jr_inoz Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Rommy pulls more in one of these than with a chain and lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcop Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Aren't these harnesses made to test a dog ability to stop when something becomes uncomfortable. Does it state on the instructions to just stand still when the dog pulls and not pull on the lead at all. So that the dog realises it is it that is making it uncomfortable for its self ? I used to make these no pull collars back in 1990 with great success but they were mostly used by people who were time poor or weren't into the training thing. Some people like them others don't but if they give you the result you need go for it. I like them because it gets the dog thinking and they change their attitude real quick with no effort from you. And there should not be any effort involved. I also agree that other methods work its a matter of personal choice or circumstance. If you can afford it I would use a pro-trainer but if not you have to go for other options. the thread killer or am I just paranoid Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I agree with you nek- thanks for clarifying what you meant. I agree Sag- thats pretty much what i meant. These harnesses don't suit all dogs- but whenthey work, they work well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Mum attened obedience religously and had several different trainers. Dharma will heel for 2 seconds and then pull. If you constantly remind her she will heel, but it is a CONSTANT battle. She did not improve at all even with regular training and consistent training, etc. She is a very stubborn dog! Mum wants to go for a relaxing walk and at the moment, she won't walk her at all because she is so strong and just refuses to settle. That's why I thought one of these would be good. She currently wears a halti but it does not do anything - Dharma stops to rub it then pulls, stops to rub it then pulls... Anyway, thanks for all the recommendations. We'll give them a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 find a new trainer Beat me to it Nekhbet, just thinking exactly that when clicking on your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 what does it matter if i can take a dog and get it to walk on a loose lead if an owner can't? Some owners cannot do whats required and need the assistance of tools that manage the dog and make it easier. Agreed, it's usually possible but not always in the time available. Another issue is safety. The majority of my clients are women with large, strong, reactive or aggressive dogs. I think it's essential that these owners are relying on the conditioning and NOT the tool, and they are highly motivated so they do learn how to train the dog. But I still ask them to use a front-attaching harness or head halter in case something goes wrong. It can be attached to a double-ended leash. As a matter of interest and I understand that many trainers have different methods, but why do accomplished K9 trainers who specialise in working breeds, Schutzhund, police dog and security training generally frown upon head halters, harnesses etc for gaining reliable obedience??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 what does it matter if i can take a dog and get it to walk on a loose lead if an owner can't? Some owners cannot do whats required and need the assistance of tools that manage the dog and make it easier. Agreed, it's usually possible but not always in the time available. Another issue is safety. The majority of my clients are women with large, strong, reactive or aggressive dogs. I think it's essential that these owners are relying on the conditioning and NOT the tool, and they are highly motivated so they do learn how to train the dog. But I still ask them to use a front-attaching harness or head halter in case something goes wrong. It can be attached to a double-ended leash. As a matter of interest and I understand that many trainers have different methods, but why do accomplished K9 trainers who specialise in working breeds, Schutzhund, police dog and security training generally frown upon head halters, harnesses etc for gaining reliable obedience??? There are several reasons, firstly you cannot compete or work with these tools and we aren't talking about pet owners. Anyone who cannot teach a dog to walk to heel on a flat collar or check chain has no place doing this sort of training. I think the level of skill is generally higher and the dogs are more tolerant of correction usually, so where you have a large, strong dog and a small or physically disadvantaged handler a prong collar can be an option. A head collar or front-attaching harness requires very little training on it's own, they can often be quite effective with the most basic training in how to use them. For this reason people tend to use them and then have little motivation to teach the dog how to walk on a flat collar. Some people make their own choice to just keep using the equipment and that's their business, it can back-fire if the dog then learns how to pull into the equipment though. Those who want to come and get help in training their dog can learn to use a flat-collar, martingale or whatever. If they would obviously require leverage in an emergency then I encourage the use of a front-attaching harness and a double-ended leash. That way they can still walk on a flat collar, but if the leverage is required it is immediately accessible. You can't train a dog to be rock-solid reliable under any amount of distraction overnight. You have specifically mentioned "... for gaining reliable obedience" so I'm not entirely sure that I have answered your question because I'm not sure how broadly we are speaking here or the relevance of head halters and harnesses to obedience in a broader sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I can empathise with your mum Kirty, when I had Evie she was exactly the same. Some dogs are just tougher to teach to loose lead walk than others. If your mum wants to try a harness, I think that's better than being constantly stressed while walking her dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 What matters is that the dog gets walked. Why you'd be recommending one of these for a pup beats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 The OP's Mum's dog is an adult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 The OP's Mum's dog is an adult Another posted talked about recommending them in puppy class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlingdog Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 My very difficult dog uses it. The trainer couldn't stop him pulling either, he still does pull but with nowhere near the force he use to. Just be careful sometimes they can rub his armpits. Grey-fasting where did you get yours? I also have a puller when out walking and the sporn harness is brilliant, no pulling whatsoever and I would highly recomment it. Re the cords rubbing the armpits, I had this problem also. Go to a saddlery and ask for some sheepskin covers for horse halters. These will slip on to the cords easily and you will have no more rubbing. I put a stitch in each end to stop them slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggy mum Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 They are different designs- personally, i wouldn't use either and prefer harnesses that connect at the front. I've just spent hours searching online pet stores/eBay/internet but can't seem to find any of front connecting harnesses advertised anywhere.... Where do you get them from????? Aren't these harnesses made to test a dog ability to stop when something becomes uncomfortable. Does it state on the instructions to just stand still when the dog pulls and not pull on the lead at all. So that the dog realises it is it that is making it uncomfortable for its self ?I used to make these no pull collars back in 1990 with great success but they were mostly used by people who were time poor or weren't into the training thing. Some people like them others don't but if they give you the result you need go for it. I like them because it gets the dog thinking and they change their attitude real quick with no effort from you. And there should not be any effort involved. I also agree that other methods work its a matter of personal choice or circumstance. If you can afford it I would use a pro-trainer but if not you have to go for other options. the thread killer or am I just paranoid Chris Searched and can't find any mention of these either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 They are different designs- personally, i wouldn't use either and prefer harnesses that connect at the front. I've just spent hours searching online pet stores/eBay/internet but can't seem to find any of front connecting harnesses advertised anywhere.... Where do you get them from????? Easy Walk Harness And another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHaze Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) I must say, i think the easy walk harness tought me a lesson in regards to my severe puller. He doesn't get satisfaction from "a walk", walking sedately at my side just doesn't satisfy him. He needs to be working, and by putting his body into the walk, and feeling the resistence, i think he feels more satisfied. Does it make it more pleasant for me? Nope - but such is life lol I just persevere until the weather gets cooler and the racing harnesses get pulled out, and i can work the dogs in a way that satisfies them in a much better way than walking! Edited March 3, 2010 by SilverHaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Paws Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 (edited) here's another front clip harness now available in Aust http://www.petdogtraining.com.au/fileadmin...RNESS_Final.pdf http://www.petdogtraining.com.au/products.html Edited March 3, 2010 by 4 Paws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggy mum Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Thanks heaps! I'vr just ordered one. Easy Walk Harness And another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slk Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 My very difficult dog uses it. The trainer couldn't stop him pulling either, he still does pull but with nowhere near the force he use to. Just be careful sometimes they can rub his armpits. Grey-fasting where did you get yours? I also have a puller when out walking and the sporn harness is brilliant, no pulling whatsoever and I would highly recomment it. Re the cords rubbing the armpits, I had this problem also. Go to a saddlery and ask for some sheepskin covers for horse halters. These will slip on to the cords easily and you will have no more rubbing. I put a stitch in each end to stop them slipping. Great minds!! Max is on a sporn harness (love it!) but it rubbed under his arms. So I got a leftover over from baby day's sheepskin cot underlay, cut out panels and stitched them into tubes which I then slid over the cords ....... hubby just rolled his eyes and said "that dog is treated better than the kids" Worked an absolute treat but your idea is easier .... going to keep an eye out for when mine wear out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 He doesn't get satisfaction from "a walk", walking sedately at my side just doesn't satisfy him. He needs to be working, and by putting his body into the walk, and feeling the resistence, i think he feels more satisfied. Does it make it more pleasant for me? Nope - but such is life lol why dont you clip his harness to something like a car tyre and walk him along next to you? I know AmBull people train weight pull conditioning like that I met a bitch that wasnt happy unless she had dragged a car tyre a couple of k's a day. Better then ripping your arm out of your socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHaze Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 He doesn't get satisfaction from "a walk", walking sedately at my side just doesn't satisfy him. He needs to be working, and by putting his body into the walk, and feeling the resistence, i think he feels more satisfied. Does it make it more pleasant for me? Nope - but such is life lol why dont you clip his harness to something like a car tyre and walk him along next to you? I know AmBull people train weight pull conditioning like that I met a bitch that wasnt happy unless she had dragged a car tyre a couple of k's a day. Better then ripping your arm out of your socket. lol - thats our pre season pull training! But a tyre is a bit hard to manage when your trying to walk 3 dogs at once late at night along the footpath! Almost cool enough to pull out the tyre and the scooters though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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