Congratulations And Criticisms

[gareth]

Ahh you need to NOT take things so personally, you will not survive otherwise. Treat it all as a learning experinece and take the good and leave the bad behind.

It's not the emotional state that is the issue, it's what people do with it that matters.

Please explain?

Also, you need to listen to "lectures" from experienced exhibitors. You might learn something. OR you can get huffy and defensive and decide it is all too hard emotionally. Your choice

As for your little lecture, well, sure. Who's going to argue with that? Not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand tho'

I read the title of the thread - approach to criticism. Am I in the wrong thread?

Edited March 7, 2010 by gareth

[SkySoaringMagpie]

It's not the emotional state that is the issue, it's what people do with it that matters.

Please explain?

There is a difference between feeling an emotion and acting on it. IOW, feeling an emotion does not necessarily determine your behaviour. In this case, you suggested that an exhibitor should not feel upset. Why not? Sometimes shitty things happen at shows. I think an exhibitor should wait until they are in the car going home before they burst into tears or start flinging the cat about, but it's OK to feel disappointment, anger and stress. It's what you do with it that counts.

Now sure, if one emotion controlled your thoughts every waking moment then it would be destructive, but most people I know (including me) are over it by the time they get home. So it's pretty fleeting. I think Jeannette Winterson wrote "no emotion is the final one" in one of her books, and it is an astute and reassuring observation.

Also, you need to listen to "lectures" from experienced exhibitors. You might learn something.

Already done matey and I'm still doing it. I have listened to a number of breed leaders and judges who have been kind enough to offer me their time. Some have gone over my dogs in detail at my request and told me exactly what they thought and it wasn't all sunshine and roses. I've even written about it here before.

It strikes me that you have a set lecture you want to give here. Lecture away if it pleases you but you're missing the point.

[gareth]

Lecture away if it pleases you but you're missing the point.

Why would I have a set lecture? And I hope you will realise in time that I am not missing any points at all.

I wish you a lot of luck. I will say no more for fear of "lecturing" you, or god forbid, saying something you don't want to hear

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Why would I have a set lecture? And I hope you will realise in time that I am not missing any points at all.

I wish you a lot of luck. I will say no more for fear of "lecturing" you, or god forbid, saying something you don't want to hear

In this thread you've told me to do a number of things I've already done. It's not apparent that you understand who your audience is, which is why you sound to me like you're reeling off a set piece.

I haven't bothered with a resume but it's sufficient to say you have leaped in without checking first on this one.

[gareth]

Whatever. I will save my "lectures" for those who have open minds, who want to learn, and don't get carried away by their emotions. Anyone who knows their audience from reading a public forum would be pretty intuitive. All we can offer is generic advice.

[Dogsfevr]

I was trained years ago and maintain it to this day, to look a person in the eye and congratulate them on their win. It doesn't matter if I agree with the win or not, or if I like the dog or not, or if I get along with the person or not. It is the polite/sportsmanlike thing to do.

What I find disappointing is that very infrequently at the shows I attend does this happen at any level unless the gang involved are best buddies.

I recently congratulated someone for a win and never even got a 'thank you' Not on if you ask me!

No one likes to lose, but lets face it, it happens all the time in dogs and often not justified, but we did pay for one persons opinion so suck it up and deal with that choice. What we must remember is simply that for all the times you don't offer a simple "well done" or "congratulations" remember that you may not get that when it's your turn, and how will YOU feel then?

That is the difference with the US/canadian show world,they do congratulate & it would be rude not too,here its always rude to congratulate

[Jed]

Why would I have a set lecture? And I hope you will realise in time that I am not missing any points at all.

I wish you a lot of luck. I will say no more for fear of "lecturing" you, or god forbid, saying something you don't want to hear

In this thread you've told me to do a number of things I've already done. It's not apparent that you understand who your audience is, which is why you sound to me like you're reeling off a set piece.

I haven't bothered with a resume but it's sufficient to say you have leaped in without checking first on this one.

If you were looking for approbation and commiseration only, and not advice, maybe you should have stated that in your post?

And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

[BittyMooPeeb]

Why would I have a set lecture? And I hope you will realise in time that I am not missing any points at all.

I wish you a lot of luck. I will say no more for fear of "lecturing" you, or god forbid, saying something you don't want to hear

In this thread you've told me to do a number of things I've already done. It's not apparent that you understand who your audience is, which is why you sound to me like you're reeling off a set piece.

I haven't bothered with a resume but it's sufficient to say you have leaped in without checking first on this one.

If you were looking for approbation and commiseration only, and not advice, maybe you should have stated that in your post?

And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

I think you are both missing SSM's point - this thread is about actions, not feelings. Someone can feel disappointed/angry/devastated etc but still act courteously. I am sure SSM would have been polite and well behaved to the judge who declared that her dog was too small, regardless of how she felt.

Personally, I feel the attitude "toughen up or you wont survive" is overused in the dog showing world, and particularly so on this forum . Why should it be the courteous and sensitive that have to change, rather than the rude and vengeful?

[Havasneeze]

Why would I have a set lecture? And I hope you will realise in time that I am not missing any points at all.

I wish you a lot of luck. I will say no more for fear of "lecturing" you, or god forbid, saying something you don't want to hear

In this thread you've told me to do a number of things I've already done. It's not apparent that you understand who your audience is, which is why you sound to me like you're reeling off a set piece.

I haven't bothered with a resume but it's sufficient to say you have leaped in without checking first on this one.

If you were looking for approbation and commiseration only, and not advice, maybe you should have stated that in your post?

And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

I think you are both missing SSM's point - this thread is about actions, not feelings. Someone can feel disappointed/angry/devastated etc but still act courteously. I am sure SSM would have been polite and well behaved to the judge who declared that her dog was too small, regardless of how she felt.

Personally, I feel the attitude "toughen up or you wont survive" is overused in the dog showing world, and particularly so on this forum . Why should it be the courteous and sensitive that have to change, rather than the rude and vengeful?

Touché

[Dogsfevr]

personally, I feel the attitude "toughen up or you wont survive" is overused in the dog showing world, and particularly so on this forum wink.

I will agree to disagree.

There are people who whinge at the drop of the hat

I am not a fan of the poor me person & this applies at shows,shops or any place.

This is a competition & everyone nows competition brings out the best & worse of people,if you chose to compete then you are well aware that all sorts will be there whether it be the good,bad,suck ups ,try hards or softies.

\

[angelsun]

I was trained years ago and maintain it to this day, to look a person in the eye and congratulate them on their win. It doesn't matter if I agree with the win or not, or if I like the dog or not, or if I get along with the person or not. It is the polite/sportsmanlike thing to do.

What I find disappointing is that very infrequently at the shows I attend does this happen at any level unless the gang involved are best buddies.

I recently congratulated someone for a win and never even got a 'thank you' Not on if you ask me!

No one likes to lose, but lets face it, it happens all the time in dogs and often not justified, but we did pay for one persons opinion so suck it up and deal with that choice. What we must remember is simply that for all the times you don't offer a simple "well done" or "congratulations" remember that you may not get that when it's your turn, and how will YOU feel then?

That is the difference with the US/canadian show world,they do congratulate & it would be rude not too,here its always rude to congratulate

I"m not sure I understand this...considered rude to say 'congratulations'? Is it rude to also ask if a fellow exhibitor is ready to proceed around the ring when the judge says 'take them around'? Because I'm not getting much of that consideration either. Is it rude when exhibitors crowd in a line up and they are asked not to, or to back up a bit? Because I got that impression when I've had to request someone not allow their dog to stand on top of mine. I was taught to say please and thank you.....perhaps I"m being rude to do that in shows here then?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

I dunno Jed, I've been reading the board for a while and I have a picture in my head of you. I'd be hard pressed to give all the details, but I know you're experienced, a breeder, and are good at sizing up issues. So I'd not barrel in and bark at you in bold that you "will not survive!" unless you take my advice. The key point I want to make tho' is that even if I did have that kind of message to deliver to someone, because of the nature of the message, I'd hope that I would be pretty careful about how I delivered it. Getting high handed on the internet doesn't do much but make the speaker (typer?) feel better.

Fortunately now I've had 12 hours sleep and am not coming off the sleep deprivation of a 3 day show weekend I can see it was dopey to pull the "you don't know me" routine. It would have been better to let the pontificating sit untouched. Plenty of people know I'm a serious insect about my breed already and they know my breed is not for the faint-hearted, particularly in my state. Those that don't know don't matter.

[shellbyville]

Personally, I feel the attitude "toughen up or you wont survive" is overused in the dog showing world, and particularly so on this forum . Why should it be the courteous and sensitive that have to change, rather than the rude and vengeful?

I totally agree with this statement. I do think that you need to have 'thick skin' to be in the show world. I have been showing now for about 9 years and for the most part love it. I try to remember I am there for the judges opinion on my dog, I paid for it in my entry and whether I like it or not, they gave their opinion. Next week the judge may and often does have a totally different opinion on the same dogs being judged!

I think a 'well done' or 'congratulations' to a fellow competitor is just good sportsmanship!

I don't want to have to become 'hard' or 'tough', however I think I have changed somewhat during the years I have been showing, but still think good sportsmanship is so important and doesn't cost us anything. Common courtesy seems to have been lost in some circles in the show scene!

Edited March 7, 2010 by shellbyville

[gareth]

So I'd not barrel in and bark at you in bold that you "will not survive!" unless you take my advice. The key point I want to make tho' is that even if I did have that kind of message to deliver to someone, because of the nature of the message, I'd hope that I would be pretty careful about how I delivered it. Getting high handed on the internet doesn't do much but make the speaker (typer?) feel better.

Fortunately now I've had 12 hours sleep and am not coming off the sleep deprivation of a 3 day show weekend I can see it was dopey to pull the "you don't know me" routine. It would have been better to let the pontificating sit untouched. Plenty of people know I'm a serious insect about my breed already and they know my breed is not for the faint-hearted, particularly in my state. Those that don't know don't matter.

Fortunately there are newbies who can distinguish between good old fashioned advice, and "high handed pontificating" and rather than getting snooty and defensive and bearing a grudge over nothing, they are the ones who go on, stick it out and end up as successful exhibitors

[SparkyTansy]

Like Shelbyville, I like to think i have changed over the years of showing dogs... I've only been doing it for around 7 years...

I'll admit to having a whinge about losing with my dog in the early days, but it's mostly because I didnt understand... I feel that understanding comes with time and if you are brave enough to stick it out and learn from your experiences, you are in it for the long term. those who cannot look at themselves and their behaviour, both in and outside the ring, well I just don't think they'll be the ones around in years to come.

[angelsun]

Like Shelbyville, I like to think i have changed over the years of showing dogs... I've only been doing it for around 7 years...

I'll admit to having a whinge about losing with my dog in the early days, but it's mostly because I didnt understand... I feel that understanding comes with time and if you are brave enough to stick it out and learn from your experiences, you are in it for the long term. those who cannot look at themselves and their behaviour, both in and outside the ring, well I just don't think they'll be the ones around in years to come.

I totally agree....if we haven't evolved and learned during out time in this game, shame on us. Many of us will admit that we had one train of thought when we started and down the track a few years, think a different way. It's not about being tough, it's about accepting that we have a sport which ebbs and flows and is not black and white in many ways like other sports. We don't simply put a little white ball into a hole in a paddock and count the number of times we hit it as whether we succeed or not. Those with a true passion and genuine reason for showing/breeding, will endure regardless of the challenges presented to us...those that are doing this for the wrong reasons won't last long, and honestly, shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

[Jed]

And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

I dunno Jed, I've been reading the board for a while and I have a picture in my head of you. I'd be hard pressed to give all the details, but I know you're experienced, a breeder, and are good at sizing up issues. So I'd not barrel in and bark at you in bold that you "will not survive!" unless you take my advice. The key point I want to make tho' is that even if I did have that kind of message to deliver to someone, because of the nature of the message, I'd hope that I would be pretty careful about how I delivered it. Getting high handed on the internet doesn't do much but make the speaker (typer?) feel better.

Fortunately now I've had 12 hours sleep and am not coming off the sleep deprivation of a 3 day show weekend I can see it was dopey to pull the "you don't know me" routine. It would have been better to let the pontificating sit untouched. Plenty of people know I'm a serious insect about my breed already and they know my breed is not for the faint-hearted, particularly in my state. Those that don't know don't matter.

And maybe you just mistook someone who has no idea who you are, or what you are, who genuinely wanted to assist you, for something else.

[Florise]

I'll admit to having a whinge about losing with my dog in the early days, but it's mostly because I didnt understand... I feel that understanding comes with time and if you are brave enough to stick it out and learn from your experiences, you are in it for the long term. those who cannot look at themselves and their behaviour, both in and outside the ring, well I just don't think they'll be the ones around in years to come.

Good post. I agree with you.

[Faolmor]

I was trained years ago and maintain it to this day, to look a person in the eye and congratulate them on their win. It doesn't matter if I agree with the win or not, or if I like the dog or not, or if I get along with the person or not. It is the polite/sportsmanlike thing to do.

What I find disappointing is that very infrequently at the shows I attend does this happen at any level unless the gang involved are best buddies.

I recently congratulated someone for a win and never even got a 'thank you' Not on if you ask me!

No one likes to lose, but lets face it, it happens all the time in dogs and often not justified, but we did pay for one persons opinion so suck it up and deal with that choice. What we must remember is simply that for all the times you don't offer a simple "well done" or "congratulations" remember that you may not get that when it's your turn, and how will YOU feel then?

That is the difference with the US/canadian show world,they do congratulate & it would be rude not too,here its always rude to congratulate

I don't think it's rude here to congratulate someone. Or do you mean the way in which the congratulations are offered (eg, insincere)? Can you clarify your point? I think I'm missing it!

[Dogsfevr]

That is the difference with the US/canadian show world,they do congratulate & it would be rude not too,here its always rude to congratulate

I"m not sure I understand this...considered rude to say 'congratulations'? Is it rude to also ask if a fellow exhibitor is ready to proceed around the ring when the judge says 'take them around'? Because I'm not getting much of that consideration either. Is it rude when exhibitors crowd in a line up and they are asked not to, or to back up a bit? Because I got that impression when I've had to request someone not allow their dog to stand on top of mine. I was taught to say please and thank you.....perhaps I"m being rude to do that in shows here then?

I guess i worded it badly.

I have many US videos of dogs shows where exhibitors gather in the middle & shake hands,pat there back or a verbel well done.

You rarely see it here(infact i have never seen it done in that fashion here after showing in 4 states).

Some as already pointed out here dont take the Congrates well so for some saying it is like its "rude" (need a better word to insert)

We dont have the sportsmanship of the Us in "congrates " here .

As for the rest i always say are you ready but many dont they just take off ,

As for crowding well im polite the first offence but dont take likely to fools,what you expect i expect except here the congrates just isnt done in the same manner