Opinions Please On Letter To Our Neighbour

[casowner]

A simple sign that states

No Unauthorised Entry

Tresspassers Will Be Prosecuted

Dogs on Premises

is enough

[Greytmate]

Whenever I write anything, I write loads and then keep cutting it back so it ends being a short, sharp communication that deals with the issue at hand. My first draft is always a rabbling mess way worse than anything you'd ever be able to produce - lol.

But seriously, the advice people are providing is good - just address the issue that they're entering your property without permission, you've previously asked them not to and you would like them to respect your wishes. If it was me, so you can take it or leave it, I wouldn't talk legal ramifications yet - you've already laid the foundation by an official request not to enter the property. In discussions with them, I wouldn't say anything about your dog being protective or anything like that (I mean in general discussion, not just in a letter) for the reasons everyone has stated. You just can't guarantee people won't misuse this against you and you don't need that issue to occur.

All the best with it and hope it gets sorted out without affecting your relationship with your neighbours (I applaude your desire to maintain the peace, but seriously they're not really respecting you much at the moment).

My first drafts are exactly the same. In fact, it's a good idea to get it all out first, warts & all. Then sit back & cold-bloodedly cut it into shape, leaving out all the warts that could come back & bite! Just keep to short, clear info that's relevant to the matter.

So I totally agree with the advice you've given.

My best wishes to the OP, too....that this will lead to sorting the matter.

I agree with this.

You get the first draft down on paper, and then make it more concise.

I do like the friendly tone of the letter. Nothing will get a neighbour's back up more than an overly officious pseudo-legal letter of threat. You are not a lawyer, and so it is silly to pretend to be one.

I also agree that the priority is good neighbourly relations, which of course includes them respecting the boundaries.

The fact is, they probably don't even realise how much of a big deal it is. To them its a ball, and possibly a challenge. Outrun the big dog.

[Nic oh lah]

A simple sign that states

No Unauthorised Entry

Tresspassers Will Be Prosecuted

Dogs on Premises

is enough

Problem being they're jumping over our boundary fence by going over their garden shed. Morons. And using our framework to get back over. I have signs on our front gates saying "Warning - Dogs on Premises" but they're not going near the front fences.

[Nic oh lah]

The fact is, they probably don't even realise how much of a big deal it is. To them its a ball, and possibly a challenge. Outrun the big dog.

Haha - would love to see them try to outrun the Greyhound.

[spottychick]

Sorry but my experience with Police is that you should NEVER rely on them for legal advice etc. They do not know that stuff.

Personally I'd recommend you start with a friendly warning that confirms your previous verbal warnings for them not to enter your property. Mention specifically what you said to them and when. I would leave out all mention of "dangerous dogs" but would mention you have a dog in the yard. If that doesnt work then I'd get a legal letter, from a law firm or legal center with an official warning.

Something like this:

I'm just writing regarding people from your house entering our property.

The first time someone came into our yard to get a ball was [when???} At the time we spoke to you and asked that if you need a ball retrieved from our back yard please knock on the front door and don’t enter our yard uninvited.

But again, someone from your house entered our back yard a second time last night without our permission.

Please, please do not enter our yard – just knock on the door when we’re home or slip a note in the mailbox asking us to toss back your ball when we get home – be prepared though that any ball over our fence may be chewed to oblivion before we get it.

If it happens again we’ve been advised by the Police to press charges for trespassing. We obviously really don’t want it to come to that but having already asked that no one enter our yard the first time someone jumped in, and having it happen for a second time last night, we are concerned for the safety of people entering our yard, and for the wellbeing of our dogs and ourselves.

Thanks so much – seriously hope there’s no hard feelings.

[RubyStar]

Hi Neighbour,

We have verbally requested on two prior occasions that you refrain from entering our backyard to collect tennis balls – requests which you ignored. On legal advice we are providing you this written advice to inform you not to enter our back yard for any reason without our consent. If you continue to ignore our request we will consider pressing trespassing charges.

Please respect our desire for privacy and personal security. We are more than happy to retrieve lost items for you if you knock at our front door/phone, etc.

Yours sincerely,

Neighbour

I like this - takes the dog factor out of the equation. Regardless of if I had a dog or not there is NO way I'd want my neighbours in my backyard! That's just rude.

I even hate it when neighbours stick their head over the fence! My dogs go berserk! Even overly friendly Labs can be territorial. I've had a previous neighbour stick their head over the fence to tell our dogs to stop barking (not the Labs, small yappy things we had when we were growing up) but umm an unknown person sticking their head over is just going to make them bark at YOU even more! Dogs barking are annoying, but seriously, that is not the way to go about quietening them down. Whoops, went off on a tangent...

[Bisart Dobes]

We went through this with our neighbours several years ago - with kids hanging over the fence and tormenting the dogs. Dobes - not sure if that classified them as stooopid or really really bored.

We spoke to the neighbours - voicing our concern for the kids safety and the fact that we did not want our dogs put into that situation - they denied the kids were doing anything - continued to happen. Spoke to them again, same response coupled with abuse.

So we went to our council and put in a formal complaint process. Voicing our concerns for the childrens safety (3 dobes - if one fell over the fence it was not likely they were getting out unscathed ) and our biggest concern that we didn't want our dogs put into a situation where they would be put down (and they would).

The council were great - they did all the leg work, met our dogs and realised they weren't crazy to kill , saw the kids doing the usual from inside our house - and then went to pay a visit to the neighbours. She denied that the kids ever did anything like that - luckily the kids were hanging over the fence teasing the dogs right at that time - so the officer just pointed and said "like that?". Warning was issued and it never happened again.

We have a 8 foot fence, all the access gates are locked etc etc - we have done all the right things to ensure our dogs are never at large in the community and they have the right to never be put into a situation where they have to defend their property. Because they would - no hesitation.

The reason we went though the council was that our insurance wouldn't have covered anything the dogs did if we went through the police. The council issue warnings, etc etc under local laws and we are now exempt from any legal obligation if anyone is injured in our yard by our dogs.

Not sure that works with every shire / state but it did with ours.

My biggest concern was that through no fault of their own our dogs could be put down for their actions - actions which to them would be justifiable.

Oh and we still get on great with our neighbours .

[harley]

What an awful thing for you to have to go through. And what stupid friends of your neighbours!

I think the advice offered about keeping the note short and sharp has been good, so I won't repeat anything else. Just wanted to show my support for you and hope things turn out ok

[Danois]

IMO I would not send the letter that you drafted AT ALL. You say that its to cover your arse legally - it actually opens you up to more issues - you may not understand some of implications behind the the wording/ phrasing you have used.

No offence to our friendly cops on DOL but never rely on them for legal advice and I really do not understand the part of having a JP on the letter. All a JP can do is witness your signature on documents in which it is required to be witnessed. Does not add anything more than that.

Your letter needs to be succinct, factual and objective. Leave all mention of the dog out of it.

Dear Neighbour

I was disappointed to see [who] in our yard the other day as we have previously requested (on ]date]) that you do not enter our property (including via [how]) without our consent.

I again repeat my request that you do not enter our private property without our consent.

If you lose a ball or otherwise over the fence then we request that you knock on our door or, if we are not at home, leave a note for us and we will return the ball over the fence.

We take the issue of people on our property without our consent very seriously. We have no desire to escalate this further however we must place you on notice that we will do so if you cannot respect our request in this regard.

Regards

[you]

Edited March 9, 2010 by Danois

[persephone]

supplying them with extra tennis balls (....in case one goes over the fence and we aren't home to retrieve it for you....)

and running a line of barbed wire along the top of your fence/edge of shed etc.. should stop it .

[Cosmolo]

I would use Danois letter

[Longcoat]

OK, you're entitled to your opinion. And no it doesn't sound professional as i'm not writing a formal legal letter, i'm writing a note to the neighbours thats freindly but covering my ass. You say you "don't mean to criticise" and i'm the person to give "specific legal advice" so i'm not engaging an independant solicitor, for goodness sakes. I just wanted some opinions here from the point of view of "am i being too harsh / not harsh enough" from other dog owners who could imagine themselves in my situation - i'm not asking for a work evaluation - so really I find it a bit annoying that you would suggest i'm unprofessinal and not qualified to write my own letter. And if I was sitting down to write a legal letter of demand and instruction I wouldn't be coming to DOL for advice on it!

Agreed with the "dangerous due to dogs" being left out- honestly, i want to scare them off at the end of the day as i'm upset with strange men coming into my yard in the night, they could be staring in my lowset bedroom window when my hubby is on nightshift for all i know, and it wouldnt be hard for them to get through a screen window or something - they're rough as guts and i'm not wanting to get them offside, but i dont feel safe with them entering my yard. I shouldnt have to be scared for my safety or that of my dogs in my own home.

What are your council laws regarding dogs and trespassers???. In SA, dogs are exempt from prosecution for reacting against intruders and trespassers on your property???.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Longcoat

[juice]

danois.

you always take time out to help dolers, anyone who doesn't take your advice is crazy

well done, again ;)

[sandgrubber]

I didn't read the entire letter either (I'm guessing your neighbour wouldn't either) but I thought your were setting yourself up a bit, your description of the dog's behaviour could be seen as aggression (here come's the local council with their dangerous dog wand) and you are much to apologetic for something you don't need to be sorry for.

I don't think people should give advice if they're not willing to read one long/two short paragraphs.

[16Paws]

*sigh* I'm sorry you're having a bad enough morning to feel the need to comment.

edited because I'm having a stressful day and this annoyed me.

FYI I read enough of letter to get the general idea of what was being said and stating that I hadn't read the entire letter was to get a accross the point that it was too long and some people who obviously already have disregard for their neighbours probably wouldn't bother reading it all either.

Edited March 10, 2010 by 16Paws

[Nic oh lah]

I didn't read the entire letter either (I'm guessing your neighbour wouldn't either) but I thought your were setting yourself up a bit, your description of the dog's behaviour could be seen as aggression (here come's the local council with their dangerous dog wand) and you are much to apologetic for something you don't need to be sorry for.

I don't think people should give advice if they're not willing to read one long/two short paragraphs.

I appreciate everyones advice. And this advice was really sound from 16paws. Anyway. Thread over - I talked to the neighbour yesterday rather than writing anything down. Police advised whether I gave them written notice or not they are still illegally trespassing on my property which they can be charged for. So i told them exactly that.

[Jeff Jones]

But hang on a minute ..... there was a discussion ages ago about the "dog warning" signs. I think it was Jeff (DOL member) (not sure) who mentioned that if someone is told what could happen and that person still, knowingly, continues to do what they did, then there is NO argument against the dog. Something along those lines ...................

Hi Erny.

I can not remember that thread? I have done some searching but nothing useful turned up. I will have another scroll through later.

...and hi Danois.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Jeff Jones

[harley]

Just wondering how your neighbour responded to your chat?

[Erny]

But hang on a minute ..... there was a discussion ages ago about the "dog warning" signs. I think it was Jeff (DOL member) (not sure) who mentioned that if someone is told what could happen and that person still, knowingly, continues to do what they did, then there is NO argument against the dog. Something along those lines ...................

Hi Erny.

I can not remember that thread? I have done some searching but nothing useful turned up. I will have another scroll through later.

...and hi Danois.

Hi Jeff . Thanks for popping in . Perhaps it wasn't your good self who posted what I thought I read. I'll have a look for the thread myself as well, but it was a while ago.

[Nic oh lah]

Just wondering how your neighbour responded to your chat?

Yeah not bad - they just said "oh - we didnt think it was a big deal" to which I said, well it is for us, we feel like it invades our privacy and we're concerned that our dogs will hurt you" and they agreed to knock on the door next time. I did say "well theres the park accross the road, then you wont lose your balls over anyones fence" and they said they'd never thought of that. Idiots. I hope it doesnt happen again, but i've given them 3 verbal warnings now so once more and i'm calling in the cops.