I Am At My Wits End And Do Not Know What To Do

[bigboy]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

we use easy walk harnesses on our beagles works a treat .

[Anastascia]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

we use easy walk harnesses on our beagles works a treat .

Thanks all, I am going to only walk one until this is much better.

I currently walk backwards or stop when they get to the end of the leash. Should I just turn around and walk the other way instead or do???

How do I get them to walk next to me and not out in front? I presume I should have the leash reasonably short and just stop dead/turn around as soon as they hit tension?

[poodlefan]

Thanks all, I am going to only walk one until this is much better.

I currently walk backwards or stop when they get to the end of the leash. Should I just turn around and walk the other way instead or do???

How do I get them to walk next to me and not out in front? I presume I should have the leash reasonably short and just stop dead/turn around as soon as they hit tension?

It's often easier to reward the right position. Do you carry treats on your walk?

[Anastascia]

Thanks all, I am going to only walk one until this is much better.

I currently walk backwards or stop when they get to the end of the leash. Should I just turn around and walk the other way instead or do???

How do I get them to walk next to me and not out in front? I presume I should have the leash reasonably short and just stop dead/turn around as soon as they hit tension?

It's often easier to reward the right position. Do you carry treats on your walk?

Hi PF, yes I do.

Ok, so tonight a better outcome. I left one in the backyard and took beagle out onto the street and started small, back to the beginning.

I just walked him and said heel and gave him a treat when he was at my side. He did not pull once! He did go to the end of the lead but I stopped straight away as suggested here and then called him back to my side. He did this about 3 times in total. I walked him for around 15 minutes in total and included a short trip along the path where it is more distracting. He payed attention to me nearly the whole time. I was delighted!

The cav was almost as good. He payed very good attention to me but a few times got in front of me watching me getting treats out. I lured him back to the heel position and rewarded him.

So, I will definately be walking them by themselves for the forseable future because it was really enjoyable (first enjoyable walk for a lonngggg time!).

Thank you all so much

[poodlefan]

Thanks all, I am going to only walk one until this is much better.

I currently walk backwards or stop when they get to the end of the leash. Should I just turn around and walk the other way instead or do???

How do I get them to walk next to me and not out in front? I presume I should have the leash reasonably short and just stop dead/turn around as soon as they hit tension?

It's often easier to reward the right position. Do you carry treats on your walk?

Hi PF, yes I do.

Ok, so tonight a better outcome. I left one in the backyard and took beagle out onto the street and started small, back to the beginning.

I just walked him and said heel and gave him a treat when he was at my side. He did not pull once! He did go to the end of the lead but I stopped straight away as suggested here and then called him back to my side. He did this about 3 times in total. I walked him for around 15 minutes in total and included a short trip along the path where it is more distracting. He payed attention to me nearly the whole time. I was delighted!

The cav was almost as good. He payed very good attention to me but a few times got in front of me watching me getting treats out. I lured him back to the heel position and rewarded him.

So, I will definately be walking them by themselves for the forseable future because it was really enjoyable (first enjoyable walk for a lonngggg time!).

Thank you all so much

Glad to hear things went well. I'd keep that up for a few weeks and then, after both dogs have had a walk, try them both together.

[persephone]

Great progress !! Well Done .

[Anastascia]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

A quick question please.

This morning on our walk a few kangaroos hoppped across our path. Beagle went to the end of the lead and strained to get a closer look.

I stopped straight away but felt that was almost a reward for him as he got to stop and stare at them. In cases like that, should I walk the other way instead? And call him after me, praise when he comes to my side?

Many thanks

[poodlefan]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

A quick question please.

This morning on our walk a few kangaroos hoppped across our path. Beagle went to the end of the lead and strained to get a closer look.

I stopped straight away but felt that was almost a reward for him as he got to stop and stare at them. In cases like that, should I walk the other way instead? And call him after me, praise when he comes to my side?

Many thanks

I'd suggest you keep moving (could be same direction) and use his name to get his attention. Reward like crazy if he looks at you, not them.

[poodlefan]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

A quick question please.

This morning on our walk a few kangaroos hoppped across our path. Beagle went to the end of the lead and strained to get a closer look.

I stopped straight away but felt that was almost a reward for him as he got to stop and stare at them. In cases like that, should I walk the other way instead? And call him after me, praise when he comes to my side?

Many thanks

I'd suggest you keep moving (could be same direction) and use his name to get his attention. Reward like crazy if he looks at you, not them.

ETA: When distractions come up.. a quick "lets go Fido" and briskly continuing your walk will help.

Howie my young Whippet currently greets approaching dogs by barking excitedly and spinning on the lead.. I use the same approach to keep him going. His antics are decreasing in length. I find continuing on and behaving in a matter of fact manner does help. He is praised and rewarded when his brain re-engages.

Edited March 10, 2010 by poodlefan

[BeagleBoys2]

Put a head halti on the dogs but remember a walk is also a time for your dogs to check out your neighbourhood. I never use our walks as a training session.

We might walk to an area to train but then I change their equipment and give them a command so they know they are working.

But with the pulling...with my first two Beagles it took me a good week or so to get out of our street. Everytime they pulled I turned around and walked in the opposite direction. Yes, it's boring but guess what...if your dog really wants to go on a walk it will find this boring too. And eventually it will connect the dots and understand that when they don't pull you walk. (BTW - as it turned out my first two Beagles didn't really enjoy walks. They preferred training, agility and lure coursing.)

Plus I worked on a "look" command and eventually this decreased the sniffing too. Sometimes people suggest my Beagles are broken because they don't sniff.

Finally, being at heel should be the sweetest spot in the world...reward it and reward it well.

Edited March 12, 2010 by BeagleBoys2

[Erny]

Put a head halti on the dogs but remember a walk is also a time for your dogs to check out your neighbourhood. I never use our walks as a training session.

Whenever the lead is on your dog, you are training. But beyond that basic concept, I do use walks as training sessions. Whether that be training to the loose lead; training to sit and drop in different and unexpected places (be that simply along the footpath, for no particular reason). I 'scatter' the 'command' moments here and there - they don't form a majority of the actual walk time, and it is a good way to generalise training.

The walk is 'my' walk, but I do permit my dog to take time out for sniffing and sussing out the environment. But I randomise (eg places for sniffing etc) as much as I possibly can. It's my terms.

[Prydenjoy]

Haven't read the entire thread, but have you tried a head halter? Hard to pull with a head halter, also great for keeping sniffy noses off the ground as I could imagine would be a problem with a beagle! Perhaps not so suitable for a Cav with a short nose, that being said I did used to have one for my Boxer. Even if you could get one just for the beagle then it would be easier to train the Cav if the Beagle isn't egging it on. I'd be arming myself with plenty of treats when I walk out the door and rewarding for walking nicely, then the walk is more enjoyable for everyone involved! That is how I taught Berri not to go mental every time we walked past another dog, he would pull and snarl and now he hardly bats an eye, in fact now I take him to the off leash park all the time because he's gone from a mental frenzy every time he sees another dog, to a typical playful Pap. The power of rewards is incredible!

[huski]

I'm not a fan of head collars myself, I did all our of leash training with a well fitted martingale. Like Erny I like to use walks as an opportunity to train.

I wouldn't ask Daisy to keep her nose off the ground an entire walk, I don't think it would be possible for half an hour plus and besides, how boring! Knowing how strong her scent drive is, a head collar wouldn't stop her if she was determined to follow a scent. I am happy for her to scent on walks as long as she's not pulling, and that she focuses on me when I ask her to. I use walks as an opportunity to practice commands like 'look'. I like to test how quickly I can get her focus away from scenting/other dogs/x y z distraction and back on me and I like to reinforce quick compliance too.

Remember that dogs learn to pull because we teach them that's how they get where they want to go, and a big part of leash training is teaching them that pulling will get them no where.

Edited March 13, 2010 by huski

[Prydenjoy]

There's nothing to say even with a head halti that you can't stop and allow the dog to sniff. As for following a scent, well you can train just as effectively whether you use a martingale or the like, or just a head halter and rewards, along with a heel and watch me command. I've never had Berri on a check chain but if I tell him to heel past a distraction he does just that and doesn't take his eyes off mine until I tell him to. It comes down to training more than the tool you use, I guess the tool you use comes down to personal preference.

[huski]

There's nothing to say even with a head halti that you can't stop and allow the dog to sniff. As for following a scent, well you can train just as effectively whether you use a martingale or the like, or just a head halter and rewards, along with a heel and watch me command. I've never had Berri on a check chain but if I tell him to heel past a distraction he does just that and doesn't take his eyes off mine until I tell him to. It comes down to training more than the tool you use, I guess the tool you use comes down to personal preference.

Just to clarify, I have no problem getting Daisy's focus even when she's on a scent, but I don't really care about keeping her nose off the ground when we are walking unless I ask for focus. I guess I don't really see why you would want to keep sniffy noses off the ground for a walk, I don't view it as a problem and I am happy to let Daisy scent as long as she's not pulling (or I've given a command like look etc). I never stop to let her sniff but she will scent as we are walking.

I agree it's not so much about the tool, I'm just not convinced that a head collar would be necessarily be "great" for getting a drivey beagle's nose off the ground, it certainly wouldn't have worked with Daisy. I don't see how a head collar would force a dog's head up off the ground if it wasn't pulling, and if the dog's drive to scent is strong enough they will pull on the head collar anyway - I see dogs pull on head collars all the time.

Edited March 13, 2010 by huski

[Longcoat]

well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed.

- walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you

- dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled

- if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it

- if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come

- If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms

- remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog

I have always found that training methods offered by trainers experienced in high drive physically powerful breeds will have learned the best methods of loose leash walking and leash behaviour simply as the window to train and control these dog types effectively is extremely narrow. Get it wrong with powerful leash pullers of high drive, the handler ends up flat on their face, where smaller less powerful breeds can be more easily managed and for the handler be far less physically challenging. IMHO, if a training method works with a high drive powerful breed, it will work even better when adjusted to suit a smaller less driven breed using the same concept. Head halters, harnesses may work with some dogs to better manage the behavior, but to train the dog, some corrective action is needed and I totally support the advice that Nekhbet has provided above

[poodlefan]

Longcoat:

IMHO, if a training method works with a high drive powerful breed, it will work even better when adjusted to suit a smaller less driven breed using the same concept. Head halters, harnesses may work with some dogs to better manage the behavior, but to train the dog, some corrective action is needed and I totally support the advice that Nekhbet has provided above

Corrective action is NOT always necessary and will cause some lower drive dogs to totally shut down.

No one method will be successful for all dogs. You need a few tools in your tool box for this and most other training challenges.

[huski]

I have always found that training methods offered by trainers experienced in high drive physically powerful breeds will have learned the best methods of loose leash walking and leash behaviour simply as the window to train and control these dog types effectively is extremely narrow. Get it wrong with powerful leash pullers of high drive, the handler ends up flat on their face, where smaller less powerful breeds can be more easily managed and for the handler be far less physically challenging. IMHO, if a training method works with a high drive powerful breed, it will work even better when adjusted to suit a smaller less driven breed using the same concept. Head halters, harnesses may work with some dogs to better manage the behavior, but to train the dog, some corrective action is needed and I totally support the advice that Nekhbet has provided above

There are plenty of trainers who train high drive dogs and do so without Kohler style leash corrections.

[Longcoat]

Longcoat:

IMHO, if a training method works with a high drive powerful breed, it will work even better when adjusted to suit a smaller less driven breed using the same concept. Head halters, harnesses may work with some dogs to better manage the behavior, but to train the dog, some corrective action is needed and I totally support the advice that Nekhbet has provided above

Corrective action is NOT always necessary and will cause some lower drive dogs to totally shut down.

No one method will be successful for all dogs. You need a few tools in your tool box for this and most other training challenges.

Do you disagree that the concept Nekhbet suggested won't work in the OP's situation???. Personally I think it will with adjustment to suit the requirements as I mentioned. Naturally the corrective force would be differently applied to the OP's dogs than it would be from the same misbehaviour from a working line GSD or Belgian Malinios which a good trainer will easily determine the necessary level of correction required.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Longcoat

[Longcoat]

I have always found that training methods offered by trainers experienced in high drive physically powerful breeds will have learned the best methods of loose leash walking and leash behaviour simply as the window to train and control these dog types effectively is extremely narrow. Get it wrong with powerful leash pullers of high drive, the handler ends up flat on their face, where smaller less powerful breeds can be more easily managed and for the handler be far less physically challenging. IMHO, if a training method works with a high drive powerful breed, it will work even better when adjusted to suit a smaller less driven breed using the same concept. Head halters, harnesses may work with some dogs to better manage the behavior, but to train the dog, some corrective action is needed and I totally support the advice that Nekhbet has provided above

There are plenty of trainers who train high drive dogs and do so without Kohler style leash corrections.

As there are plenty of trainers who avoid Koehler type training methods on dogs that need it and never achieve reliable obedience from all the dog's they train either???. A good trainer should be able to determine the methods best suited to that particular dog's requirements.