been come back, but the above different accounts are confusing. But do be careful what you say and ensure that it is truth. If you do not then you can quickly find yourself in the hot seat. Not to mention that untruths (from either party) are not fair on the accused and they too, if they are telling untruths publicly can also find themselves in the hot seat.

If you do have the grievance, Miss Squish, you have several choices.

1. Leave and go elsewhere.
   
2. Complain to the Club in writing, setting our your grievances.
   
3. Complain to the Club in writing, setting out your grievances, and leave.
   
4. Don't leave.
   

I know you say that you don't believe that if you put anything in writing anything would be done about it, but you would at least have the matter documented and this helps to alleviate the 'he said : she said' component.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Erny

[Miss Squish]

What I saw was not dog lifted off the ground but sitting dog lifted enough so front feet were up off the ground, If you get that?

Looks like I have no choice but to never go to a club in Adelaide again, & do nothing as it seems word will get around that I lie & im a troublemaker.

[gsdog2]

If you have been a member of obedience clubs for 19 years you should recognise the difference between a repremand and abuse. I was in this class with my GSD and the instructor did not pick the dog up by the scruff of the neck but checked the chain and if telling a dog No is abuse God help us. The instructor well knows this dog and she has been notourious for running away when let off lead. The owner is at her wits ends as how to fix this problem before the dog is hit by a car or is attacked in class by another dog while playing this dangerous game. It saddens me that instructors who give up their time for free to help others in the interest of dogs can be classified as clicky perhaps you should play it forward to repay the time and effort I know that has been afforded to you by those same clicky instructors.

And just what is correcting the dog for running off once you catch it going to do to proof a recall?

If the dog is notorious for running away off leash then it shouldn't be let off leash while it's still unreliable at recall.

I have to agree with huski and I'm wondering why this question hasn't been answered Ms Faye :D

I always thought the first rule for an off lead recall was if you don't have a reliable recall the dog should not be let off the lead.

[Erny]

What I saw was not dog lifted off the ground but sitting dog lifted enough so front feet were up off the ground, If you get that?

Ok - I'm getting the better picture.

Looks like I have no choice but to never go to a club in Adelaide again, & do nothing as it seems word will get around that I lie & im a troublemaker.

Hopefully you didn't take that from me. It is ok to be questioned if things go on a public forum. There was another time when someone has posted on here - let's just say there were many embellishments to make a place of training look worse than what it was. So sometimes things need to be clarified. And when it is going up public, the picture should be made clear for the teller's sake, or deeper trouble can brew for them. Either way, to let dogs off lead knowing a recall was unreliable and then punishing (in whatever fashion) once the dog had returned or to slap a dog for reaching for food offered to its face, in the name of "food refusal" is not "training" IMO.

I don't think "do nothing" is the way to solve anything though. If you have a complaint - and by your accounts you certainly do, then it should be put in writing so that it can at the very least be documented. If any of my trainers did something like what you've described I would certainly want to know about it. Apart from me falling off my seat because I know that my trainers know better than that, I would want to take it up with them as well. Not only for their perspective on things, but also to avail the opportunity to put wrongs to rights.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Erny

[Ms Faye]

And just what is correcting the dog for running off once you catch it going to do to proof a recall?

If the dog is notorious for running away off leash then it shouldn't be let off leash while it's still unreliable at recall.

I am not here to debate training methods but to question why someone is posting lies.

Training methods are like arse holes everyone has one and thinks theirs smells better than the next guys.

No offence meant

[huski]

I am not here to debate training methods but to question why someone is posting lies.

Training methods are like arse holes everyone has one and thinks theirs smells better than the next guys.

No offence meant

The "lies" you are questioning relate directly to whether or not the training methods used are appropriate.

Personally I cannot see any reason why you would catch a dog who has run off and correct it once you caught it, or why a dog notorious for having no recall is allowed off leash in the first place.

Edited March 15, 2010 by huski

[piper]

Personally I cannot see any reason why you would catch a dog who has run off and correct it once you caught it, or why a dog notorious for having no recall is allowed off leash in the first place.

Huski, I am not 100% sure which clud is being referred to here but I can say it is unfortunately not a one off. I once visited a club down that side of town (I suspect the same club but could be wrong).

At the invitation of a committee member I knew (and reason I was visiting) I joined in a class appropriate to the level of my dog. My dog that they had never met... I excused myself from class after being told I needed to grab my dog by the scruff and lift and shake her back into a sit when she laid down in a sit stay - reason she laid down was stress due to the person next to us doing the same to their dog. I was told I needed to do this lift and shake 3 times for it to be effective. Thank god they didnt decide to try and show me or they would not have known what hit them!

I then sat at the side and watched. And saw a dog do a recall and veer off part way back to the handler at which point people came charging out shouting at the dog and waving things. causing it to run off the opposite direction where another person was luckily able to get it befroe it reached the road. When I spoke to the person I knew at the club about this I was told the dog does that every week. I was very disappointed and not at all comfortable with what I had witnessed.

This was quite a few years ago now and I would have hoped with information on training methods being more widely available that things at clubs would have changed, sadly it seems not. I took a long break from training at clubs and that was in part due to frustration at things I saw - I had volunteered, I had instrcuted, I had been on committees but felt i was hitting a wall and you can only do it so long before you wear out (or get concussion, lol) so at that point I stepped down. Now I go along and use clubs for training but pretty mich do my own thing.