Lab With Lymphoma Starting Chemo

[halledaisy]

Hi all. My dog Halle was diagnosed with Lymphoma a few weeks ago (thanks to those who responded with such kind words to my original post) and she starts her chemo today. We have opted with the 5 treatments over 4 months rather than the more agressive treatment both due to cost and the stress on Halle with the extra treatments. I am wanting to now feed her a home made (we can't afford the Hills tin food) low carb, high protein and fat diet and am after some advice. She is a 30kg lab, does anyone have a list of the best foods I should give her? I am planning to give her a mixture of chicken necks, lamb necks, etc and a home cooked batch with chicken/beef or lamb and some vegies, eggs and cottage cheese. Please let me know if anyone has an idea of quantities, and additions or also if anyone knows of a really good very low carb, high protein and fat dry food. Thanks again to all.

[labsrule]

Hi all. My dog Halle was diagnosed with Lymphoma a few weeks ago (thanks to those who responded with such kind words to my original post) and she starts her chemo today. We have opted with the 5 treatments over 4 months rather than the more agressive treatment both due to cost and the stress on Halle with the extra treatments. I am wanting to now feed her a home made (we can't afford the Hills tin food) low carb, high protein and fat diet and am after some advice. She is a 30kg lab, does anyone have a list of the best foods I should give her? I am planning to give her a mixture of chicken necks, lamb necks, etc and a home cooked batch with chicken/beef or lamb and some vegies, eggs and cottage cheese. Please let me know if anyone has an idea of quantities, and additions or also if anyone knows of a really good very low carb, high protein and fat dry food. Thanks again to all.

Hi halledaisy - when my lab boy was undergoing chemo last year, I had him on a mixture of cooked food and dry food and best dry food I found that was low carb, high protein and fat was the Artemis Maximal Grain Free. I have attached a product info doc on this food that I created when I was doing research last year for my boy.

ARTEMIS_MAXIMAL_GRAIN_FREE_DRY_FOOD.doc

I have also attached a Homemade Cancer Diet Recipe that the Oncologist who was treating my boy sent me

HOMEMADE_CANCER_DIET_RECIPE.doc

Prior to getting cancer, my boy was feed about 60-70% raw and 30-40% dry food and I was advised by his Oncologist not to feed raw whilst he was undergoing chemo as she advised that there was a possibility of raw foods containing bugs which would under normal circumstances he could cope with, but not whilst undergoing chemo as his system was compromised enough and didn't want him potentially having to battle anything else on top of that. As it was, he did ok on his first couple of fornightly chemo treatments but then hit the wall on his 3rd treatment and I stopped it after his 4th treatment. He only had one more to go, with a total of 5, but it was knocking him around too much and I told his Oncologist from the outset, that I would stop the chemo when it was affecting his quality of life, which it unfortunately did

He was also being treated by a Holistic Vet who was recommended to me by his Oncologist and this Holistic Vet was absolutely wonderful and extremely supportive during an extremely difficult time and she was very careful in prescribing natural therapies/medicines that would not affect his chemo treatment.

Best wishes for Halle, I know only how well how stressful it can be :D and I hope your girl responds well to the chemo treatment :thumbsup:t . Is she being treated by an Oncologist or your vet?

Later today I will have a look thru other bits and pieces of Cancer food info I found when doing my research last year and attach them for you.

[halledaisy]

Hi Labsrule, thanks very much for the response. I'm sorry to hear about your dog, we have decided the same thing too though, I don't want Halle to be miserable. She vomitted a bit today, and is a bit down, but she was happy enough to go for a walk yesterday so hopefully all will be ok.

We are being treated by a specialist vet through our normal vet. I don't believe he is a registered oncologist, but seems to be fairly well known in Victoria as a really good specialist.

This may seem an obvious question, but I'll ask anyway- does no raw mean no bones as well? I've been giving cooked stuff, but also chicken necks and bones. I guess I should stop these! I think I found the Artemis food you talked about on a website yesterday so I might go and get some. It's worth a try anyway. Thanks again.

[labsrule]

Hi Labsrule, thanks very much for the response. I'm sorry to hear about your dog, we have decided the same thing too though, I don't want Halle to be miserable. She vomitted a bit today, and is a bit down, but she was happy enough to go for a walk yesterday so hopefully all will be ok.

We are being treated by a specialist vet through our normal vet. I don't believe he is a registered oncologist, but seems to be fairly well known in Victoria as a really good specialist.

This may seem an obvious question, but I'll ask anyway- does no raw mean no bones as well? I've been giving cooked stuff, but also chicken necks and bones. I guess I should stop these! I think I found the Artemis food you talked about on a website yesterday so I might go and get some. It's worth a try anyway. Thanks again.

Yes no raw means bones as well. This was the one thing that I found very hard as my beloved Fitzy just LOVED his bones and to not give him any was very difficult as I know how much he enjoyed them, but I took the Oncologist's advice as did want to do anything that could potentially cause any further complications for his system, as it was having to deal with enough as it was with the chemo .

I would certainly recommend getting the Artemis Maximal as I could not find any other "grain free", "low carb", "high protein & fat" dryfood in Australia apart from Artemis Maximal and you have probably discovered during your research that carbohydrates "feed the cancer" and grains are a no no.

Did they give you any medication to help Halle with vomitting/diarrhoea? Hope she is feeling better soon.

I have attached a couple more cancer diet related info sheets for you.

CANCER_DIET.doc

Dog_Cancer_Diet.doc

[feistylady]

Hugs to you both and your beloved dogs I sincerely hope you have happy outcomes.

I was wondering if you could explain the statement carbohydrates "feed the cancer" and grains are a no no. as i am new to all of this I am trying to gain as much info as I can.

[Staffyluv]

If you have a read through Ollie's thread here in the palliative care section there is a lot on his diet in there...

He had surgery with no clear margins and spread to lymph system, then aggressive chemo for 6 months and they still only gave him 12-18 months... He is still here more than 4 years since he was dxd...

He is also treated holistically - we have supplements from the holistic vet that complemented the chemo to help support his system while going through it... Chemo really does not do to dogs what it does to humans - they might get a bit flat for a day or so after (only sometimes) and it takes a bit longer for the hair to grow back where they shave it for the intravenous administration of the drugs...

Fresh (cooked) food is the best bet... Remove all cereals, grains, pasta, bread from diet... Veges like sweet potato, pumpkin, peas, zucchini, broccoli, carrot are all good fillers... Flax oil is a good supplement (a tablespoon over a couple of tablespoons of cottage cheese is a great treat)... meat wise, Ollie eats turkey, chicken, roo, beef, fresh tuna steaks and fresh salmon steaks (not very often for the last two as they are expensive but good for them and the tinned stuff will do fine if you can get them to eat it - he won't)... Ollie likes apples, watermelon, strawberries, carrots (sweeter stuff) as treats, so that is easy and he loves cheese... As cancer dogs should not have any raw foods, that includes bones so the only way to keep his teeth good is to buy commercial chews... I hate pigs ears - I have had to put my hand down his throat too many times to retrieve half chewed ones, so tend to use those dentabones or dentasticks - not ideal but better than nothing.. We have also just started to clean his teeth - he has his own toothbrush and we use baby colgate, not the dog stuff which he won't take too... While he was taking tablets all the time (and he still gets them occasionally) we used those carob buttons - dog treats as a reward because at one stage he was taking over 12 tablets a day... We also used to wrap the tablets in BBQ chicken... We found milk arrowroot biscuits really good on those days when he was off food - a couple every few weeks won't hurt the regime...

Supplement wise he has ester C powder in his water.. He took 1000mg a day of normal people chewable vit C tablets ( 2 x 500g) as vit C is a great tonic for dogs and a couple of times when he was really sick from catching some bug, the vet gave it to him via a drip and kept him in overnight and he bounced back like a loon... Fish oil tablets (chemist), Anti Ox, Lymphodran - these two from the holistic vet...

Who is your oncologist? just curious

Good luck with everything

[halledaisy]

If you have a read through Ollie's thread here in the palliative care section there is a lot on his diet in there...

He had surgery with no clear margins and spread to lymph system, then aggressive chemo for 6 months and they still only gave him 12-18 months... He is still here more than 4 years since he was dxd...

He is also treated holistically - we have supplements from the holistic vet that complemented the chemo to help support his system while going through it... Chemo really does not do to dogs what it does to humans - they might get a bit flat for a day or so after (only sometimes) and it takes a bit longer for the hair to grow back where they shave it for the intravenous administration of the drugs...

Fresh (cooked) food is the best bet... Remove all cereals, grains, pasta, bread from diet... Veges like sweet potato, pumpkin, peas, zucchini, broccoli, carrot are all good fillers... Flax oil is a good supplement (a tablespoon over a couple of tablespoons of cottage cheese is a great treat)... meat wise, Ollie eats turkey, chicken, roo, beef, fresh tuna steaks and fresh salmon steaks (not very often for the last two as they are expensive but good for them and the tinned stuff will do fine if you can get them to eat it - he won't)... Ollie likes apples, watermelon, strawberries, carrots (sweeter stuff) as treats, so that is easy and he loves cheese... As cancer dogs should not have any raw foods, that includes bones so the only way to keep his teeth good is to buy commercial chews... I hate pigs ears - I have had to put my hand down his throat too many times to retrieve half chewed ones, so tend to use those dentabones or dentasticks - not ideal but better than nothing.. We have also just started to clean his teeth - he has his own toothbrush and we use baby colgate, not the dog stuff which he won't take too... While he was taking tablets all the time (and he still gets them occasionally) we used those carob buttons - dog treats as a reward because at one stage he was taking over 12 tablets a day... We also used to wrap the tablets in BBQ chicken... We found milk arrowroot biscuits really good on those days when he was off food - a couple every few weeks won't hurt the regime...

Supplement wise he has ester C powder in his water.. He took 1000mg a day of normal people chewable vit C tablets ( 2 x 500g) as vit C is a great tonic for dogs and a couple of times when he was really sick from catching some bug, the vet gave it to him via a drip and kept him in overnight and he bounced back like a loon... Fish oil tablets (chemist), Anti Ox, Lymphodran - these two from the holistic vet...

Who is your oncologist? just curious

Good luck with everything

Hi Staffyluv,

Yes I have read all the threads about Ollie the both of you sound like you have had a very tough time, but are doing very well through it all. I hope we can be as strong as the two of you.

Our specialist is Harold Pook (we are actually in Vic- my post says Qld, I stuffed it up somehow in my registration).

Halle is not doing the best today, she has the runs pretty badly and since I have stopped the raw today, she doesn't want to eat anything else. I have been cooking her up beef and vegies mainly, but she wouldn't touch it today. She won't even eat cheese cubes. It is so hard when she is like this, I don't want her to be miserable. She did go for a walk this morning and enjoyed it, so she can't be too bad.

Did Ollie go off the food just after she had chemo? If yes, did it take long for her to get her appetite back? Thanks for the response, it is great to talk to other people who have been through the same thing and try to get some help.

[KristenLovesLabs]

Best of luck to your family and your beautiful dog Halle.

I'm scared I'll one day have to go through this and my thoughts are with you.

[Staffyluv]

Yep if ever he was down it was usually a day or two after chemo - off food, generally a bit flat.

Are you taking her temperature? You need to monitor it when they are on chemo to make sure they don't get an infection. We used to do temp checks twice a day (yes he hated it) and if his temp went up, I would do it again just to make sure and then monitor him more closely on those days.

You might want to offer some minced chicken or turkey with some mashed veg through it (pumpkin is really good, especially when they have the runs)...

As for the runs, this is another reason to check the temp because the runs can mean a slight infection in the digestive tract - not uncommon for chemo dogs either...

We did use bribery when he was sick with things like BBQ chicken (no fatty skin, don't want to upset the tummy more) and dry biscuits like milk arrowroot to entice him to eat when all else failed...

Ask the vet for a script for maxalon (antinausea drugs) - you can then get it filled at the chemist... Much cheaper than getting them from the vets... We get all of Ollie's meds apart from the thyroxine from the chemist now..

[halledaisy]

Yep if ever he was down it was usually a day or two after chemo - off food, generally a bit flat.

Are you taking her temperature? You need to monitor it when they are on chemo to make sure they don't get an infection. We used to do temp checks twice a day (yes he hated it) and if his temp went up, I would do it again just to make sure and then monitor him more closely on those days.

You might want to offer some minced chicken or turkey with some mashed veg through it (pumpkin is really good, especially when they have the runs)...

As for the runs, this is another reason to check the temp because the runs can mean a slight infection in the digestive tract - not uncommon for chemo dogs either...

We did use bribery when he was sick with things like BBQ chicken (no fatty skin, don't want to upset the tummy more) and dry biscuits like milk arrowroot to entice him to eat when all else failed...

Ask the vet for a script for maxalon (antinausea drugs) - you can then get it filled at the chemist... Much cheaper than getting them from the vets... We get all of Ollie's meds apart from the thyroxine from the chemist now..

Thanks Staffyluv. No, I'm not taking her temperature (I'll talk to the vet tomorrow), but she is now on antibiotics for the runs. I also got some special dry food today (I think it is called artemis grain free or something like that) and she ate that with no problems so far, so hopefully things are improving. I'd been giving her pumpkin, but I think she must have gone off the taste as that was what she wouldn't eat yesterday and today. Will try again in another few days. Do you think sardines and eggs would upset her more? She ate these this morning, but it may have made her worse I'm not sure. Thanks again.

[nell.m]

Hi Halledaisy, so sorry to hear your Halle has Lymphoma.

My darling dog Jasper was diagnosed with Lymphoma in March 2008. He underwent chemo and was in remission for 1 year. The chemo gave him great quality of life and during his remission he was the happiest I had ever seen. He had endless energy and was like a puppy again. Sure, the chemo caused him a few off days, always a day after treatment, but on the whole he was a very happy and pampered boy.

The vet told me they had never seen such a textbook case as Jasper's journey through chemo. Everything went according to plan and his blood levels were always high enough for the recommended dosage every treatment. I firmly believe this is due to the diet I fed him throughout this treatment. I followed the "cancer starving" diet, which is pretty much what has already been mentioned above. No cereals, and lots of omega oils.

Sadly at the end of September 2009 Jasper passed away. He declined in a matter of days and there was no real warning that it was the end.

To me chemo was the right choice- it gave him another year 1/2 of happiness and adventure and there was no prolonged suffering...

Hope that helps, you are always welcome to message me if you have any questions. Good luck.

Nell.

[nell.m]

Also forgot to mention, after Jasper's chemo finished, I took him to an animal naturopath. She perscribed him supplements to keep his immune system as high as possible. I do think this really helped his quality of life during remission. He was beaming with good health!

[Staffyluv]

Yep if ever he was down it was usually a day or two after chemo - off food, generally a bit flat.

Are you taking her temperature? You need to monitor it when they are on chemo to make sure they don't get an infection. We used to do temp checks twice a day (yes he hated it) and if his temp went up, I would do it again just to make sure and then monitor him more closely on those days.

You might want to offer some minced chicken or turkey with some mashed veg through it (pumpkin is really good, especially when they have the runs)...

As for the runs, this is another reason to check the temp because the runs can mean a slight infection in the digestive tract - not uncommon for chemo dogs either...

We did use bribery when he was sick with things like BBQ chicken (no fatty skin, don't want to upset the tummy more) and dry biscuits like milk arrowroot to entice him to eat when all else failed...

Ask the vet for a script for maxalon (antinausea drugs) - you can then get it filled at the chemist... Much cheaper than getting them from the vets... We get all of Ollie's meds apart from the thyroxine from the chemist now..

Thanks Staffyluv. No, I'm not taking her temperature (I'll talk to the vet tomorrow), but she is now on antibiotics for the runs. I also got some special dry food today (I think it is called artemis grain free or something like that) and she ate that with no problems so far, so hopefully things are improving. I'd been giving her pumpkin, but I think she must have gone off the taste as that was what she wouldn't eat yesterday and today. Will try again in another few days. Do you think sardines and eggs would upset her more? She ate these this morning, but it may have made her worse I'm not sure. Thanks again.

If her tummy is upset (ad chemo did give Ollie the runs a bit too) I would be sticking to as bland a diet as possible...So I would not do the eggs but I don't think the fish would do any harm... I used to give Ollie fresh tuna (I know it is expensive but he loves and you don't need a lot for a small meal) and mix it with some sweet potato and zucchini (chopped fine, steamed and mashed together - the veges) then I would just break the tuna into it... I found Ollie went between sweet potato and pumpkin - he will usually eat one or the other...

I believe the artemis is good stuff but never used it myself - it is a personal preference and I just used good human grade (often organic) meat and veges... Cottage cheese is OK and light enough to give to if they are upset.

Hang in there, it is a long road yet and if you are anything like me - you will question if what you are doing so many times, especially when they get sick... In saying that I have seen some dogs do chemo with relatively no issues at all.. Ollie had a few episodes but he was on chemo on a three week cycle. Two weeks of chemo and one week off, then two weeks of chemo and one week off for just on six months - it did my head in towards the end...

Happy to answer any questions I can... What chemo protocol do they have her on?

[joanne76]

I hope all goes well with your Halle's chemo. My Lab had chemo for Lympho a few years back too, she didnt exactly have Lymphoma but it was being succesfully treated as such.

She completely went off her food for about 3 weeks, she wouldnt touch a thing and barely drank water. it was terrible and very scary. When she finally did eat all she would eat was BBQ Chicken and drink Strawberry milkshakes made from pet milk. It was a horrible time but at least she was eating something, this is all she ate for about 6 weeks. I spent a fortune on bbq chickens but i didnt care.

I hope Halle feels ok throughout her chemo and recovers well.

[halledaisy]

Hi all, Thanks again for all the kind words. Halle seems to be improving slowly, she had her blood test today so hopefully all is good. I am still struggling with her food though, does anyone have any other tips? She is quite hungry (will eat some of the artemis biscuits) and runs to her bowl, but if it is cooked meat with vegies, she won't touch it. I think she will eat sardines and I gave her hamburgers yesterday, but she just won't eat the meat mixed with vegies. I have cooked up beef with pumpkin and sweet potato and turkey with pumpkin, sweet potato and zuchini. She ate it for the first few days last week, but thats it. Thanks again- any support and suggestions are much appreciated!

[labsrule]

Hi all, Thanks again for all the kind words. Halle seems to be improving slowly, she had her blood test today so hopefully all is good. I am still struggling with her food though, does anyone have any other tips? She is quite hungry (will eat some of the artemis biscuits) and runs to her bowl, but if it is cooked meat with vegies, she won't touch it. I think she will eat sardines and I gave her hamburgers yesterday, but she just won't eat the meat mixed with vegies. I have cooked up beef with pumpkin and sweet potato and turkey with pumpkin, sweet potato and zuchini. She ate it for the first few days last week, but thats it. Thanks again- any support and suggestions are much appreciated!

What about chicken? have you cooked up any for her. You can pan fry, grill, roast or boil and if boil, keep the broth and let her drink it, like a soup and add some chicken to it. Were the veges mashed up? If she won't eat the veges, then just give her meat by itself as important for her to eat. If she is eating the biscuits, then mix the meat in with the biscuits. Hope she is doing ok, poor baby

[Staffyluv]

Do you mash the veges? I mash them all together and then mix the meat and veg together - it looks like it is coated with vege goop but they don't seem to notice the veg after a while - maybe add some cottage cheese to it too or even grated cheese if she likes it.

Don't stress, if she is hungry she will eat it... if you fuss she will work out that if she fuss's you will give in (it is hard not to give in when they are not well - I have one here that plays me all the time)...

If the dog biscuits are a whole meal and that is what she wants, give it to her - she will come back to other stuff when she wants a change. Beware, they get really fussy, eating something one day and not the next...

[halledaisy]

I'm very sad today. Halle has been vomitting since last night and I can't get her to eat anything at all now. I don't know what else to try. The vet has said to stop giving her nearly all her meds now and try an anti nausea tablet to see if that will help. She just seems to be getting worse and worse. She has still had the runs (although not as badly as at the start of the chemo) constantly so I don't think she has really gotten much food into her at all over the past week. I'm worried that the cancer is worse and is in her stomach or something already. I hope things get better, its just getting harder and harder at the moment.

[Staffyluv]

I'm very sad today. Halle has been vomitting since last night and I can't get her to eat anything at all now. I don't know what else to try. The vet has said to stop giving her nearly all her meds now and try an anti nausea tablet to see if that will help. She just seems to be getting worse and worse. She has still had the runs (although not as badly as at the start of the chemo) constantly so I don't think she has really gotten much food into her at all over the past week. I'm worried that the cancer is worse and is in her stomach or something already. I hope things get better, its just getting harder and harder at the moment.

Ollie went through the same thing.. I know it is easier to say than do but don't panic, she will pick up on your distress and it will make her worse. I was so lucky to have the same good advice here on DOL when we were going through the same thing.

A couple of days without food is not a big deal (unless she is very underweight already).. But she will need water and electrolytes.. You can get these from the chemist and add to her water. If need be, get a pop top bottle or a syringe and squirt the water into her mouth every hour or so.

Warm BBQ chicken from the supermarket (no skin it is to fatty for a sore tummy) was the most tempting thing we found with Ollie and just a little bit here and there (a couple of tablespoons full in tiny bits offered)...

Keep an eye on her temperature if it is up, there will most likely be a small infection.

Maxalon for nausea worked really well for Ollie - get a script from the vet and take it to the chemist (much cheaper)... What other meds is she on? (apart from chemo drugs)... If they are holistic supplements, I would not stop them... I continued with the Anti-Ox and Lymphodran for Ollie no matter what.

Don't worry about the cancer spreading if she is on chemo - chemo bombards the system and kills off good and bad cells. Believe me when I say, this is a pretty normal reaction to the first round or so of chemo (not all dogs get like it but a lot do)... Chemo is an aggressive form of treatment, so it can have aggressive affects but it works to give them a longer and better quality of life... She won't always react to it like this, sometimes you won't even know she had it.

Now if her temp is up and she won't drink, she will need to go to the vets - when you go, ask them about vitamin C given via a drip (Ollie had this done a couple of times when he was really ill and it makes the world of difference)...

I am working from home all day, so will pop in from time to time in case you have any questions or just want to hear it will be OK... Hang in there.

[halledaisy]

Hi Staffyluv thanks so much for the lovely email. It is just so good to be able to come on here and chat to people who understand. My friends and family are nice about it, but I know they really think she is just a dog, come on.

She is at the vet now on a drip so hopefully that will help. They are doing some blood tests and stuff, but the vet thinks it is more than likely just a reaction to all the medication she has been taking. she has actually been on antibiotics for the past week as well as the cortisone so we are cutting that all back now to see if that helps. I have tried all sorts of biscuits (including arrowroot), turkey, beef, cheese, ham even some raw meet (my vet thinks it is ok to try to get her eating anything at this stage), but I haven't tried BBQ chicken so will try that tonight.

They are going to give her some anti nausea drugs via injection as well today so hopefully that will help too. I just about gave up this morning, she is just looking so miserable I hope this makes her feel better. I don't want her to be in pain and usually she loves her food so this is just the worst.

Thanks again for all your help.