5 Month Kelpie Siblings F&m Aok, ?need To Panic?

[sallyandtex]

Hi,

We (family of 4, 2 Kids 11/12yrs) adopted brother and sister kelpie from Animal rescue in Dec 09. They are now 5 months old.

Only ever had 1 dog before (staffy X), and weren't warned that taking 2 was difficult! (In fact the foster mum encouraged it! )

They went to puppy school, the trainer said the rescue was wrong to encourage to take 2, but by then it was too late.

Now, they are HARD work, but they have a pen that is bigger than most yards. They stay outside. They eat together in separate bowls, sleep together in a large old cubby house, and play ALOT together. I work from home so I can take them for at least 1 walk per day.

I try to take them were there is limited other dogs, and take them off lead and they play "catch the sheep" with each other, taking turns biting each others ankles! This way they get to run themselves out.

I also try to take for separate walks and cuddles (although they are a bit too boistrous for that) occassionally, usually when I can get help from the family. They love people and other dogs.

They are really great together, but when we train them we separate them as otherwise they don't listen to us.

What I am really worried about, is that there is a huge amount of people on this forum, plus info on the web, that says WE ARE DOOMED

Is there anyone out there who can give us some good news that things will stay the same or evenimprove???? How can we pick one pup to put back in the rescue? Why should we do this if there are no problems? (Apart from the listening bit when playing)

Is there anyone who has SUCCESSFULLY raised siblings???

Please help. I am really confused. They are really lovely dogs.

Edited March 7, 2010 by sallyandtex

[persephone]

HI.

Briefly- you are not doomed, not really ,not yet ! You just need to make sure BOTH pups have good solid obedience training and controlled leash walks - with some free running time to play

Read up in the training threads here- and see what suggestions are given...

but trained separately is great- a couple times each day- give each one 5 or 10 minutes walking on lead - practise sitting, etc.

Training them more will mean you will have dogs who you can comfortably have inside.... and who can share your life a lot more.

At present, they sound as if they have limited human contact..and so, naturally they will be bonding with each other more.

IF you feel as if it is all a bit much handling two teenagers...maybe a session or two with a private trainer, at your house, would be a way of getting support and strategies?

If you need recommendations, I am sure someone here will give you a name ,or names

[sallyandtex]

HI.

Briefly- you are not doomed, not really ,not yet ! You just need to make sure BOTH pups have good solid obedience training and controlled leash walks - with some free running time to play

Read up in the training threads here- and see what suggestions are given...

but trained separately is great- a couple times each day- give each one 5 or 10 minutes walking on lead - practise sitting, etc.

Training them more will mean you will have dogs who you can comfortably have inside.... and who can share your life a lot more.

At present, they sound as if they have limited human contact..and so, naturally they will be bonding with each other more.

IF you feel as if it is all a bit much handling two teenagers...maybe a session or two with a private trainer, at your house, would be a way of getting support and strategies?

If you need recommendations, I am sure someone here will give you a name ,or names

Hey thanks for the quick reply!

We really try to have as much contact as possible, but they are going to be mainly outside, coming in for special times (separately),as Sally loves to roll in anything disgusting she can find (but she is learning Uh-Uh!)

Names of private trainer in Newcastle/lake Macquarie would be great thanks!

[lappiemum]

Don't worry too much - I have a male and female siblings, and we have 'survived' just fine My boy has recently gotten to his aust champ (and I'm a novice!) and my girl is doing well. We have added to our pack (now 2yrs old) with a new female at Christmas (destined for the ring) and we plan to have a litter sometime soon(ish) with hopes that there is something from that litter we will be able to keep.

So our house is doogy central (and no, we don't live on a property!) but we love it. Our neighbours still like us, but we do run a tight ship - dogs are walked seperately usually everyday, and they have been obedience and ring trained so will respond to commands (usually!!LOL). They are crated inside at night, and come inside when we are home. And yes, we have a 'working breed' - albeit more laid back than others - but they each have their own energy levels and certainly like zoomies as much as any other dog! So keep up with the training, and yes, do it seperately, but don't stress about having two - there's lots of good things about pairs!!

[sallyandtex]

Don't worry too much - I have a male and female siblings, and we have 'survived' just fine My boy has recently gotten to his aust champ (and I'm a novice!) and my girl is doing well. We have added to our pack (now 2yrs old) with a new female at Christmas (destined for the ring) and we plan to have a litter sometime soon(ish) with hopes that there is something from that litter we will be able to keep.

So our house is doogy central (and no, we don't live on a property!) but we love it. Our neighbours still like us, but we do run a tight ship - dogs are walked seperately usually everyday, and they have been obedience and ring trained so will respond to commands (usually!!LOL). They are crated inside at night, and come inside when we are home. And yes, we have a 'working breed' - albeit more laid back than others - but they each have their own energy levels and certainly like zoomies as much as any other dog! So keep up with the training, and yes, do it seperately, but don't stress about having two - there's lots of good things about pairs!!

Thankyou!

They are outside dogs at the moment. With the cold weather coming in a few months, should I "crate" them inside at night? I was thinking they would be OK sleeping in a spare room together. If I had to use a crate, would I lead them in and straight into a crate inside at bed-time? Will they know not to toilet inside by then? (As they used to pee/poop on grass)

Many thanks again

[Nekhbet]

Divide and conquer!

the only thing I would worry about is if they are outside only all the time dogs they will naturally bond to each other more. If I get new pups I separate them from the other dogs and have majority of their time spent one on one with me. They learn I am the source of all things good and hence all my dogs, even when I had 4 together, try and get my attention first over another dogs.

If you work from home why dont you rotate them. One with you am the other with you PM and then in the pen together for the rest of the evening/night. EVen if it's just hanging around you while you work you can do little obedience things with them in spare moments, keep a pocket full of treats.

[sallyandtex]

Divide and conquer!

the only thing I would worry about is if they are outside only all the time dogs they will naturally bond to each other more. If I get new pups I separate them from the other dogs and have majority of their time spent one on one with me. They learn I am the source of all things good and hence all my dogs, even when I had 4 together, try and get my attention first over another dogs.

If you work from home why dont you rotate them. One with you am the other with you PM and then in the pen together for the rest of the evening/night. EVen if it's just hanging around you while you work you can do little obedience things with them in spare moments, keep a pocket full of treats.

Great idea.

I will try it., might have to block off the view down to their enclosure!

Thanks everyone for your advice

[Jumabaar]

I raised three Kelpie siblings- One I couldnt sell and then mum wanted one boy and I had my heart set on the other!!

I have now seperated the boys (both entire and mum moved out anyway) but my boy and girl are more than happy to be left on thier own, go out together or just mix and match with my other dogs. They have always lived together but I made sure that I was the best thing for them. Triangle of Temptation at dinner time and LOTS and LOTS of treats for choosing to be with me rather than the other dogs. I have ended up with all of them loving to spend time with me and generally prefering me to the other dogs.

What are your intentions with them- do you want to do dog sports, just have them as pets/family members or something else?

Perhaps look into some obedience and alternate which dog you train each week.

Yes it is possible to raise siblings successfully- you just need to ensure that you are the leader of your little pack and that they regularly get time alone so they learn to cope well. I would also suggest focus work! This means getting them to watch you, ask permission for cuddles (ie a sit etc) and if you just have one dog out you can try being the sheep that they have to round up (bascially just a game of catch with them trying to follow you).

[sallyandtex]

I raised three Kelpie siblings- One I couldnt sell and then mum wanted one boy and I had my heart set on the other!!

I have now seperated the boys (both entire and mum moved out anyway) but my boy and girl are more than happy to be left on thier own, go out together or just mix and match with my other dogs. They have always lived together but I made sure that I was the best thing for them. Triangle of Temptation at dinner time and LOTS and LOTS of treats for choosing to be with me rather than the other dogs. I have ended up with all of them loving to spend time with me and generally prefering me to the other dogs.

What are your intentions with them- do you want to do dog sports, just have them as pets/family members or something else?

Perhaps look into some obedience and alternate which dog you train each week.

Yes it is possible to raise siblings successfully- you just need to ensure that you are the leader of your little pack and that they regularly get time alone so they learn to cope well. I would also suggest focus work! This means getting them to watch you, ask permission for cuddles (ie a sit etc) and if you just have one dog out you can try being the sheep that they have to round up (bascially just a game of catch with them trying to follow you).

Hey your doggy family sounds great!

I am going to have one around with me inside for a while and then rotate. I am a bit worried about house training while I am working!

They are pets mainly, and also Sally has showed her form at being a Centry, alerting to any intruders! (Tex is indifferent)

They are outside dogs, and seem to thrive on that, digging, chewing and playing games in their yard.

Well., off to choose 1 to be with me for a while! (Hope the other doesn't carry on too much!!!)

Cheers, K

P.S. They have had a great together walk this am already and usually have a rest right now.

[sallyandtex]

I raised three Kelpie siblings- One I couldnt sell and then mum wanted one boy and I had my heart set on the other!!

I have now seperated the boys (both entire and mum moved out anyway) but my boy and girl are more than happy to be left on thier own, go out together or just mix and match with my other dogs. They have always lived together but I made sure that I was the best thing for them. Triangle of Temptation at dinner time and LOTS and LOTS of treats for choosing to be with me rather than the other dogs. I have ended up with all of them loving to spend time with me and generally prefering me to the other dogs.

What are your intentions with them- do you want to do dog sports, just have them as pets/family members or something else?

Perhaps look into some obedience and alternate which dog you train each week.

Yes it is possible to raise siblings successfully- you just need to ensure that you are the leader of your little pack and that they regularly get time alone so they learn to cope well. I would also suggest focus work! This means getting them to watch you, ask permission for cuddles (ie a sit etc) and if you just have one dog out you can try being the sheep that they have to round up (bascially just a game of catch with them trying to follow you).

Hey your doggy family sounds great!

I am going to have one around with me inside for a while and then rotate. I am a bit worried about house training while I am working!

They are pets mainly, and also Sally has showed her form at being a Centry, alerting to any intruders! (Tex is indifferent)

They are outside dogs, and seem to thrive on that, digging, chewing and playing games in their yard.

Well., off to choose 1 to be with me for a while! (Hope the other doesn't carry on too much!!!)

Cheers, K

P.S. They have had a great together walk this am already and usually have a rest right now.

Well., predictably, Tex is crying out there, usually when they are separated there is another family member to amuse them!

How long should I listen?

Sally has settled in her "good" bed, but is getting up now and then for a wander.

Oh crumbs she won't settle...happy to do a few training tricks and follow me out to hang the washing, sees her wimpering brother, no worries for her!

Wee wee in the bathroom (luckily).

Back to the yard now after 1 hour.

Kisses all round.

Both settled for a sleep

Tex's turn this PM.

I've gpt work

Edited March 8, 2010 by sallyandtex

[Jigsaw]

Did you give Tex anything to occupy himself with while he's separated? A treat ball, kong or bone? He'll probably whinge for a while as this is new to him, he should settle in a little while. Sometimes it gets worse before it gets better, but be strong and hold out from going out to him while he's making a fuss. Take the opportunity to do a little training with Sally as you have the opportunity to have her undivided attention!

I'm in the Lake Macquarie area if you want any extra help. Have sent a pm.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

ignore the crying forever!!!! do not go out until he is quiet then praise him.

if you go out when he cries then in his mind the cryiong did the job and brought you out so he will keep doing it cause it worked.

[sallyandtex]

ignore the crying forever!!!! do not go out until he is quiet then praise him.

if you go out when he cries then in his mind the cryiong did the job and brought you out so he will keep doing it cause it worked.

Makes sense! Like controlled crying with the babies!

He did sort of settle after a while.

Yes, Jigsaw, he hadhis plastic bottle with dry inside (usually loves that), but maybe since he had breakky not that long before, he wasn't interested. might get some pigs ears (yuk) they really seem to go those!

[Nekhbet]

yup ignore they crying completely, dont even look at him. They have to learn to be separate otherwise you will have a hell of a time later if one has to go to the vet etc and the other will scream or tear the house. Feed the alone one out of a toy when the other comes in the house. They will have to pay attention to what you have given them when they get hungry enough

yes it's hard work, but it will work in the end If you have kids, they're basically the same. the more you give in the harder they get down the track so put your foot down when its something you really dont want to perpetuate