What's The Right Thing To Do...

[W Sibs]

What a sucky situation, RL

I think it's an accident. Offering to pay half is a very good gesture, but don't feel like you have too. Because, you don't have too.

The owner learned the hard way what kind of mischief a puppy can get into. They should of checked out their fence for any holes and gaps before letting their new puppy roam free around their yard, especially if there are dogs next door.

RL, if you knew that your dog gets excited easily, and you hear the neighbours playing with their puppy... you should of distracted your dog (especially if it was running up and down the fence trying to look into the other yard). You should of kept your dog under control knowing that he gets excited easily (i'm sooo sorry if that came out too bluntly )

If it was Charlie... I wouldn't ask my neighbout to pay. Because, Charlie is my responsibility and if he gets hurts like that, then I would smack myself because I should of been more thorough with puppy proofing the place.

Bottomline is, everyone is responsible for their own dog. But, accidents still do happen.

Edited March 2, 2010 by charleswentworth

[WreckitWhippet]

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

How do you figure that?

From what RL has told us, his dog was in it's own yard, contained by a fence. The neighbours dog somehow got it's leg under the fence and RL's dog had hold of the leg. If your dogs are on your own property what more can you do? It is up to the neighbour to keep their dog (and it's legs) inside their own yard.

That is why I am awaiting legal advice on this matter. I never said it would be fair

There was an opinion in an above post regarding the legalities.

The reality is that if someone makes a complaint to council that your dog has injured another, you will most liekly find yourself in a battle with council proving that you were not at fault. Even if you know your rights, you may also need to engage a solicitor to spell it out to council for you.

It costs and it's VERY stressfull to be in that position.

[Ravyk]

There aren't any gaps in the fence itself, but there is some gap i didn't know about below the fence ( where the ground has eroded or been dug ), which would allow the pup to get part of it's body

under. My block slope's, so the fence is also on top of a retaining wall. Some parts of the wall are 1m high, with the fence on top of that. But the pup got

part of it's body under the section where it slopes down low.

I'd fill the gap with concrete to stop any more little paws or legs getting under the fence.

[becky thatcher]

I am just thinking that if down the track the pup needs more expensive veterinary care then the owners may change their mind re "goodwill" and "half the cost"

Example one: friends daughter got glassed in a hotel here recently, requiring surgery to her hand, she has to take at last one month off her casual full time job (no sick leave or holidays) and will require physiotherapy in the future. What was the pubs goodwill offer? A free VIP pass on the next visit. Goodwill, be damned.

It happened on their (the pubs) property. Friends currently going to a lawyer.

Example two: news here today, man in Carnarvon chases 5 intruders off his property and hits one unconscious. He has been charged, though I expect a public outcry will ensue and he will get off.

My point is that "your property" means nothing really.

[mantis]

You can't be responsible for where a neighbour allows their dog to place it's foot, which is beyond your control. They should pay for any injury associated costs when their dog has got it's foot under the fence into your yard. They should have kept the puppy away from the fence if the gaps were not puppy proof. Your dog by law is allowed to protect the property from intruders and the situation is not your fault or responsibility to share.

Totally agree, your dog was just protectyng his property, the pup (who I feel sorry for being hurt), was to blame, not your fault & you shouldn't have to pay. But with the media beat up about BSL, if they aren't nice people could end up badly for your dog, because of his breed.

Edited March 2, 2010 by mantis

[BeagleBoys2]

It is a dog owners responsibility to ensure that their fencing properly confines their dog. Your fence does this. However, as your neighbours have a small puppy "their" fence does not properly confine their dog.

Plus it probably doesn't help if the two have not been introduced to one another. They would both be very interested in what is on the other side of the fence. Puppies being puppies they will stick things where they shouldn't.

As long as you have expressed sincere concern for the neighbours scare that's sufficient. However, I don't see anything wrong with giving them something towards the cost of the vet bill. I personally suspect the pup just got a huge scare and flipped out. I lost a friend over her dog biting my dog in my own yard when she made excuses and did not apologise. I gave her a second opportunity to apologise when I told her about the vet visit. If she was not willing to express at least concern over the injury she was not the kind of friend I was willing to keep. I certainly did not expect her to pay for any vet bill.

I would suggest to the neighbours that if the fence does not properly confine their puppy that they need to take some action to prevent a repeat situation.

[matty]

if this were me, and I was the owner of the puppy, I wouldn't ask you to pay anything. I would be cross with myself that I hadn't checked the fencline properly, or puppy proofed well enough.

That would be my attitude towards that as well. I wouldn't expect the other person to be paying anything if i hadn't taken steps to ensure my dog was safely contained wholey within MY yard.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

By rights it does not sound like you owe him anything. Its his dog, part of its body crossed your boundary, so its his problem.

Having said that, i'd give some thought to whether or not you should pay half for the sake of keeping it "friendly", thats for you to decide on your own.

[Bisart Dobes]

Our next door neighbours had a small white fluffy little cow of a dog some years back. We have Dobes . She dug under the fence and got her head stuck and then freaked when she saw 2 dobes standing there looking at her with amusement (they didn't move - I think they were shocked to be honest). She sliced the back of her head open on the bottom of the fence and luckily the neighbour was in her back yard and so knew that ours didn't even bark until she was back under the fence.

If I hadn't seen it though I would have offered to pay some of the vet bill - a good relationship with your neighbours is priceless.

That afternoon they erected a small fence a metre in from the fence for the entire length of our fenceline to stop her getting to the fence and digging again. It stayed there until she passed away - though she always gave our dogs grief, right up to the end - little cow .

As I said - a good relationship with your neighbours is priceless - especially when you have breeds like ours .

[RL1]

[Totally agree, your dog was just protectyng his property, the pup (who I feel sorry for being hurt), was to blame, not your fault & you shouldn't have to pay. But with the media beat up about BSL, if they aren't nice people could end up badly for your dog, because of his breed.

They're nice enough. The husband seemed fine with it, but the wife was a bit funny.

It is a dog owners responsibility to ensure that their fencing properly confines their dog. Your fence does this. However, as your neighbours have a small puppy "their" fence does not properly confine their dog.

Plus it probably doesn't help if the two have not been introduced to one another. They would both be very interested in what is on the other side of the fence. Puppies being puppies they will stick things where they shouldn't.

As long as you have expressed sincere concern for the neighbours scare that's sufficient. However, I don't see anything wrong with giving them something towards the cost of the vet bill. I personally suspect the pup just got a huge scare and flipped out. I lost a friend over her dog biting my dog in my own yard when she made excuses and did not apologise. I gave her a second opportunity to apologise when I told her about the vet visit. If she was not willing to express at least concern over the injury she was not the kind of friend I was willing to keep. I certainly did not expect her to pay for any vet bill.

I would suggest to the neighbours that if the fence does not properly confine their puppy that they need to take some action to prevent a repeat situation.

All my fences are inside the boundary, all paid for by myself. I don't know the technical or legal issue's this has. All i know is i have excellent fencing that keeps my own dogs safe,

secure and contained inside their own property. I can't be expected to build a fence to suit every other persons pet requirements. Everyone needs to take some responsibility.

Edited March 2, 2010 by RottyLover01

[Zhou Xuanyao]

She sliced the back of her head open on the bottom of the fence and luckily the neighbour was in her back yard and so knew that ours didn't even bark until she was back under the fence.

Is it possible your dogs could also do this to their head ?

Never know they could see a lizard or whatever and try and go after it, get under the same way that dog did.

I take its its a sheet metal fence without a bottom rail ? Same thing happened to my dog. I built a shed out of color bond sheets and one day (entirely my fault ofcourse) she stuck her head under there for whatever reason, and then when she tried to pull her head out she nearly scalped herself. Very big wound across the back of her skull, she needed plenty of stitches but otherwise was fine.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Lo Pan

[RL1]

Did they give you any information about what the nature of the injury is or how the vet thinks it may have occurred? E.g. was it a bite, a sprain etc...

No, i haven't spoken to them since it happened. I will go see them once the rain stops.

RL.

Hope it works out all good for you and your dogs.

I have used concrete edging at my old place under the chain wire fence to fill in the gap. I got some from a friend, other lengths I bought from Kelvin Grove nursery and others from another nursary at Bowen Hills. Shop around for it. Found it good to slide under the fence. It is heavy enough to prevent most from trying to dig it away. It's also portable, so you can move it around to where you need to.

Yeah. Agree with West Chermside.. Highway robbers. I live practically across the road from them, and even while I am entitled to go there for normal veterinary care as a local resident, I wouldn't. Even if I thought I may have had a C-section requirment on my last litter, I had my old vets at Samford vet hospital on standby. They are 24 hour on call, and still cheaper than QVS.

The neighbour did speak briefly about fixing the gap just after the incident, before his wife started calling out to him.

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

Goodwill does still exist.

I don't believe i could be up for any or all of the vet bill, if there turns out to be one. I won't be getting legal advice for a small incident like this.

What a sucky situation, RL

RL, if you knew that your dog gets excited easily, and you hear the neighbours playing with their puppy... you should of distracted your dog (especially if it was running up and down the fence trying to look into the other yard). You should of kept your dog under control knowing that he gets excited easily (i'm sooo sorry if that came out too bluntly )

If it was Charlie... I wouldn't ask my neighbout to pay. Because, Charlie is my responsibility and if he gets hurts like that, then I would smack myself because I should of been more thorough with puppy proofing the place.

Bottomline is, everyone is responsible for their own dog. But, accidents still do happen.

He wasn't running, i shouldn't have said that. I was aware he was interested in what was going on next door, but he wasn't showing any signs of aggression.

I was outside with him at the time, but i can't keep watch over him 24/7. That's the idea of having secure fencing.

Edited March 2, 2010 by RottyLover01

[ozjen]

Did they give you any information about what the nature of the injury is or how the vet thinks it may have occurred? E.g. was it a bite, a sprain etc...

No, i haven't spoken to them since it happened. I will go see them once the rain stops.

RL.

Hope it works out all good for you and your dogs.

I have used concrete edging at my old place under the chain wire fence to fill in the gap. I got some from a friend, other lengths I bought from Kelvin Grove nursery and others from another nursary at Bowen Hills. Shop around for it. Found it good to slide under the fence. It is heavy enough to prevent most from trying to dig it away. It's also portable, so you can move it around to where you need to.

Yeah. Agree with West Chermside.. Highway robbers. I live practically across the road from them, and even while I am entitled to go there for normal veterinary care as a local resident, I wouldn't. Even if I thought I may have had a C-section requirment on my last litter, I had my old vets at Samford vet hospital on standby. They are 24 hour on call, and still cheaper than QVS.

The neighbour did speak briefly about fixing the gap just after the incident, before his wife started calling out to him.

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

Goodwill does still exist.

I don't believe i could be up for any or all of the vet bill, if there turns out to be one. I won't be getting legal advice for a small incident like this.

What a sucky situation, RL

RL, if you knew that your dog gets excited easily, and you hear the neighbours playing with their puppy... you should of distracted your dog (especially if it was running up and down the fence trying to look into the other yard). You should of kept your dog under control knowing that he gets excited easily (i'm sooo sorry if that came out too bluntly )

If it was Charlie... I wouldn't ask my neighbout to pay. Because, Charlie is my responsibility and if he gets hurts like that, then I would smack myself because I should of been more thorough with puppy proofing the place.

Bottomline is, everyone is responsible for their own dog. But, accidents still do happen.

He wasn't running, i shouldn't have said that. I was aware he was interested in what was going on next door, but he wasn't showing any signs of aggression.

I was outside with him at the time, but i can't keep watch over him 24/7. That's the idea of having secure fencing.

I think you are right not to start looking at legal advise as it can add a sour note to what could be a perfectly amicable settlement of the incident and blow it out into something unpleasant for both parties. While your dog may have jumped on the leg coming under the fence out of curiousity and accidently hurt the pup the pups leg was on your side of the fence so its owners have to assume the blame and I am sure that if they are decent people they will see it this way too and not expect you to pay the bill.

I hope the pup is okay and the matter gets resolved quickly to save you more stress. Perhaps if your Rotti is friendly and gentle towards small dogs you could suggest giving the dogs a supervised playdate occassionally and this will help reassure them that there was no malise on your dogs part.

[Longcoat]

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

How do you figure that?

From what RL has told us, his dog was in it's own yard, contained by a fence. The neighbours dog somehow got it's leg under the fence and RL's dog had hold of the leg. If your dogs are on your own property what more can you do? It is up to the neighbour to keep their dog (and it's legs) inside their own yard.

A regulation has to be breached before accountability can be determined. In most dog regulations and acts, dog are exempt from reaction with intruders entering their own yard defined as provocation.

[Longcoat]

I am just thinking that if down the track the pup needs more expensive veterinary care then the owners may change their mind re "goodwill" and "half the cost"

Example one: friends daughter got glassed in a hotel here recently, requiring surgery to her hand, she has to take at last one month off her casual full time job (no sick leave or holidays) and will require physiotherapy in the future. What was the pubs goodwill offer? A free VIP pass on the next visit. Goodwill, be damned.

It happened on their (the pubs) property. Friends currently going to a lawyer.

Example two: news here today, man in Carnarvon chases 5 intruders off his property and hits one unconscious. He has been charged, though I expect a public outcry will ensue and he will get off.

My point is that "your property" means nothing really.

You will find in most council regulations, dogs are exempt from reaction either in their own yard or seeing a person or another dog attack their master/family member.

[snake catcher]

QUOTE (snake catcher @ 1st Mar 2010 - 11:14 AM)

QUOTE

I've tried to do the right thing here. I've spent about $8000 plus on fencing and i never leave the front gates open.

Was the neighbour involved in the building of the fence or any of the cost?

No, i paid for all the fencing here myself. That way i get what i want.

I might be showing my legal ignorance here but ,if the fence was built by you, then wouldnt the hole in the fence be your responsibility.

It could be argued in court maybe that the fence was yours and so is the hole that led to the bandaged foot of next doors dog.

Im no legal expert but I think the laws relating to fences and fencing issues are full of grey areas and loopholes.

[Crisovar]

Once again we have a case of someone else possibly being expected to pay for the lack of responsibility of another.

Pups owner is responsible for keeping their pup safe as far as I am concerned, OPs dog was in its own yard and all reasonable precautions had been taken to keep her dogs and other people and animals safe.

[StaceyB]

QUOTE (snake catcher @ 1st Mar 2010 - 11:14 AM)

QUOTE

I've tried to do the right thing here. I've spent about $8000 plus on fencing and i never leave the front gates open.

Was the neighbour involved in the building of the fence or any of the cost?

No, i paid for all the fencing here myself. That way i get what i want.

I might be showing my legal ignorance here but ,if the fence was built by you, then wouldnt the hole in the fence be your responsibility.

It could be argued in court maybe that the fence was yours and so is the hole that led to the bandaged foot of next doors dog.

Im no legal expert but I think the laws relating to fences and fencing issues are full of grey areas and loopholes.

In this situation, who had the fence built is irrelevant. It is the responsibility of the dogs owner to ensure that the dog is properly contained on the property. The fencing is adequate to contain the OP's dogs, she is not responsible for making sure the neighbors pup is contained and kept safe in their own yard. If the pup can get any part of it's body through the fence it is their responsibility to take steps to rectify it.

[OMD²]

Any news on the injuries?

Oscar was bitten through the fence by our neighbours dog last year... We were building a new fence (they didn't help pay for) But I wanted a fence to keep their dogs away from ours! At the time there was 1 more paling to go on the new fence Oscar was sitting on my lap and I was sitting right next to the fence.. Chris was reaching to get the last paling to nail on.. the idiot guy next door popped his head over and said something stupid .. Oscar turned his head around and next minute his dog had his head through the fence and bit Oscar face!! I quickly looked Oscar over and his lip was bleeding and I said OMG Chris he's bleeding.. The guy next door said was that my dog who did that!! WTF we had to go to PetER and Oscar was seen to etc.. costs us $200 .. the guy next door didn't even say sorry! I would have liked a sorry. We didn't ask for money because I guess I shouldn't have been sitting there with him on my lap with one last paling to go on.. I didn't expect a dog's head to come through and bite him!! The main thing is Oscar wasn't hurt very badly and now we have a fence that their dogs cannot get through

[kim777]

Something similar happened to us - neighbours new pup obviously was a bit lonely and must've dug a bit under the fence, he must've grabbed my springer by the back foot and dragged him under. Almost de-gloved his foot. They insisted on paying the full bill and brought over a bag of bones for both our boys. Was very nice of them I don't think the other dog was agressive, just frustrated and sick of playing 'through' the fence.