Anastascia Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hi, I am hoping for some advice please because I am at my absolute wits end and do not know what to do. I have two male, desexed dogs, a beagle and a cav, 15 months and 12 months. I cannot get them to walk properly. They both started puppy school at eight weeks and since then I have been trying to train them to loose lead walk. 1 year later I am about to just give up because I have become so depressed and upset. I have had private behavioural trainers come out. What they suggested was as soon as they put tension on the lead to walk backwards until the loosen the lead, then praise and go forward. Sounds fine but they will walk next to me for about two seconds then go forward again. During one walk I could literally do that 40 times and they still do not get it. I have also tried just changing direction. Same result. I have tried giving them treats when they walk next to me and marking it by saying heel and praising them. I feel like I am loosing my mind, they will walk nicely for 5 seconds then its walk backwards or stop and start again. My cav seems determined to always be in front, it's like a 24/7 competition. Another trainer suggested only walking them seperately until they are better but even that doesn't seem to make a big difference. The beagle is just so busy and always looking to get into something/sniff the grass/go into the bushes. It's nonstop. I have a sporn harness for both of them which does make a difference but they are not great on that either. I am on my own at the moment, as my partner (his beagle) has deployed overseas for 9 months. I have contacted K9 Force and could get into him in June but I am not sure how I am going to go until then. I dread getting up each morning and trying to walk them and the inevitable tears that follow Any advice? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Are you training them to walk on a loose lead on their own or together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastascia Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Are you training them to walk on a loose lead on their own or together? Started just on their own but because my partner is constantly away I was trying to walk two in one go so I am not spending both before and after work walking. Lately I have been walking both but sometimes I just walk one on one, no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) K9 Force/K9 Pro does recommend Jane Harper, a behaviourist here in Brisbane, who many DOLers including myself have used. Not sure if you have consulted her but I would highly recommend her (in fact it was Steve who first referred her to me). I know what it's like to have a "busy" beagle! http://www.dogsontrack.com.au/ Whereabouts in Brissy are you? (PM if you prefer). K9Pro also has a distance learning package for loose leash walking, have you considered doing that in the mean time? Edited March 9, 2010 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastascia Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 K9 Force/K9 Pro does recommend Jane Harper, a behaviourist here in Brisbane, who many DOLers including myself have used. Not sure if you have consulted her but I would highly recommend her (in fact it was Steve who first referred her to me). I know what it's like to have a "busy" beagle!http://www.dogsontrack.com.au/ Whereabouts in Brissy are you? (PM if you prefer). Thanks so much Huski. My bad, I should have changed my location. I am now back in Canberra, which is a shame because I found our trainer in Brisbane very helpful! Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Thanks so much Huski. My bad, I should have changed my location. I am now back in Canberra, which is a shame because I found our trainer in Brisbane very helpful! Thanks for your help Ah I gotcha now! I don't know any trainers in the ACT unfortunately Might be worthwhile look at K9's loose leash walking program if it will be a while before you can get a consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Have you tried an obedience club? There are a couple of obedience clubs in ACT. The obedience clubs will train you to train your dog. You can get the details from the ACTCA website. You should be able to join the club training days a lot faster than getting to see a behaviourist. Alternatively, the secretaries of the obedience club's may be able to recommend local behaviourists. The obedience club contact details from the ACTCA website are: ACT COMPANION DOG CLUB Pres: Gary Kingdom ~ Sec: Toni Magi Club: 6295 7764 or email: [email protected] web site: www.actcdc.org.au BELCONNEN DOG OBEDIENCE CLUB Pres: Barbara Brown ~ Sec: Jan Horley Phone 6241 7999 or email: [email protected] web site: www.bdoc.asn.au TUGGERANONG DOG TRAINING CLUB Pres: Mr Peter Ridley ~ Sec: Miss Amanda Bateup Phone 6293 4122 or email: [email protected] web site: www.tdtc.asn.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastascia Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Have you tried an obedience club? There are a couple of obedience clubs in ACT. The obedience clubs will train you to train your dog. You can get the details from the ACTCA website. You should be able to join the club training days a lot faster than getting to see a behaviourist. Alternatively, the secretaries of the obedience club's may be able to recommend local behaviourists. The obedience club contact details from the ACTCA website are:ACT COMPANION DOG CLUB Pres: Gary Kingdom ~ Sec: Toni Magi Club: 6295 7764 or email: [email protected] web site: www.actcdc.org.au BELCONNEN DOG OBEDIENCE CLUB Pres: Barbara Brown ~ Sec: Jan Horley Phone 6241 7999 or email: [email protected] web site: www.bdoc.asn.au TUGGERANONG DOG TRAINING CLUB Pres: Mr Peter Ridley ~ Sec: Miss Amanda Bateup Phone 6293 4122 or email: [email protected] web site: www.tdtc.asn.au Thank you gundog. I am a member of the ACT Club and have been to their training classes but I think this needs to be dealt with in a private or one on one setting. If anyone knows of someone, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I too had dogs that pulled and it was almightily frustrating so I know exactly how you feel. For me what worked was the 'be a tree' method.' But it took 200% commitment! Any time the leash was tight I became a tree and we did not move until it was loose again. Honestly with my first dog one day we walked into the drive way and he was straight to the end of the lead so I stood still and literally 45 minutes later he loosened the lead. Most boring walk of my life. No matter where I was if there was any pulling I just stood still - just meant I had to plan extra time for my walks because in the beginning we didn't move a lot.... if I didn't have time to do that we played fetch in the back yard instead. I think that for your dogs to get it you really have to just walk 1 at a time until it is 100%. I know its extra work but in the long run you will benefit. Otherwise maybe you could look into a gentle leader head halter or sensible harness to use until your apointment with Steve so that at least you guys can enjoy your walks a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Walk them separately Anatascia.. you'll never teach two dogs to walk on a loose lead walking together. What method are you using to teach walking on a loose lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think the walking backwards thing has now become a very predictable pattern for your dogs so they don't mind walking backwards/forward/backward/forward and so on each time, because they are reaching their destination with this going on each time! Matters not to them how many times you do this, its not working and it won't. You can most certainly walk 2 dogs together and you should not have to go out of your way to walk them separately, it's just that you have not found/mastered the right technique yet. It most certainly can be achieved without having to train/walk them separately and it is very dependant on the style/method of training being applied. Perhaps you could arrange a private session with one of the trainers at your current club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Have you tried clicker training, click and treat every time they take a step with no pulling, make sure you have yummy treats , cheese, BBQ sausage, bacon etc and do it before they eat their main meal for the day so that they are hungry Edited March 10, 2010 by Masons_mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 You can most certainly walk 2 dogs together and you should not have to go out of your way to walk them separately, it's just that you have not found/mastered the right technique yet. It most certainly can be achieved without having to train/walk them separately and it is very dependant on the style/method of training being applied. Unless you have a dog in each hand and absolutely perfect timing KelpieI, I'd have to disagree with this. You have to reward the loose lead when that particular dog is demonstrating the desireable behaviour. Same goes for dealing with tight leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 You can most certainly walk 2 dogs together and you should not have to go out of your way to walk them separately, it's just that you have not found/mastered the right technique yet. It most certainly can be achieved without having to train/walk them separately and it is very dependant on the style/method of training being applied. Unless you have a dog in each hand and absolutely perfect timing KelpieI, I'd have to disagree with this. You have to reward the loose lead when that particular dog is demonstrating the desireable behaviour. Same goes for dealing with tight leads. This is a hard one, my theory is that yes you can teach them separately and it would be best but then as soon as you start walking the 2 together again they will pull, it has to be a mixture of training them one on one and then both together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 You can most certainly walk 2 dogs together and you should not have to go out of your way to walk them separately, it's just that you have not found/mastered the right technique yet. It most certainly can be achieved without having to train/walk them separately and it is very dependant on the style/method of training being applied. Unless you have a dog in each hand and absolutely perfect timing KelpieI, I'd have to disagree with this. You have to reward the loose lead when that particular dog is demonstrating the desireable behaviour. Same goes for dealing with tight leads. This is a hard one, my theory is that yes you can teach them separately and it would be best but then as soon as you start walking the 2 together again they will pull, it has to be a mixture of training them one on one and then both together. Agree. I also agree that with training, you shouldn't have to walk your dogs separately. I walk 4 dogs together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Which is my point exactly PF, the technique shown to the OP is not working and therefore needs to find a trainer who is able to demonstrate and teach her what and how to do it correctly. Teaching a dog seperately is one thing and you can achieve LLW with a dog when on it's own but when you pair that dog up with another and the usual triggers emerge (pack, excitability, contest of being in front etc), you need to train it all over again with the 2 dogs together. This is double the work for the owner who just wants to walk her dogs together. I deal with these situations regularly and have never come accross an owner who was not able to apply the technique required for this sort of situation, unless the dogs were way too big and strong for the owner or the owner had a disability of some sort which restricted strength and/or use of arms etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Which is my point exactly PF, the technique shown to the OP is not working and therefore needs to find a trainer who is able to demonstrate and teach her what and how to do it correctly.Teaching a dog seperately is one thing and you can achieve LLW with a dog when on it's own but when you pair that dog up with another and the usual triggers emerge (pack, excitability, contest of being in front etc), you need to train it all over again with the 2 dogs together. This is double the work for the owner who just wants to walk her dogs together. I deal with these situations regularly and have never come accross an owner who was not able to apply the technique required for this sort of situation, unless the dogs were way too big and strong for the owner or the owner had a disability of some sort which restricted strength and/or use of arms etc. Agree it's a two step process. However I think it's doubly difficult to achieve loose lead walking with multiple dogs when any of those dogs cannot achieve it when walked alone. Anatascia, do your dogs walk on a loose lead alone? Edited March 10, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Ah I gotcha now! I don't know any trainers in the ACT unfortunately Might be worthwhile look at K9's loose leash walking program if it will be a while before you can get a consult. Yes, speak to Steve about the distance program. It's really quite easy (the DLP) if you are willing to put in the time to train Another suggestion - where do you walk them? If you are wanting to train loose leash walking you really need to be starting in a very low distraction environment and then slowly working your way up. You might have to find somewhere really boring to start of with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed. - walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you - dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled - if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it - if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come - If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms - remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 well fitted correction chain on the beagle, martingale collar on the cav. Start walking then around the backyard first I think time has taken it's toll and you're in no state to walk the dogs. They're not listening to you at all hence the competition who is to get ahead. If they run ahead, stop and let them correct themselves. You'll probably get a surprised 'YELP!' but it wont hurt them. Time to put the foot down if this is to succeed. - walk with a purpose, and dont worry too much about where the dogs are going, you walk at your pace and dont let them sway you - dont walk two dogs with massive long leads, you'll get tangled - if they shoot ahead turn around, let them self correct and call them to follow you. They'll soon learn shooting around is not worth it - if they walk nicely, praise should be enough. Praise also for watching you of their own accord remember cement the good behaviors when they come - If you can wrangle in someone to help you that would be good too, two dogs walking together BUT one person per dog to save your arms - remember dont slow or stop ... this is the dog controlling the walk. I dont care how big the dog is no dog stops me when I walk them, I say how fast, when to go, stop, sniff and pee. Comes with time but it is perfectly possible for any dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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