Opinions Please On Letter To Our Neighbour

[ellz]

OK, you're entitled to your opinion. And no it doesn't sound professional as i'm not writing a formal legal letter, i'm writing a note to the neighbours thats freindly but covering my ass. You say you "don't mean to criticise" and i'm the person to give "specific legal advice" so i'm not engaging an independant solicitor, for goodness sakes. I just wanted some opinions here from the point of view of "am i being too harsh / not harsh enough" from other dog owners who could imagine themselves in my situation - i'm not asking for a work evaluation - so really I find it a bit annoying that you would suggest i'm unprofessinal and not qualified to write my own letter. And if I was sitting down to write a legal letter of demand and instruction I wouldn't be coming to DOL for advice on it!

Agreed with the "dangerous due to dogs" being left out- honestly, i want to scare them off at the end of the day as i'm upset with strange men coming into my yard in the night, they could be staring in my lowset bedroom window when my hubby is on nightshift for all i know, and it wouldnt be hard for them to get through a screen window or something - they're rough as guts and i'm not wanting to get them offside, but i dont feel safe with them entering my yard. I shouldnt have to be scared for my safety or that of my dogs in my own home.

Well then if you know what you're doing, why bother asking?

And you can find it as annoying as you like but you DID ask!!

Your grammar is not the best, punctuation all over the place. You repeat yourself. Regardless of your profession, it was a really badly penned piece of work. Sorry, but that is fact!

Edited March 9, 2010 by ellz

[Kelly_Louise]

I shouldnt have to be scared for my safety or that of my dogs in my own home.

Exactly... but that's why you need to state the facts, and why you have had to resort to writing a letter. It's not just about your dogs. It's about you, your safety, and your dogs comfort in their own home (which they have every right to). I understand you want to keep it friendly... but they do not appear to be getting the message (neither did mine... it wasn't until I absolutely blew my top one day after it happening yet again after several requests to come to our door... and then it got messy... but at least they could see I was serious and very upset this time). You can be blunt without being offensive

[LDR]

And to add - a really good friend let himself into my private (7 foot fences etc) yard the other day via the side gate - I was pegging out washing at the time and didn't hear the door bell / knocking (and have told him to just come around the side if that happens).

I almost screamed the house down I was so flustered and surprised! Then again I'm an exclaimer! Once I got over my "arrrghhh there's a man there!" moment I laughed but I tell you had it been a neighbour or one of their unknown mates, I probably (on gut instinct) would've taken to them with a garden shovel! - fight or flight and all that.

I can't even fathom what goes though (any breed of) dog's mind when they are confronted with that. It's certainly not one I'd want to risk my butt guessing over for the sake of a tennis ball.

efs

Edited March 9, 2010 by LDR

[Nic oh lah]

I didn't read the entire letter either (I'm guessing your neighbour wouldn't either) but I thought your were setting yourself up a bit, your description of the dog's behaviour could be seen as aggression (here come's the local council with their dangerous dog wand) and you are much to apologetic for something you don't need to be sorry for.

Regardless of whether you have a dog, a guard rabbit or a garden gnome with an angry expression on it's face - your neighbours and any other member of the public have no right to breach your fence to enter your property.

Keep the letter short and formal, it doesn't have to be mean but if you want legal security it needs to be clear.

Hi Neighbour,

We have verbally requested on two prior occasions that you refrain from entering our backyard to collect tennis balls – requests which you ignored. On legal advice we are providing you this written advice to inform you not to enter our back yard for any reason without our consent. If you continue to ignore our request we will consider pressing trespassing charges.

Please respect our desire for privacy and personal security. We are more than happy to retrieve lost items for you if you knock at our front door/phone, etc.

Yours sincerely,

Neighbour

Thanks 16paws - good advice. I will follow it.

Again I just want to reiterate to everybody that I am not a crap Paralegal - please don't keep flaming me in light of legal advice etc etc, I am just a woman who is terrified that a drunk freind of a neighbour will disregard my dogs, jump the fence and grab me in the night. I know it's irrational. Fears ARE irrational. I was attacked by a group of man as a teenager and I will never forget it. So yes, i am irrationally paranoid that another man will come after me in my own home, and I am very frightened. It doesn't matter that as a legal worker I should know better, at the end of the day i'm not thinking in a rational sense as a third person to the issue because it's me, its personal, its my scarred memories and deathly fears, and its my home that's being invaded. Well - its my yard, not my house, but i still am really upset as i feel really invaded having someone on my property without my permission. My Hubby is starting with Qld Police this yr because he wants to help people that have things happen to them like what happened to me, which means night shifts. I am getting braver and braver since that night when i was 18 but i'll never totally heal and I can not just "suck it up" and act like nothings wrong when i feel so so upset by it.

I've tried not to be emotional about it but i'm terrified and i dont know what to do, i'm afraid of provoking the neighbours for the same reason, i dont want to be vulnerable because im scared. Now i'm horribly embarrassed that people i know are aware that this happened to me as i try to move past it but i feel like i have to put my hands over my head and defend myself because i am bloody good at my job, but this is not about my job.

ETA - I'm so sorry that my hurried letter penned in a fit of tears and anxiousness is not going to win a nobel prize for ingenuity and grammer - since when is posting on DOL a lesson in Grammar? I posted for some support and advice, not to be hounded for my grammar! Forget it - who needs it really. I have met some lovely people on DOL but sometime you just feel like people love to get the boot in and jump down other peoples throats.

Edited March 9, 2010 by NicGSDlover

[16Paws]

If you're worried about neighbour relations. Hand them a formal note and a tube of tennis balls and a chocolate bar at the same time. (you really shoulnd't feel the need to be nice about it since they are the ones causing you distress but I know what it's like to be afraid of neighbours reactions)

*edit after reading you last post* - take your husband with you

Edited March 9, 2010 by 16Paws

[LDR]

If you're worried about neighbour relations. Hand them a formal note and a tube of tennis balls and a chocolate bar at the same time.

Great idea.

Also I'd say "look I don't like feeling scared in my own home and it really riles Soph up as she's so protective, please cxan you guys respect that".

Then give them a stern yet motherly look. I pull the "r" word out when necessary with males and it seems to put them in their place as needed.

[ellz]

I'm not "flaming" you and I'm not saying you're a crap paralegal....you've thrown that into the equation yourself.

What I'm saying is that you are being very naive. The dealings that I have had with legal eagles over the years in dog-related situations have all emphasised one major thing..... ADMIT NOTHING and don't say anything more than you NEED to.

Disclosure is one thing, leaving yourself open to further issues is another thing altogether.

Take a step back and look at the situation as if you were advising somebody else on the same matter. You would probably deal with it very differently.

As I said, I would be dealing with the matter of trespass first and foremost. The dog situation is an incidental albeit real factor.

Editing to add: BTW, I'm not talking through my hat either. As a Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner/breeder, I face prejudice and stupidity pretty much every time I move house or go out in public with my dogs. I am well accustomed to having to think on behalf of other people who have absolutely NO idea how to act around a strange dog of any breed, let alone a "vicious one" (apparently so anyway, according to the media and other sources) like the Stafford.

The happiest day of my life was when I was able to move out of suburbia and away from idiots who couldn't respect the right to privacy of those around them.

Edited March 9, 2010 by ellz

[Nic oh lah]

I'm not "flaming" you and I'm not saying you're a crap paralegal....you've thrown that into the equation yourself.

What I'm saying is that you are being very naive. The dealings that I have had with legal eagles over the years in dog-related situations have all emphasised one major thing..... ADMIT NOTHING and don't say anything more than you NEED to.

Disclosure is one thing, leaving yourself open to further issues is another thing altogether.

Take a step back and look at the situation as if you were advising somebody else on the same matter. You would probably deal with it very differently.

As I said, I would be dealing with the matter of trespass first and foremost. The dog situation is an incidental albeit real factor.

I'm sorry i'm getting all emotional and ridiculous. Its hard to step back when you're scared. I am being naive - I am naive! I've never had to deal with this before which Is why i'm asking advice from all of you. I bought my job into it as from a legal point of view my advice to others, and the advice of my boss just now when he saw me shaking and upset after reading this thread, is that yes, obviously you admit to nothing, and dont say more than you need to, but do give full disclosure, eg, explain that it is dangerous to enter a yard with strange dogs and to warn of that. I don't care if the neighbour gets torn to shreds, I just want me and my dogs to be safe at night.

But you are right - I will make it very short and sharp and ask him to respect my dogs and my property and stay away or my hand will be forced to press charges.

[dee lee]

I'm sorry you are going through this- I would hate it.

However, I prefer 16Paws letter and agree that it is risky putting in writing that your dog may be a threat to their safety.

Forget about whether your dog is liable if they jump the fence- If you piss them off for anything at all, then they have written proof that they can take to the council to put in a dangerous dog order.

They know you have a defensive dog- she has bailed them up before hasnt she?

Sorry if too personal, but if you find these men intimidating why are you the one dealing with this and not your husband?

Perhaps a quick chat by him may make them stop entering your yard?

Especially if somehow he lets slip he will be joining the police.

[ellz]

and the advice of my boss just now when he saw me shaking and upset after reading this thread, is that yes, obviously you admit to nothing, and dont say more than you need to, but do give full disclosure, eg, explain that it is dangerous to enter a yard with strange dogs and to warn of that.

And I don't mean to upset you and I'm sorry if I did so.

But what your boss has said is very true. Just don't be specific and leave your own dog out of it as much as you can. Give a warning about the dangers of strange dogs in general.

Unfortunately it seems to be a sign of the times that people just don't educate their children any more about how to approach dogs. I had it drummed into me and I've drummed it into my children as well.

[Nic oh lah]

I'm sorry you are going through this- I would hate it.

However, I prefer 16Paws letter and agree that it is risky putting in writing that your dog may be a threat to their safety.

Forget about whether your dog is liable if they jump the fence- If you piss them off for anything at all, then they have written proof that they can take to the council to put in a dangerous dog order.

They know you have a defensive dog- she has bailed them up before hasnt she?

Sorry if too personal, but if you find these men intimidating why are you the one dealing with this and not your husband?

Perhaps a quick chat by him may make them stop entering your yard?

Especially if somehow he lets slip he will be joining the police.

I guess because I tend to be the balls with these kind of things - he's a big softy, seriously, huge softy. He's done all his stuff for becoming an officer but decided to join in another area, contact centre work taking police reports, calls and triple-0 calls and stuff. He decided he couldn't point a gun at someone - i could have told him that. He honestly is the sweetest guy, but such a pussy, lol. I will ask him to come with me and chat to these people. I always tend to do anything that needs done, he's so supportive and devoted but hes such a freakin wimp. He's a consoler and a supporter, but not a doer. I wish he was sometimes and that I could just hide and have my man deal with stuff like this but its just not him.

[conztruct]

I'm not "flaming" you and I'm not saying you're a crap paralegal....you've thrown that into the equation yourself.

What I'm saying is that you are being very naive. The dealings that I have had with legal eagles over the years in dog-related situations have all emphasised one major thing..... ADMIT NOTHING and don't say anything more than you NEED to.

Disclosure is one thing, leaving yourself open to further issues is another thing altogether.

Take a step back and look at the situation as if you were advising somebody else on the same matter. You would probably deal with it very differently.

As I said, I would be dealing with the matter of trespass first and foremost. The dog situation is an incidental albeit real factor.

I'm sorry i'm getting all emotional and ridiculous. Its hard to step back when you're scared. I am being naive - I am naive! I've never had to deal with this before which Is why i'm asking advice from all of you. I bought my job into it as from a legal point of view my advice to others, and the advice of my boss just now when he saw me shaking and upset after reading this thread, is that yes, obviously you admit to nothing, and dont say more than you need to, but do give full disclosure, eg, explain that it is dangerous to enter a yard with strange dogs and to warn of that. I don't care if the neighbour gets torn to shreds, I just want me and my dogs to be safe at night.

But you are right - I will make it very short and sharp and ask him to respect my dogs and my property and stay away or my hand will be forced to press charges.

Not flaming you. I get where you're coming from - it's no reflection on your profession or anything else........

Whenever I write anything, I write loads and then keep cutting it back so it ends being a short, sharp communication that deals with the issue at hand. My first draft is always a rabbling mess way worse than anything you'd ever be able to produce - lol.

But seriously, the advice people are providing is good - just address the issue that they're entering your property without permission, you've previously asked them not to and you would like them to respect your wishes. If it was me, so you can take it or leave it, I wouldn't talk legal ramifications yet - you've already laid the foundation by an official request not to enter the property. In discussions with them, I wouldn't say anything about your dog being protective or anything like that (I mean in general discussion, not just in a letter) for the reasons everyone has stated. You just can't guarantee people won't misuse this against you and you don't need that issue to occur.

All the best with it and hope it gets sorted out without affecting your relationship with your neighbours (I applaude your desire to maintain the peace, but seriously they're not really respecting you much at the moment).

[mita]

Whenever I write anything, I write loads and then keep cutting it back so it ends being a short, sharp communication that deals with the issue at hand. My first draft is always a rabbling mess way worse than anything you'd ever be able to produce - lol.

But seriously, the advice people are providing is good - just address the issue that they're entering your property without permission, you've previously asked them not to and you would like them to respect your wishes. If it was me, so you can take it or leave it, I wouldn't talk legal ramifications yet - you've already laid the foundation by an official request not to enter the property. In discussions with them, I wouldn't say anything about your dog being protective or anything like that (I mean in general discussion, not just in a letter) for the reasons everyone has stated. You just can't guarantee people won't misuse this against you and you don't need that issue to occur.

All the best with it and hope it gets sorted out without affecting your relationship with your neighbours (I applaude your desire to maintain the peace, but seriously they're not really respecting you much at the moment).

My first drafts are exactly the same. In fact, it's a good idea to get it all out first, warts & all. Then sit back & cold-bloodedly cut it into shape, leaving out all the warts that could come back & bite! Just keep to short, clear info that's relevant to the matter.

So I totally agree with the advice you've given.

My best wishes to the OP, too....that this will lead to sorting the matter.

Edited March 9, 2010 by mita

[dee lee]

I'm sorry you are going through this- I would hate it.

Sorry if too personal, but if you find these men intimidating why are you the one dealing with this and not your husband?

Perhaps a quick chat by him may make them stop entering your yard?

Especially if somehow he lets slip he will be joining the police.

I guess because I tend to be the balls with these kind of things - he's a big softy, seriously, huge softy. He's done all his stuff for becoming an officer but decided to join in another area, contact centre work taking police reports, calls and triple-0 calls and stuff. He decided he couldn't point a gun at someone - i could have told him that. He honestly is the sweetest guy, but such a pussy, lol. I will ask him to come with me and chat to these people. I always tend to do anything that needs done, he's so supportive and devoted but hes such a freakin wimp. He's a consoler and a supporter, but not a doer. I wish he was sometimes and that I could just hide and have my man deal with stuff like this but its just not him.

Bugger.

I can empathise- my OH is somewhat like that, its always been me that goes off half cocked at the neighbours.

Oh well, maybe he can practice frowning and stand behind you as support.

[Rozzie]

I'm sorry you are going through this- I would hate it.

However, I prefer 16Paws letter and agree that it is risky putting in writing that your dog may be a threat to their safety.

Forget about whether your dog is liable if they jump the fence- If you piss them off for anything at all, then they have written proof that they can take to the council to put in a dangerous dog order.

They know you have a defensive dog- she has bailed them up before hasnt she?

Sorry if too personal, but if you find these men intimidating why are you the one dealing with this and not your husband?

Perhaps a quick chat by him may make them stop entering your yard?

Especially if somehow he lets slip he will be joining the police.

I guess because I tend to be the balls with these kind of things - he's a big softy, seriously, huge softy. He's done all his stuff for becoming an officer but decided to join in another area, contact centre work taking police reports, calls and triple-0 calls and stuff. He decided he couldn't point a gun at someone - i could have told him that. He honestly is the sweetest guy, but such a pussy, lol. I will ask him to come with me and chat to these people. I always tend to do anything that needs done, he's so supportive and devoted but hes such a freakin wimp. He's a consoler and a supporter, but not a doer. I wish he was sometimes and that I could just hide and have my man deal with stuff like this but its just not him.

Does he not have issues with them trespassing on your property?

[Diva]

But seriously, the advice people are providing is good - just address the issue that they're entering your property without permission, you've previously asked them not to and you would like them to respect your wishes. If it was me, so you can take it or leave it, I wouldn't talk legal ramifications yet - you've already laid the foundation by an official request not to enter the property. In discussions with them, I wouldn't say anything about your dog being protective or anything like that (I mean in general discussion, not just in a letter) for the reasons everyone has stated. You just can't guarantee people won't misuse this against you and you don't need that issue to occur.

I think this is sound advice, especially the part about not threatening legal action, save that for if you need to escalate. Try to assume as a starting point that they are stupid and just don't get it yet - be firm and very clear, but try not to sound angry, frightened or hostile. Good luck.

[Nic oh lah]

I'm sorry you are going through this- I would hate it.

However, I prefer 16Paws letter and agree that it is risky putting in writing that your dog may be a threat to their safety.

Forget about whether your dog is liable if they jump the fence- If you piss them off for anything at all, then they have written proof that they can take to the council to put in a dangerous dog order.

They know you have a defensive dog- she has bailed them up before hasnt she?

Sorry if too personal, but if you find these men intimidating why are you the one dealing with this and not your husband?

Perhaps a quick chat by him may make them stop entering your yard?

Especially if somehow he lets slip he will be joining the police.

I guess because I tend to be the balls with these kind of things - he's a big softy, seriously, huge softy. He's done all his stuff for becoming an officer but decided to join in another area, contact centre work taking police reports, calls and triple-0 calls and stuff. He decided he couldn't point a gun at someone - i could have told him that. He honestly is the sweetest guy, but such a pussy, lol. I will ask him to come with me and chat to these people. I always tend to do anything that needs done, he's so supportive and devoted but hes such a freakin wimp. He's a consoler and a supporter, but not a doer. I wish he was sometimes and that I could just hide and have my man deal with stuff like this but its just not him.

Does he not have issues with them trespassing on your property?

He does. He would love for me to deal with it! His main concern is not upsetting them and having neighbours ticked off at us. He's a lovely hubby but hes so freakin worried about upsetting people. Sigh.

[shapeshifter]

Don't know if anyone else has said it, can you use paragraphs, when reading that I tended to drift off as it all just bled into each other.

[Nic oh lah]

Don't know if anyone else has said it, can you use paragraphs, when reading that I tended to drift off as it all just bled into each other.

Hehe - yep - i did use paragraphs when I typed it into word, they were lost in the copy and paste.

[Rain]

I didn't read the entire letter either (I'm guessing your neighbour wouldn't either) but I thought your were setting yourself up a bit, your description of the dog's behaviour could be seen as aggression (here come's the local council with their dangerous dog wand) and you are much to apologetic for something you don't need to be sorry for.

Regardless of whether you have a dog, a guard rabbit or a garden gnome with an angry expression on it's face - your neighbours and any other member of the public have no right to breach your fence to enter your property.

Keep the letter short and formal, it doesn't have to be mean but if you want legal security it needs to be clear.

Hi Neighbour,

We have verbally requested on two prior occasions that you refrain from entering our backyard to collect tennis balls – requests which you ignored. On legal advice we are providing you this written advice to inform you not to enter our back yard for any reason without our consent. If you continue to ignore our request we will consider pressing trespassing charges.

Please respect our desire for privacy and personal security. We are more than happy to retrieve lost items for you if you knock at our front door/phone, etc.

Yours sincerely,

Neighbour

I like this letter, Good luck with your neighbour.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Rain