What's The Right Thing To Do...

[juice]

i agree, if you pay it will look like you think your dog was at fault

i would play safe, and ring council, just to get them to log it, so if they do get difficult later, you have already put your side first.

then explain that they need to puppy proof the bottom of the fence if their dog is going to come under it.

[Winterpaws]

Oh what a horrid feeling for you!

I wouldn't stress too much, its not like you were letting your dogs run off leash. You've done everything you could do and you know what pups are like, they squeal at anything.

I would bet the pup has put his foot under the fence and your guy has put his paw on it or something. I've seen my dogs do the same thing if the cats are in another room and they stick their paws under the door playing. The pup may have just tried to pull his paw up and not been able?

Let us know how you get on and I'd probably suggest to them that they block up the fence on their side to prevent this sort of thing happening.

[zindello]

I've read through all the posts in this thread, and its a very interesting circumstance.

My first advice would be not to pay anything, by paying an amount, in a legal representation that shows that you feel responsible, guilty, at fault, or all three, however it is a tricky one as you want to try and keep good relations with your neighbors, and obviously dont want them to report your dog or get the council involved.

There are many things that could have happened, the puppy could have just gotten stuck under the fence, struggled, and sprained/broken something trying to get out. It could have snagged, panicked, and done the damage to its'self, or your dog may have caused the damage, you simply dont know. I've seen my puppy get floored by another dog (she was about 9 weeks old, and the other dog was a very large dog and was protecting his food) and she screamed the house down when there was no strain, broken skin, or any injury to my puppy whatsoever. I've also seen young dogs limp as a result of shock with no physical injury as well.

Others would say that the puppy should not have been left alone in their back yard unsupervised, and that all the fences should have been checked for suitability by your neighbor prior to letting the puppy out unsupervised in the back yard.

The problem is, that its very easy to say that "its not my dogs fault" however if you alter the situation a little bit, and say that was a young child, not a puppy, then everybodys uptake on the situation would be very different. The real question is not, are you/your dog at fault, and I think more, what was a young puppy doing unsupervised in a back yard, in the first place, and why didnt the puppy owners take adequate measures to ensure that their back yard was "puppy proof" in the first place? Being that you border with your neighbor, you are both equally responsible for the fencing, however you are each responsible for ensuring that an animal cannot get out of your yard in to an adjacent yard.

Edited March 1, 2010 by zindello

[becky thatcher]

I would get legal advice TBH. Interesting to hear what that would be.

[MolassesLass]

Had a similar thing happen to me (walking my dogs onlead and small dog sneaks under it's fence in attack mode and got woomped by my 4) and I offered to pay half. Not that it matters legally but I said while I didn't think my dogs were at fault I felt awful for her dog. In the end she didn't accept the money but I think the gesture made her feel a lot less inclined to report it which is good for me (my Bullmastiff would quite likely be blamed and get a destruction order no matter the circumstances because of his size/breed).

In this case maybe just offering to pay half the fencing improvement costs would be enough.

[snake catcher]

I've tried to do the right thing here. I've spent about $8000 plus on fencing and i never leave the front gates open.

Was the neighbour involved in the building of the fence or any of the cost?

[RL1]

How is the pup? How are your neighbours? offer definatly tokeep the peace they are your neighbours! Hope its all fine!

I haven't been to see them yet. it's pouring here and i don't think they're home yet.

I think if you are offering to pay anything then you are conceding guilt. It's a tricky one. If you do contribute towards the vet then you should make it very clear that the dog was on your property and legally, you don't have to pay a cent. Emphasise that morally you want to help. Tricky one. If a dog ended in my yard I wouldn't pay, I have however paid a vet bill in the past where my dog hurt another outside of my property.

I'd only pay as a nice gesture, not from a legal point of view.

I wouldn't pay a cent, it's up to the neighbours the ensure the safety of their dog and that includes making sure that the dog cannot get through a fence or any part of their body.

To pay anything is an admission of guilt and if they decide to get nasty about it, there goes any defence you may have had if it comes to a dangerous dog order.

As above..

If it was your dog that hurt theirs I would offer to pay all their veterinary expenses and call over to check on the pup.

No, i think that's going a bit far. I think the neighbours have to take some responsibility here. I don't even know if there is any injury.

[RL1]

i agree, if you pay it will look like you think your dog was at fault

i would play safe, and ring council, just to get them to log it, so if they do get difficult later, you have already put your side first.

then explain that they need to puppy proof the bottom of the fence if their dog is going to come under it.

I don't think it will come to that, they seem like nice enough people up this point.

Oh what a horrid feeling for you!

I wouldn't stress too much, its not like you were letting your dogs run off leash. You've done everything you could do and you know what pups are like, they squeal at anything.

I would bet the pup has put his foot under the fence and your guy has put his paw on it or something. I've seen my dogs do the same thing if the cats are in another room and they stick their paws under the door playing. The pup may have just tried to pull his paw up and not been able?

I think your theory is prob. what has happened.

I've read through all the posts in this thread, and its a very interesting circumstance.

My first advice would be not to pay anything, by paying an amount, in a legal representation that shows that you feel responsible, guilty, at fault, or all three, however it is a tricky one as you want to try and keep good relations with your neighbors, and obviously dont want them to report your dog or get the council involved.

I can't see how they could make a report to the council. My dogs are registered, have a clean history and i have excellent fencing, apart from this one small gap where the earth has eroded or been dug. My dog was inisde his yard. I think it's just an unfortunate accident.

I would get legal advice TBH. Interesting to hear what that would be.

No, i'm not going that far.

In this case maybe just offering to pay half the fencing improvement costs would be enough.

It's a cheap fix. Just needs something on top of the retaining wall to fill the gap.

I've tried to do the right thing here. I've spent about $8000 plus on fencing and i never leave the front gates open.

Was the neighbour involved in the building of the fence or any of the cost?

No, i paid for all the fencing here myself. That way i get what i want.

[tdierikx]

Obviously there isn't anything majorly serious wrong with the pup, or they'd have been on your doorstep last night when they got home from the vet...

I'd play it by ear - if they are the type to cause a stink about your dogs being dangerous, noisy, or their poo smells, then maybe a goodwill gesture of something towards their bill might save the day. I'd be asking them to sign a note saying that your payment is NOT an admission of any guilt on the part of your dog though - just a neighbourly goodwill offering.

T.

[Dame Aussie]

I wouldn't pay a cent, it's up to the neighbours the ensure the safety of their dog and that includes making sure that the dog cannot get through a fence or any part of their body.

To pay anything is an admission of guilt and if they decide to get nasty about it, there goes any defence you may have had if it comes to a dangerous dog order.

I agree with this.

[Danois]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

[RL1]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

If it turns out the pup was injured and it did require some treatment last night i will consider what to contribute. Any money given will only be a gesture of goodwill, as you've already suggested.

As far as the legal issue stands, i don't believe any action could be taken against myself or my dog at all under the circumstances i explained. Furthermore, it was hardly an attack or serious injury.

Edited March 1, 2010 by RottyLover01

[Danois]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

If it turns out the pup was injured and it did require some treatment last night i will consider what to contribute. Any money given will only be a gesture of goodwill, as you've already suggested.

As far as the legal issue stands, i don't believe any action could be taken against myself or my dog at all under the circumstances i explained. Furthermore, it was hardly an attack or serious injury.

I am inclined to agree with you

[WreckitWhippet]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

That's all well and good but try telling that to a ranger when a neighbour or member lodges a complaint for something as minor as that incident. Personally I would go straight into cover my own arse mode and bugger the good will these days.

I've seen owners dragged through the system and forced to consult with a solicitor for a dog than inflicted a scratch on another. The poor people went through a hell of a lot with rangers visits, demands to surrender the dog, threats of NOI's and it went on for months. Their breed of choice was a Rotti too.

Edited March 1, 2010 by SBT123

[Longcoat]

if this were me, and I was the owner of the puppy, I wouldn't ask you to pay anything. I would be cross with myself that I hadn't checked the fencline properly, or puppy proofed well enough.

Yes, I would feel the same and be annoyed that I had overlooked a situation that had injured my puppy. I couldn't blame the dog next door or take money from the owners even if they offered.

[Longcoat]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

That's all well and good but try telling that to a ranger when a neighbour or member lodges a complaint for something as minor as that incident. Personally I would go straight into cover my own arse mode and bugger the good will these days.

I've seen owners dragged through the system and forced to consult with a solicitor for a dog than inflicted a scratch on another. The poor people went through a hell of a lot with rangers visits, demands to surrender the dog, threats of NOI's and it went on for months. Their breed of choice was a Rotti too.

I think it's important as a dog owner to know the laws governing dog's under your particular council or animal acts as I have known a couple of people that have been forced to jump through hoops with incidents that essentially wasn't their fault or repsonsibility. Not all rangers know the laws either and often work under a misguided interpretation of what they think is reasonable which is not always correct.

[Mystiqview]

RL.

Hope it works out all good for you and your dogs.

I have used concrete edging at my old place under the chain wire fence to fill in the gap. I got some from a friend, other lengths I bought from Kelvin Grove nursery and others from another nursary at Bowen Hills. Shop around for it. Found it good to slide under the fence. It is heavy enough to prevent most from trying to dig it away. It's also portable, so you can move it around to where you need to.

Yeah. Agree with West Chermside.. Highway robbers. I live practically across the road from them, and even while I am entitled to go there for normal veterinary care as a local resident, I wouldn't. Even if I thought I may have had a C-section requirment on my last litter, I had my old vets at Samford vet hospital on standby. They are 24 hour on call, and still cheaper than QVS.

[becky thatcher]

Have to correct a wrong assumption being carried through in this thread.

Paying something to them for their vet bill (which I disagree with given the circumstances you posted) is not an admission of guilt or responsibility - it is a gesture of goodwill.

If you do chose to pay something then make it clear to them you are paying it as a gesture of goodwill. They'll be hard pressed to later claim you admitted your dog was at fault.

In addition - in NSW for example the Civil Liability Act actually states that an apology is not an express or implied admission of guilt or fault. Same applies in QLD under their Act but from memory its an expression of regret (compared to apology).

On a court of competent jurisdiction can determine liability

That's all well and good but try telling that to a ranger when a neighbour or member lodges a complaint for something as minor as that incident. Personally I would go straight into cover my own arse mode and bugger the good will these days.

I've seen owners dragged through the system and forced to consult with a solicitor for a dog than inflicted a scratch on another. The poor people went through a hell of a lot with rangers visits, demands to surrender the dog, threats of NOI's and it went on for months. Their breed of choice was a Rotti too.

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

[HollyMilo]

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

How do you figure that?

From what RL has told us, his dog was in it's own yard, contained by a fence. The neighbours dog somehow got it's leg under the fence and RL's dog had hold of the leg. If your dogs are on your own property what more can you do? It is up to the neighbour to keep their dog (and it's legs) inside their own yard.

[becky thatcher]

I honestly don't think goodwill exists anymore. I am very interested in you getting legal advice and letting us know. I think you may find that you are up for all the vet fees.

How do you figure that?

From what RL has told us, his dog was in it's own yard, contained by a fence. The neighbours dog somehow got it's leg under the fence and RL's dog had hold of the leg. If your dogs are on your own property what more can you do? It is up to the neighbour to keep their dog (and it's legs) inside their own yard.

That is why I am awaiting legal advice on this matter. I never said it would be fair