Congratulations And Criticisms

[Dellcara]

As many have said .... sometimes it easier (safer.. VBG) to say nothing ....

I congratulate "most" people in my breed because they are nice people ... I don't have to like their dog....

[whippets]

I'll say well done if the dog is nice or the people are nice otherwise I don't say anything.

I don't bother with people who I see treating their dogs badly. For example: they yank the dog out of the ring when they lose and shove them harshly back into the crate . Some people just think it's all about "them". I won't offer an opinion on anothers dog unless they ask for it.

Some of the "nutty show dog people" do make a day out quite entertaining though.

Edited March 3, 2010 by whippets

[poodlefan]

Ditto to BMP's advice.

Except BMP didn't comment! Thinks you're hearing echoes LOL ;)

Sorry T-Time.. all those little hairy dogs in avatars look the same to me.

It was damn good advice though.

[dog geek]

If someone is a good sport and a decent human being I will offer congratulations even if the winning dog isn't my thing. I have noticed that while others do this too, there is also a good proportion of people who won't or who will voice their disapproval.

When I start showing properly, I am hoping to remember it is supposed to be fun, and that having a positive attitude is as much for my own benefit, as for good manners. "Happy is good for your health" - must make sure I remember that!

Perhaps it is because it is important to them that the dog be worthy in their eyes before they offer congratulations. Or perhaps it is important to them that people understand their position on the breed. Or perhaps they are just a poor loser.

Any of the above, they may have an 'honest at all costs' attitude... but don't say anything because picking fights is not their style? Or maybe there is an element of 'psyching out' the competition? I am so pleased to see this thread, I have been thinking about the 'why' of showing as I hope to be very clear about my intentions, and have strong personal guidelines and goals before I get serious.

I have been pondering for a while what the line is between being a good sport, and contributing to education in the breed.

See, this is where I am perplexed. What is the benefit to refusing to contribute an opinion - when asked, I mean! Or, should this be kept for seminars and discussions? But shouldn't we be learning all the time, everywhere... and aren't there times when it is the right time for someone to speak up?

If you have influence (ie, are a judge or top winner) and you critique a competitor's dog to others with influence (particularly judges outside the breed) are you educating or advancing your own interests?

Exactly - how do you assess your own motives, and accurately gauge your own honesty? If there is dissent within a breed about directions, how do you weigh up arguements vs personalities to determine the most correct course - without being undermined by egos and faulty logic?

If you are your average exhibitor and you criticise your competition, are you supporting the maintenance of standards or are you contributing to an unsportsmanlike environment?

I find it incredibly difficult to present an opinion without being, well, opinionated. The thought of stepping into such a scenario bothers me, I can see myself getting emotive; I can see myself reading far too much into others' presentation of their opinion; and I am agonising at the thought of missing out on really valuable advice! Not to mention, canvassing as many insights as possible will be difficult if I don't know how to engage with people who are a really valuable resource without alienating them or losing credibility...

If a newer person makes a comment about what a judge is looking for or an aspect of the standard that you think is incorrect, do you say something or not?

See, this is where there is knowledge that will be unshared, where directions could go wrong, where mistakes could be entrenched, and time could be wasted! I worry about all of this happening to me!

Generally I go with "never miss an opportunity to shut up" but that isn't always appropriate - particularly not with congratulations.

Lordy, how I wish my tongue would pay attention to this maxim!

What do you think?

[Havasneeze]

I always try and be polite and say Congratulations or well done but I do have a list of people that I don't bother with any more. I choose to say nothing at all to those people.

A good example is this one: Said person got BOB with their dog and I Congratulated them on their BOB. My dog got a class in group (on the same day, at the same show). Said person walked past me and didn't even bother acknowledging me nor congratulating me on my win. One that is on my "I don't bother with you" list.

I always like the saying "One day a Rooster, next day a feather duster" We can't always be winners but good sportsmanship makes for a good day out, win or lose!!!

[BittyMooPeeb]

I congratulate the winning handler for their win. They could be showing a 3 legged camel and I'd still do it. As far as I'm concerned that's good sportsmanship.

It's the judges opinion of the dog that gets them the win, not mine.

I've seen losers storm from the ring, loudly denigrate the winning dog/handler and sundry other dummy spits. The only thing that reflects poorly on is them.

Ditto to BMP's advice.

Cool. You know what I think ;)

If someone is a good sport and a decent human being I will offer congratulations even if the winning dog isn't my thing. I have noticed that while others do this too, there is also a good proportion of people who won't or who will voice their disapproval.

I always congratulate when I am able - sometimes I am too busy concentrating on my dog, or dont see the first place being awarded etc. I admit to getting slack when one of the big winners is awarded - sometimes I wonder if the owner of the big winner will be offended if I say 'congratulations' when (a) they win a lot, and (b) they probably expect to win.

I have been pondering for a while what the line is between being a good sport, and contributing to education in the breed.

If you are your average exhibitor and you criticise your competition, are you supporting the maintenance of standards or are you contributing to an unsportsmanlike environment?

Comments on dogs - not given unless asked, or unless the owner is a friend. Even when asked I don't necessarily say anything negative. I feel it is up to a mentor or the breeder to critique a dog. Anyone else doing this is likely to make enemies!

If you have influence (ie, are a judge or top winner) and you critique a competitor's dog to others with influence (particularly judges outside the breed) are you educating or advancing your own interests?

I'll let you know in 20 years when I (might) have some influence . I have of course heard plenty of people telling others that their type of dog is the 'right' one - it's a problem having so much ambiguity in standards.

If a newer person makes a comment about what a judge is looking for or an aspect of the standard that you think is incorrect, do you say something or not?

If it is a friend in my own breed, I am happy to (and enjoy) discussing interpretations of the standard. If it is not my breed, or not a friend, I wouldn't say anything.

Generally I go with "never miss an opportunity to shut up" but that isn't always appropriate - particularly not with congratulations.

Ditto - except in congratulating, and I sometimes cant resist making a comment to a newbie on handling if I think there is something that could be showing off the dog better.

All the above only concerns situations when I am speaking to the dogs owner or handler. As an armchair judge sitting with friends, I can criticize the judges decision with the best of them

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I always congratulate when I am able - sometimes I am too busy concentrating on my dog, or dont see the first place being awarded etc. I admit to getting slack when one of the big winners is awarded - sometimes I wonder if the owner of the big winner will be offended if I say 'congratulations' when (a) they win a lot, and (b) they probably expect to win.

I've wondered this myself, not so much the offended bit but the fact that in my breed it's usually not hard for them to get through to competing in Group. I tend only to congratulate big winners outside the ring and only if they pick up a BIG or BIS.

Edited March 3, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[SkySoaringMagpie]

See, this is where I am perplexed. What is the benefit to refusing to contribute an opinion - when asked, I mean! Or, should this be kept for seminars and discussions? But shouldn't we be learning all the time, everywhere... and aren't there times when it is the right time for someone to speak up?

When I wrote that I wasn't thinking just of situations where the opinion is asked for.

Even where it is asked for, if the person did not breed the dog, they may have concerns that the person asking will relay any opinions back to the breeder of the dog and that, lacking context, it will cause a shitfight. Or they might know the person well enough to know that they are seeking affirmation, not feedback, and that they will be offended told the dog is a bit short on leg or lacking breed type.

Also, what do you do if you are shown a photo of a show prospect? Is the person asking for your opinion, or do they want you to say "what a cutie, I wish you all the best." ?

Edited for spelling, like all the other posts - someone critique my typing!!

Edited March 3, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I sometimes cant resist making a comment to a newbie on handling if I think there is something that could be showing off the dog better.

I think this is different as feedback about handling is about the person, not the dog. You can improve your handling but you can't fix a bad mouth (legally). Also, a comment about handling can't be construed as a comment on someone's breeding program.

I know when I was very new I was fine about being told my handling needed to improve, god knows it did. But when my girl was refused a challenge for being too small (and she wasn't FWIW) I was devastated because then it was about my dog, not about me.

Edited March 3, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[ellz]

But when my girl was refused a challenge for being too small (and she wasn't FWIW) I was devastated because then it was about my dog, not about me.

It can be very difficult to accept criticism of our dogs (or our children). Most people DO take it personally and it is very difficult not to.

[conztruct]

As a result of the actions of others, I rarely offer any comments after judging now. Whether they be congratulations or commiserations.

I agree - I rarely offer a comment one way or the other - if it was a friend then of course I'd congratulate them and be happy for their win.

I really don't understand the reasons for a lot of the negative comments that happen. As I see it people come to shows for the judge's critique/decision which they get - they don't need another one from anyone else unless it has been specifically asked for. All the negative comments that occur I think is just bad sportsmanship and making trouble but it's part of what happens so I think it's equally important to be able to deal with it and see it simply as someone not being able to handle their disappointment.

[D & D]

If someone is lucky enough to beat me they deserve that well done, they've earned it ;)

I did.........................once :D

I'm still new at this, but try to offer congratulations where I can.

I also find it nice when people I barely know offer well dones/congrats.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I think it's equally important to be able to deal with it and see it simply as someone not being able to handle their disappointment.

I think this shows a great deal of insight. I also agree with turkishdelight that if someone is fragile in some respect it will show through in this area.

I know I've made remarks here in the past about not excusing poor behaviour but I also think it's important to look at the context. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't have the advantages you have (income, youth, supportive partner, status, health, skill, experience, great mentors, dogs from a top winning kennel, whatever) then often it pays to be the bigger person and let it go. Sometimes we are so focussed on what we need to improve and fix we forget that we aren't struggling near as hard as our gazebo neighbours might be.

[dog geek]

Yes!

There we go - another maxim for me stick up inside my gazebo... together with a reminder that it may be me reacting badly for those reasons, so Take The Opportunity To Say Nothing...

[Bokezu]

My approach is always say Congrats to the handler - I expect this in return if I win, If i dont get it, I bitch about it to my OH in the car on the way home

At dog shows you get what you pay for. When you enter, you are paying for that judges opinion of your dog, if you dont like their opinion or are likely to get upset if they dont like your dog then dont enter. It really is that simple

I agree

[Starkehre]

Being a newb in the show ring, I always offer congrats, and it genuinely comes from a kind and well intentioned place. I am not just saying it to be polite. I imagine if it was me winning, then I would be chuffed, and so I am genuinely happy for that person. I would not say it if I wasn't.

When I do well in the ring, I do not expect any congrats in return. I would never judge anyone else by my standards. I do not give it to receive it. If I get a congrats, I will appreciatively accept it, but not require it to keep myself happy.

I have a feeling if I continue showing for a long time, my bright, bubbly and positive attitude may change

Although I am the same with other disciplines that I have been doing for many many years, so maybe not. I hope not.

My motto is "if it is not necessary to say, then it is necessary not to say", but that for me only refers to negative comments and backstabbing.

[angelsun]

I was trained years ago and maintain it to this day, to look a person in the eye and congratulate them on their win. It doesn't matter if I agree with the win or not, or if I like the dog or not, or if I get along with the person or not. It is the polite/sportsmanlike thing to do.

What I find disappointing is that very infrequently at the shows I attend does this happen at any level unless the gang involved are best buddies.

I recently congratulated someone for a win and never even got a 'thank you' Not on if you ask me!

No one likes to lose, but lets face it, it happens all the time in dogs and often not justified, but we did pay for one persons opinion so suck it up and deal with that choice. What we must remember is simply that for all the times you don't offer a simple "well done" or "congratulations" remember that you may not get that when it's your turn, and how will YOU feel then?

[gareth]

But when my girl was refused a challenge for being too small (and she wasn't FWIW) I was devastated because then it was about my dog, not about me.

It can be very difficult to accept criticism of our dogs (or our children). Most people DO take it personally and it is very difficult not to.

Sorry SSM but I do not understand why you would be upset over that, IF you knew your dog was within standard. Not all judges get it right, and part of showing is learning to understand and accept that and move on to the next show. You are also within your rights to call for a measure.

I ASK for criticisms of my dogs from respected people to help me learn. I may not always agree with the opinions of others, but will always give them due consideration. How can one learn and improve without an objective eye and an open mind?

[Wyntervale]

I'm still a complete newb, so far I tend not to say anything unless I'm actually speaking to the person because I don't want to embarrass myself and I'm prone to paying insufficient attention to what's going on while I'm trying to work out what the hell I'm doing.

But I try to have a smile for everyone.

I'm there to have fun and try to just cruise through whatever else is going on there that I don't need to know about.

I've been very lucky and met some fantastically helpful people and had someone in my breed make a point of coming over and introducing themselves when I was being shy and not wanting to distract them when they were busy. I thought that was just lovely.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Sorry SSM but I do not understand why you would be upset over that, IF you knew your dog was within standard. Not all judges get it right, and part of showing is learning to understand and accept that and move on to the next show. You are also within your rights to call for a measure.

I ASK for criticisms of my dogs from respected people to help me learn. I may not always agree with the opinions of others, but will always give them due consideration. How can one learn and improve without an objective eye and an open mind?

Dude, it was my fourth show ever. What do you think the chances are of a completely raw exhibitor calling for a measure, if indeed, they even know that such a thing exists?

Don't you think it's a little weird to question someone's emotional state anyway? Plenty of experienced people get upset by much less than a refused challenge. Everyone is entitled to feel down about the bad days just as they are to feel happy about the good days. It's not the emotional state that is the issue, it's what people do with it that matters.

As for your little lecture, well, sure. Who's going to argue with that? Not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand tho'.