Opinions Please On Letter To Our Neighbour

[Nic oh lah]

Background - Stupid neighbour has jumped into our yard after a tennis ball for the 2nd time last night and AGAIN narrowly avoided being part of Sophie's balanced diet.

Contacted Police to make sure if we hadn't been home and it happens again we or our dogs arent responsible. They said send them a letter signed by us and a JP being written advice and then if it happens again we can charge them for trespassing.

Opinions please on the letter I have drafted! I want to still be freindly with the neighbours, I want them to get the point, but still be cool about it??? Please let me know what you think.

Just regarding people entering our yard, the first time someone came into our yard to get a ball we asked that if you need a ball retrieved from the yard please knock on the front door, don’t enter our yard. We are concerned that someone has trespassed into our yard a second time last night, and luckily we were home and noticed. You may not have heard it, but our German Sheperd, when she came to me when called was growling and very territorial. Due to the fact that we are concerned for the safety of people entering our yard and ramifications on us or our dogs should an attack resulting in injury occur, we just want to remind you that to enter our property without our permission and supervision is illegal and dangerous. We don’t want to be horrid people or anything, we just don’t want anyone to be hurt. Please, please do not enter our yard without us present – just knock on the door when we’re home or slip a note in the mailbox asking us to toss back your ball – be prepared though that any ball over our fence may be chewed to oblivion before we get it. If it happens again we’ve been advised by the Police to press charges for trespassing. We obviously really don’t want it to come to that but having already asked that no one enter our yard the first time someone jumped in, and having it happen for a second time last night, we are concerned for the safety of people entering our yard, and for the wellbeing of our dogs and ourselves.

Sorry to have to send this letter but we just want to be 100% clear that we’ve asked you and your guests not to enter our yard – hopefully it won’t happen again and we can all forget about it and move on but as i’m sure you can understand we have to cover ourselves and our dogs to ensure that should anyone enter our yard illegally and they be hurt we have provided adequate warning.

Thanks so much – seriously hope there’s no hard feelings – we’re lucky to have such good neighbours, we just don’t want to have anyone get hurt and have to cover ourselves.

[ellz]

Personally I think I'd be paying a visit to the local community legal advice service and ask them to help draft the letter.

I have NO idea what to say, but I do think that to specifically put so much emphasis on the possibility of them being bitten/hurt could be opening yourself up to litigation even if they are trespassing.

That is why it is not recommended that people use "dangerous dog" signs but signs more along the line of "please shut the gate, dog at large" etc.

I may be wrong (probably am) but it just sounds like one of those situations where you really have to tread a very careful path.

[dwynwen]

I'd make it way shorter.

along the lines of "Please do not enter our property. Please contact us to retrieve balls etc by knocking at the front door or phoning xxxxxx, regards, Your Neighbour"

[Erny]

Without reading through the whole letter (in the midst of something else just atm) I would suggest that you DON'T make reference to your dog being territorial; growling etc. There i no need to justify why you don't want people trespassing, IMO. Perhaps instead you might put in simply that their trespass disturbs the members of your family and your dog (or leave out reference to the dog altogether).

But hang on a minute ..... there was a discussion ages ago about the "dog warning" signs. I think it was Jeff (DOL member) (not sure) who mentioned that if someone is told what could happen and that person still, knowingly, continues to do what they did, then there is NO argument against the dog. Something along those lines ...................

Check on this point first, before you finalise your letter.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Erny

[Drumbeat]

Personally I think I'd be paying a visit to the local community legal advice service and ask them to help draft the letter.

I have NO idea what to say, but I do think that to specifically put so much emphasis on the possibility of them being bitten/hurt could be opening yourself up to litigation even if they are trespassing.

That is why it is not recommended that people use "dangerous dog" signs but signs more along the line of "please shut the gate, dog at large" etc.

I may be wrong (probably am) but it just sounds like one of those situations where you really have to tread a very careful path.

Agree with Ellz

[kiwioz]

I think you've got a nice tone and your point is clear, but its a little long and repetitive. Good luck!

[Ravyk]

I think it is too friendly in my opinion. I agree with ellz, go to the local community legal advice service and get help drafting it.

If the letter is too friendly, they will not take it seriously at all.

[Kirislin]

I'd make it way shorter.

along the lines of "Please do not enter our property. Please contact us to retrieve balls etc by knocking at the front door or phoning xxxxxx, regards, Your Neighbour"

I think something more along the lines above is better, brief, polite, to the point. Dont say anything about the dog being territorial, it might be leaving yourself open to blame if they get attacked. good luck

Edited March 9, 2010 by Kirislin

[Erny]

Dont say anything about the dog being territorial, it might be leaving yourself open to blame if they get attacked. good luck

This is the point that was argued (against) here on DOL a while back (refer my earlier post).

Another thought, though, is to perhaps ring your insurance company and ask if they have any advice on this.

[ellz]

I don't recall the thread Erny but I am aware of a case here in Tasmania (maybe the laws are different) where an intruder broke into somebody's home and was bitten by their dog and the homeowner WAS successfully sued for having a dangerous dog and advertising the fact with a "Beware Vicious Dog" sign on their gates.

They did appeal and the penalty was reduced substantially but the magistrate did warn about the wording of certain signage and the use of those signs in a residential setting.

[Nic oh lah]

In regards to the legal advice - i'm a Paralegal so operate in law for a living, and legally this covers my ass which is my main point. I'm trying to make it really "i'm worried for your safety" but i'm more concerned about mine and my dogs.

And inregards to inferring that she's dangerous - i've spoken to the Police about it who have agreed with my opinion from a legal point of view, which is that I have given them full discloure, so they are now responsible for their actions. I will cut the point about growling though and try to shorten it, but they need to be told. I want to chat to them too to keep it freindly so i might make the letter really short and to the point as some of you suggested

"Entering our property is trespassing and could be dangerous due to our dogs - please do not enter again. If you need something from our yard please knock on the door or leave us a note in the letterbox if we're not home. Thanks - Nic."

And then i'll chat to him and explain that he's been lucky thus far and sophie will defend herself, and let him know that i have spoke to the police about it to make sure we're looked after and that they need to stay away.

[ellz]

Well....I'm sorry and I don't mean to criticise, but the original letter you wrote doesn't sound at ALL professional and personally, I'd be getting more specific legal advice before I sent it as is, regardless what the police say.

Editing to add: And I would still be leaving out the "dangerous due to our dogs" bit. The fact that it is trespassing should be deterrent enough. You can elaborate further on the point when you speak to them perhaps?

Edited March 9, 2010 by ellz

[Keshwar]

I don't recall the thread Erny but I am aware of a case here in Tasmania (maybe the laws are different) where an intruder broke into somebody's home and was bitten by their dog and the homeowner WAS successfully sued for having a dangerous dog and advertising the fact with a "Beware Vicious Dog" sign on their gates.

They did appeal and the penalty was reduced substantially but the magistrate did warn about the wording of certain signage and the use of those signs in a residential setting.

Do you have a reference to this case?

[conztruct]

Personally I think I'd be paying a visit to the local community legal advice service and ask them to help draft the letter.

I have NO idea what to say, but I do think that to specifically put so much emphasis on the possibility of them being bitten/hurt could be opening yourself up to litigation even if they are trespassing.

That is why it is not recommended that people use "dangerous dog" signs but signs more along the line of "please shut the gate, dog at large" etc.

I may be wrong (probably am) but it just sounds like one of those situations where you really have to tread a very careful path.

I totally agree with Ellz. The issue here is that you've asked them not to enter the property and they've ignored it, so that's all that needs to be said. I'd send them a short, brief letter just stating that as you have previously asked, would they please not enter your property unless they have contacted you and been given permission - it's not rude.... If you also want to put a sign up, make it something like "No Entry unless authorised by owner". Definately no reference to your dog.

[Kelly_Louise]

Waaaay too much information... and you are leaving yourself very exposed with the references to your dog. I would NEVER write anything about her behaviour or their safety around her.

Agree, you don't need to state a reason. I would shorten it and make it very factual. That after the first incident, you verbally requested that your neighbours and their guests do not enter your premises again. It then happened a second time, you have notified police and been asked to make the request official and in writing, so that if it is ignored and continues, legal proceedings can commence. You could also reinforce the procedure they should follow should something of theirs come over the fence (ie, knock on the door, letter in the box or under the door). There are a million reasons that you don't want people entering your yard... if they hurt themselves jumping the fence, if they trip in your yard - that's your liability, OR if they try to steal things from your yard (not saying your neighbours would do that but you don't know the guests they invite to their homes)... It's also a matter of invading people's privacy I feel, and it's very rude. Whether you want to put a simple reminder in there that you DO in fact, have a dog in your yard - but just as a reminder, no other details about her behaviour etc are necessary.

I can't stand people that do this... just assume that they have the right to come and go in your yard as they please - ESPECIALLY when they know you have a dog (and ANY dog will be territorial and protective of it's area). How old are these people?

You can add a nice note at the end saying that you're sorry you have to do this, but feel it is the only way to ensure that this behaviour doesn't continue anymore - and that you hope they understand and it can be rectified and move on from it.

[16Paws]

I didn't read the entire letter either (I'm guessing your neighbour wouldn't either) but I thought your were setting yourself up a bit, your description of the dog's behaviour could be seen as aggression (here come's the local council with their dangerous dog wand) and you are much to apologetic for something you don't need to be sorry for.

Regardless of whether you have a dog, a guard rabbit or a garden gnome with an angry expression on it's face - your neighbours and any other member of the public have no right to breach your fence to enter your property.

Keep the letter short and formal, it doesn't have to be mean but if you want legal security it needs to be clear.

Hi Neighbour,

We have verbally requested on two prior occasions that you refrain from entering our backyard to collect tennis balls – requests which you ignored. On legal advice we are providing you this written advice to inform you not to enter our back yard for any reason without our consent. If you continue to ignore our request we will consider pressing trespassing charges.

Please respect our desire for privacy and personal security. We are more than happy to retrieve lost items for you if you knock at our front door/phone, etc.

Yours sincerely,

Neighbour

Edited March 9, 2010 by 16Paws

[Nic oh lah]

OK, you're entitled to your opinion. And no it doesn't sound professional as i'm not writing a formal legal letter, i'm writing a note to the neighbours thats freindly but covering my ass. You say you "don't mean to criticise" and i'm the person to give "specific legal advice" so i'm not engaging an independant solicitor, for goodness sakes. I just wanted some opinions here from the point of view of "am i being too harsh / not harsh enough" from other dog owners who could imagine themselves in my situation - i'm not asking for a work evaluation - so really I find it a bit annoying that you would suggest i'm unprofessinal and not qualified to write my own letter. And if I was sitting down to write a legal letter of demand and instruction I wouldn't be coming to DOL for advice on it!

Agreed with the "dangerous due to dogs" being left out- honestly, i want to scare them off at the end of the day as i'm upset with strange men coming into my yard in the night, they could be staring in my lowset bedroom window when my hubby is on nightshift for all i know, and it wouldnt be hard for them to get through a screen window or something - they're rough as guts and i'm not wanting to get them offside, but i dont feel safe with them entering my yard. I shouldnt have to be scared for my safety or that of my dogs in my own home.

[Kelly_Louise]

The police may have agreed with you etc... but do you have any records of it? Do they have any records of it? In other words, if it were to happen again and you went to the police - would they definitely have something on file to prove that all this is so and that you did in fact make a complaint.... a statement... a report... copies of letters etc?

I made a complaint about my neighbours to the police... the NEXT DAY when I called them about some further disturbances - they had no record of anything.

Without any disrespect to the police - there are some very lazy ones who will tell you what you want to hear just to get rid of your minor issues. I got told that the police can't do anything, because it would only make them worse so just let them go and deal with it...

[LDR]

Hi Neighbour,

We have verbally requested on two prior occasions that you refrain from entering our backyard to collect tennis balls – requests which you ignored. On legal advice we are providing you this written advice to inform you not to enter our back yard for any reason without our consent. If you continue to ignore our request we will consider pressing trespassing charges.

Please respect our desire for privacy and personal security. We are more than happy to retrieve lost items for you if you knock at our front door/phone, etc.

Yours sincerely,

Neighbour

I like this - takes the dog factor out of the equation. Regardless of if I had a dog or not there is NO way I'd want my neighbours in my backyard! That's just rude.

[ellz]

I don't recall the thread Erny but I am aware of a case here in Tasmania (maybe the laws are different) where an intruder broke into somebody's home and was bitten by their dog and the homeowner WAS successfully sued for having a dangerous dog and advertising the fact with a "Beware Vicious Dog" sign on their gates.

They did appeal and the penalty was reduced substantially but the magistrate did warn about the wording of certain signage and the use of those signs in a residential setting.

Do you have a reference to this case?

No, it was a friend who went through it. And coincidentally, a friend who had a GSD.