Do You Have To Be Hard...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Sparked by a sub-thread in the Congrats and Criticisms thread. I know I've heard people say of a newbie "they won't survive, not hard enough".

What do you think?

Also, what does "hard" mean in practice?

[TeamSnag]

I have been showing for 3 years and its been great.. i have come past a couple of nastys in my time, but i just simply move away from them.. But again thats when i first started.. I do think yes u have to be thick skin as theres some really nasty ppl out there.. .. And i was told one thing by someone and it has never left my head and that was.. never leave your dog alone! With friends yes.. but not alone! U just never know what someone might do to your dog

But on the upside iv met some wonderful ppl who are willing to help and give advice...

Maybe they mean hard as in it isnt easy work.. u do have to work hard...

Edited March 7, 2010 by TeamSnag

[kelpiesrule]

I dont think they need to be hard, but I think they need to be aware what is going on around them and to not take too much of the dog show world seriously. They cannot expect it all to be handed to them on a silver platter and must realise that those much more experienced people were once newbies too. Ive been very lucky, in Group 5 we have a fantastic bunch of people and it is easier to concentrate on the good of showing when you have great friends and mentors. I have more friends since showing dogs than I have ever had in my entire life. There are so many wonderful people in the dog world, dont let the few nasties win

[poodlefan]

I think you don't need to be "hard" but you do need to be "tough".

"Hard" to me suggests lack of feeling. "Tough" means being able to deal with your feelings and with the actions of others.

Showing is a competition in which, for the most part, the reasons for winning and losing are not readily apparent to those competing. Personally I think the lack of publication of decisions accounts for many of the accusations of politics and face judging.

Yeah, it's wonderful to win. But for a new person who may only be showing one dog, it's disappointing to lose and depressing to be dumped. You have to be able to cope with that without turning toxic and deciding that it s some sort of personal conspiracy against you.

How do you do that? By finding other things to enjoy about the sport - the company of like minded dog tragics, your friends doing well and the chance to learn so much about dogs. You also need sufficient emotional stability to realise that you are not your dog and that your dog being dumped isn't a personal slight on your character.

I consider myself to be very much a newbie. Howard is my second show dog only and we've been in the ring not much over a year. I see other new folk get very bent out of shape about not winning and they'll look for excuses in every direction except down the lead and in the mirror. I find the whining of new folk on lists and in person about being hard done by to be far too frequent and a bit pathetic. Yes, some competitors are arseholes and some judges appear to be off with the pixies but bleating about it accomplishes nothing. If all you do is lose, then there's a probably a reason why that has nothing to do with who you are. The challenge is to find it.

When Howard loses, I try to figure out objectively what the other dog/s have that he doesn't. I dont' always agree with the decision but I'm learning to understand WHY it is made. Frankly I think face judging isn't as common as many like to think. Objectively dogs have different strengths and weaknesses. Looking at dogs and evaluating that is what gives you a better eye. You may not want what wins at the moment but you may understand why it happens. I love my dog, I understand (I think) his faults but I believe he warrants the title of Champion. That, the company of friends and the chance to see so many great dogs, is what sees me out there.

If you're not tough enough to objectively look at your dog and your handling for many of the reasons why you don't do well on a particular day then I think the sport is not for you. Great handlers with wonderful dogs all started somewhere, and they worked hard to get where they are. Certain types in certain breeds also do better and understanding that can help. If you believe in your dog that's what matters.

Some may be lucky enough to have their first show dog become a GR CH. Many are not. Only those who genuinely enjoy the sport will stick it out if success does not come easily or quickly.

Edited March 7, 2010 by poodlefan

[SkySoaringMagpie]

"Hard" to me suggests lack of feeling. "Tough" means being able to deal with your feelings and with the actions of others.

I have been searching about in my head for a word that means "able to put things into perspective, recognise and manage one's emotions, let the rubbish bounce off, climb a steep learning curve cheerfully and formulate and follow a plan to succeed". I can't think of anything snappy to encapsulate that.

I'm not sure tough is quite it as you don't get a sense of the brain game required, but as I mentioned on OzShow the other day, I do think a good mentor in sports pyschology or a mentor that can refer a newbie on to a good book on it is pretty important. Once you understand the game of any game, not just dog showing, it all becomes a lot easier to deal with.

That said, I try to cut people a bit of slack, particularly in that first 2 hours after a difficult show, and I hope they do that for me too. For me it's not a problem that someone is disappointed about the fact the judge didn't like their dog. It becomes a problem if, as you say, they start personalising it. One thing you can say about what you experience as a n00b, it's pretty much never personal!! That comes later...

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I see other new folk get very bent out of shape about not winning and they'll look for excuses in every direction except down the lead and in the mirror.

Also meant to say, this is certainly not just true of new folk.

The new person at least has the advantage that with the right intervention by the right people, they'll get a clue. Once kennel blindness sets in I think the problem is much harder to budge.

[kinsella]

I have been in and out of the ring for the past 15 years. Never overly competitive and my previous dogs were not really show dogs. I think honesty with yourself is the first requirement. Are you prepared to lose with good grace and, as important, win with good grace? Maybe hard isn't quite the right word but it's pretty close. As poodlefan says, it's not personal and I think too many people are losing sight of the reason we show dogs at all. To me, a show is the best way to keep raising the quality of dogs being bred as very few breeders will take a dog of their breeding to a show when it is not a good example of the breed. I often get more pleasure from a nice comment from my peers than the result in the ring.

Perspective is everything. Enjoying your dogs is everything. Laughing with old and new friends is an added bonus.

Edited for crappy spelling

Edited March 7, 2010 by IW4ME

[whippets]

I wouldn't say "hard" but thick skinned... yes. There are a few nasty pasties around. I don't care what they say or think either.

Their are morons in all walks of life and more so when competition is involved.

[peaceful]

"Hard" to me suggests lack of feeling. "Tough" means being able to deal with your feelings and with the actions of others.

I have been searching about in my head for a word that means "able to put things into perspective, recognise and manage one's emotions, let the rubbish bounce off, climb a steep learning curve cheerfully and formulate and follow a plan to succeed". I can't think of anything snappy to encapsulate that.

How about "Resilience" and maybe even "mental fortitude" ???????

[Sandra777]

Mentally resilient (just plain mental some days helps) and able to bounce back from disappointment.

But most of all - remember why you got a dog in the first place. Was it so you could win ribbons (in which case you should have bought something inanimate) or so you could enjoy the company of the dog

Even after 30 years of showing I still get so much more pleasure out of watching the dogs be nutty at home and cuddling with them on the couch in the evening than any of the ribbons and accolades they have won.

The bitch I remember most fondly and still miss most bitterly was never more than average in the show ring.

ETA: You can generally spot the newbie that won't last, but generally it's because they come in with unrealisitic expectations and after they've been to two shows start whinging about how the judge knows nothing. Yep, with an attitude like that you'll stand the competition for about three weeks.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Sandra777

[Havasneeze]

I wouldn't say "hard" but thick skinned... yes. There are a few nasty pasties around. I don't care what they say or think either.

Their are morons in all walks of life and more so when competition is involved.

Showing dogs is like playing competitive sport. There's always one in every crowd that want to spoil it for the rest. Unfortunately when we show dogs, as said previously, it isn't us being judged but the little mutt on the end of the lead (supposedly). I liken showing dogs to parents watching their kids play in sporting competitions. You get the good one's and geeze, you get the bad one's too. Some people speak with their emotions and don't care about others feelings. Some people see dog showing for what it is, a bit of fun and if you happen to do well, that's icing on the cake. We can't always be winners (even though it would be nice if we could).

To me, this is a good example of how far people are prepared to go to get a win up. Last year at Erskine Park, for a bit of fun, one of the shows had an egg and spoon race. Each group had a race then the group winners had a run off to determine the best of the best egg and spoon racer. A bit of fun, you might say, I certainly thought so. Something to lighten the mood and to show that we CAN have fun at a dog show. Alas, as I said above, there's always one in every crowd that just have to take it too far. One of the competitors chose to use blue tack to stick their egg (tennis ball) to the spoon. They were eventually found out, but not before they had spoilt some other competitors fun. I just shook my head and giggled, I thought it rather amusing that someone needed to win that bad that they needed to cheat in an egg and spoon race but I can also see the other side of the coin and also find it very sad...

So in closing I would like to say, let's get out there and have some fun. If we win, that's fantastic and if not, there's always the next show and don't forget my favourite saying, One day a rooster, next day a feather duster

[SkySoaringMagpie]

How about "Resilience"

Ooh, good word! I notice Sandra also suggested it.

[dog geek]

Hey - can we pin this thread??

Not quite now; there are sure to be other wonderful insights to vome.

But it has some EXTREMELY relevant opinions, and I think would be jolly useful for not only newbies but for those who are feeling a bit... resilient-less

[whippets]

The old ladies that "show" cakes. I still havn't decided if I will visit the fruit cake competition at the royal this year. I still have nightmares about the cake ladies from a few years back .

[angelsun]

Tolerant is another word I like to use in this game...tolerant of the politics, tolerant of both winners and losers (cause bad winners are just as annoying as bad losers IMO!) tolerant of the conditions that sometimes we get thrown at us and tolerant of the attitude that non dog/show folks tend to have when we explain our weekend events.

Thick skinned is a good term as well. I totally agree with those that have said to not take this game too seriously...that's probably the biggest tip a person can give or listen to!

[Faolmor]

I think you need to be prepared, to thrive in the show world.

Prepared to accept that when you're new, this shows when you enter the ring and don't give your dog's best.

Prepared to accept you always have something to learn, whether you're new or not.

Prepared to accept that sometimes, you might lose even if YOU think you have the better dog.

Prepared to accept that sometimes, you might lose even if the judge thinks you have the better dog.

Prepared to accept that some people take it harder than you do.

Prepared to accept that some people take it more seriously than you do.

Prepared to accept that not all losses are personal.

Prepared to accept that some losses ARE political.

Prepared to have fun.

Prepared to meet new people and to learn from them.

Prepared to see some beautiful examples of the breed, even if you don't own them.

Prepared to admit that their dog is better than yours - for now.

Prepared to accept that some judges just won't like your dog.

Prepared to accept that some judges will LOVE your dog, but that doesn't automatically mean you'll win next week. Or even under them again.

ETA: Forgot to add - prepared to wait. Your dog might take 3-4 years to be at their best. Or you might need to wait for a better dog.

Prepared to lose.

Prepared to get over it.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Faolmor

[poodlefan]

"Hard" to me suggests lack of feeling. "Tough" means being able to deal with your feelings and with the actions of others.

I have been searching about in my head for a word that means "able to put things into perspective, recognise and manage one's emotions, let the rubbish bounce off, climb a steep learning curve cheerfully and formulate and follow a plan to succeed". I can't think of anything snappy to encapsulate that.

How about "Resilience" and maybe even "mental fortitude" ???????

I was about to post "resilient". I value it above all else in a dog sports dog. Seems we should value it equally in dog sports competitors.

SSM I agree with you about some of the worst tanties coming from those experienced enought to know better. Maybe its their way of coping but it's hardly a very socially acceptable one.

Edited March 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[-Megz-]

I'm a great "ignorer"

[Dogsfevr]

I have been showing for 25 yrs & maybe i deal with it differently.

I see the tainties no different than the morons on the road he cut you off or dont follow the rules,the same as the crazy shopper with the trolley who rams through without thinking ,the people who get drunk & ruin your event & the list goes on.

These same people are everywhere & will have issues whether it be at shows or general life.

I can certainly say the offenders i now are the same everywhere not just shows.

What i have found in the last 10/15 is new comers expecting so much like there owed.

They seem to forget that we all started from scratch & when we started we didnt have show classes,easy internet access,people didnt help back then like now or in our case a breed not well known so help was very hard to come by.

We did have people who helped within reason but by the same token we are a believer in educating yourself.

We have to help ourselves first to gain respect off others.

I help alot of people now whether it be handling & grooming & some flourish others you start to bang your head against the wall as they make no effort to learn but plenty of whinging but you keep assisting with an open mind .

When we started we paid a fortune for a VHS camera & we videoed & videoed & watched & watched & learnt from our mistakes.

These days for you can buy cameras so cheap & its the best tool around for honesty.

We have video friends who whinged & complained about losing BUT couldnt accept what they where doing was contributing or that the dog had obvious faults.After viewing the penny dropped although a small few will still be blind to what they see

I dont think you need to be thick skin you simply need to be realistic & honest.You need to appreciate the opposition & also appreciate what some judges look for.I have bombed out big time BUT having watched how.what the judge was looking for could see the pattern of what they wanted & had no issues losing after all we dont always win

People are there worst enemies & many out there dont see there own actions but are always ready to fault others

[pebbles]

I've been in this crazy dog world for over 50 years and still enjoy the day/s with friends and dogs as I did when I started out. I have made some life long friends, know a lot of nice people, have a lot of 'nodding' acquaintances, hopefully no enemies (that I know of) and totally ignore any rotten things said.