Puppy Breeders

[indigirl]

Im not running down crossbreeds? I have a crossbreed myself. What I am saying is that the oodles from this place are extremely dumb dogs. Granted I have only met two, but they were both from different litters several yrs apart I tend to think they are typical of what these ppl produce.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume..

No, the two you've met have been dumb. You cannot extrapolate from two dogs that every dog from this place is dumb. They might well be but two is hardly a good sample.

As to assuming, you're hardly in a position to get snippy at someone else.

What is your problem exactly? I think I can safely say that the oodles from this place are not overly intelligent. How many oodles from this place do you know personally??

Why am I 'not in a position to get snippy at someone else'?? You assumed from my post I was 'running down crossbreeds', which if you knew me at all you would know is rediculous. I own a crossbreed, I always have. I have also rescued and fostered god knows how many crossbreeds, all beautiful dogs. You are the one who took offence to my comments about these oodles being dumb .. fact is they ARE dumb. I didnt say ALL oodles were dumb I said the two i know from THIS puppy farm are dumb. They are also not terribly attractive, particularly the male.

I think you should sit back and have a look at your previous post to me. You were very 'snippy', you accused me of running down crossbreeds and inferred that I suggested all crossbreeds are unattractive?? Where did I say that? I said my brothers 2 oodles are not terribly attractive.

It seems to me that you are overly sensitive about any negative comments about oodles. This forum is not the place to come and extol the virtues of oodles produced en masse by puppy farmers.

[megan_]

Im not running down crossbreeds? I have a crossbreed myself. What I am saying is that the oodles from this place are extremely dumb dogs. Granted I have only met two, but they were both from different litters several yrs apart I tend to think they are typical of what these ppl produce.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume..

No, the two you've met have been dumb. You cannot extrapolate from two dogs that every dog from this place is dumb. They might well be but two is hardly a good sample.

As to assuming, you're hardly in a position to get snippy at someone else.

I agree with Sheridan on this one. You can't extrapolate that they breed dumb oodles because you know two of them who are "dumb".

As for saying they are ugly, that is just unkind.

To the OP - I wouldn't go down the "dumb, ugly oodles" - it is a fight you will lose and people will be turned off straight away.I know I am everytime someone says it on DOL. I give my oodle a very big hug - he is the bestest dog I have ever met!

I would talk about puppy farms and how they treat their dogs. Count the number of dogs they have and tell them that NO ONE can give that many dogs the walks, love, training and attention that they all NEED. Tell them that puppy farmers say that they're not "one of those puppy farmers". But they all are. You can't have 100 dogs and provide them with all the love and attention they need. Most of the dogs they breed with are companion breeds - they don't need acres to roam, they need their people.

My girl was used as a breeding dog at a puppy farm. She didn't leave her cage and she didn't have a name. Her little tail wags every time I say "Lucy". The farmer sold to many local pet shops. I'm sure they told everyone that the dogs came from a nice farm setting with plently of space to run around. Bull shit.

End of rant.

ETA: I know plently of pure bred labs who eat everything. They aren't dumb.

Edited March 2, 2010 by megan_

[whippets]

Why do they want a Crapadoodle? Plenty of family orientated smaller purebred breeds around. Try and convince to get an ethically bred purebred.

[megan_]

Why do they want a Crapadoodle?

Cahrming. How many hearts have you won over by calling them that?

[Sheridan]

Im not running down crossbreeds? I have a crossbreed myself. What I am saying is that the oodles from this place are extremely dumb dogs. Granted I have only met two, but they were both from different litters several yrs apart I tend to think they are typical of what these ppl produce.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume..

No, the two you've met have been dumb. You cannot extrapolate from two dogs that every dog from this place is dumb. They might well be but two is hardly a good sample.

As to assuming, you're hardly in a position to get snippy at someone else.

What is your problem exactly? I think I can safely say that the oodles from this place are not overly intelligent. How many oodles from this place do you know personally??

Why am I 'not in a position to get snippy at someone else'?? You assumed from my post I was 'running down crossbreeds', which if you knew me at all you would know is rediculous. I own a crossbreed, I always have. I have also rescued and fostered god knows how many crossbreeds, all beautiful dogs. You are the one who took offence to my comments about these oodles being dumb .. fact is they ARE dumb. I didnt say ALL oodles were dumb I said the two i know from THIS puppy farm are dumb. They are also not terribly attractive, particularly the male.

I think you should sit back and have a look at your previous post to me. You were very 'snippy', you accused me of running down crossbreeds and inferred that I suggested all crossbreeds are unattractive?? Where did I say that? I said my brothers 2 oodles are not terribly attractive.

It seems to me that you are overly sensitive about any negative comments about oodles. This forum is not the place to come and extol the virtues of oodles produced en masse by puppy farmers.

Since you missed the point I will repeat it. You don't know that every oodle from this place is dumb. You only know of two. Given there is likely to be hundreds or thousands of them. You know two. I have met nary a one from this place and would not even consider getting an oodle since I am a purebred dog snob but I am not going to assume that every single one is dumb or take your word for it. A sample of two is meaningless. And yes, despite you owning crossbreeds, your post read like you were running them down. To make it simpler, stop making generalisations.

[Cosmolo]

Attacking or making fun of the dogs themselves is not the answer and will result in any message that comes after that not being heard. For the record i know lots and lots of wonderful 'oodles'- doesn't mean how they are bred and kept is okay though.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Cosmolo

[whippets]

Why do they want a Crapadoodle?

Cahrming. How many hearts have you won over by calling them that?

I don't really care about winning hearts with mixed breeds. These dogs are MOSTLY bred by puppy farmers for the pet shop trade. I don't really care about political correctness where this is concerned. There will always be a market for these "designer dogs" mutts, crapadoodles. Call them what you want. Ethically bred puppy farmed mutts are few and far between.

Give me a purebred over a mutt any day of the week.

[Cosmolo]

Insulting the dogs alienates the very people you want to influence with education.

[whippets]

ooh Puh lease. I'm sure the dogs would be mortified.

The fact of where these dogs come from should be more than enough for a reasonably intelligent person not to support the puppy farm trade.

To many bleeding hearts where this is concerned. If people don't support the puppy farm trade then the cycle diminishes.....considerably.

Here is a nice link Puppy_Farms_In_Australia Some images may be distressing

[Cosmolo]

The fact is people DON'T know. I see many caring dog owners who thought they were getting a puppy from where you get a pet puppy from- if they knew they would not have supported the industry. If i speak to them about it i don't firstly call their dog that they ALREADY have and love- ugly, dumb, crapoodle etc etc. The names and insinuations result in minds closing before you get to the point- the very important point about puppy farms etc.

[indigirl]

Im not running down crossbreeds? I have a crossbreed myself. What I am saying is that the oodles from this place are extremely dumb dogs. Granted I have only met two, but they were both from different litters several yrs apart I tend to think they are typical of what these ppl produce.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume..

No, the two you've met have been dumb. You cannot extrapolate from two dogs that every dog from this place is dumb. They might well be but two is hardly a good sample.

As to assuming, you're hardly in a position to get snippy at someone else.

What is your problem exactly? I think I can safely say that the oodles from this place are not overly intelligent. How many oodles from this place do you know personally??

Why am I 'not in a position to get snippy at someone else'?? You assumed from my post I was 'running down crossbreeds', which if you knew me at all you would know is rediculous. I own a crossbreed, I always have. I have also rescued and fostered god knows how many crossbreeds, all beautiful dogs. You are the one who took offence to my comments about these oodles being dumb .. fact is they ARE dumb. I didnt say ALL oodles were dumb I said the two i know from THIS puppy farm are dumb. They are also not terribly attractive, particularly the male.

I think you should sit back and have a look at your previous post to me. You were very 'snippy', you accused me of running down crossbreeds and inferred that I suggested all crossbreeds are unattractive?? Where did I say that? I said my brothers 2 oodles are not terribly attractive.

It seems to me that you are overly sensitive about any negative comments about oodles. This forum is not the place to come and extol the virtues of oodles produced en masse by puppy farmers.

Since you missed the point I will repeat it. You don't know that every oodle from this place is dumb. You only know of two. Given there is likely to be hundreds or thousands of them. You know two. I have met nary a one from this place and would not even consider getting an oodle since I am a purebred dog snob but I am not going to assume that every single one is dumb or take your word for it. A sample of two is meaningless. And yes, despite you owning crossbreeds, your post read like you were running them down. To make it simpler, stop making generalisations.

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions

My brothers dogs ARE dumb, they are also NOT attractive. In my first post i made it clear that these are the only two dogs from this establishment that I personally know. Perhaps to you a sample of two dogs in meaningless but perhaps for someone considering purchasing a puppy from this place it has meaning.

Would you prefer I say these dogs are extremely attractive and intelligent??? Why should I lie? Why is it unkind to say his dogs are unnattractive when I think they are unattractive??

Where did I suggest that all crossbreeds are unattractive?? The ONLY dogs i mentioned in my post were my brothers 2 oodles. YOU are the one who is generalising my comments to 'all crossbreeds'.

[megan_]

ooh Puh lease. I'm sure the dogs would be mortified.

The fact of where these dogs come from should be more than enough for a reasonably intelligent person not to support the puppy farm trade.

To many bleeding hearts where this is concerned. If people don't support the puppy farm trade then the cycle diminishes.....considerably.

Here is a nice link Puppy_Farms_In_Australia Some images may be distressing

Honey we all know this.

So ask yourself, do you help dogs when you're trying to be morally superior or will you help dogs by actually engaging people and changing their minds?

I'm sure it makes you feel good to slam them, but it doesn't help the DOGS one bit. If you want to help the dogs then you need to be smart about your approach. You need to talk about the conditions that the animals live in and not call someone's BELOVED pet an ugly mutt and a piece of crap.

People who call oodles stupid and ugly are a puppy farmers dream - it just drives ordinary people into their arms.

For the record, I own a dog who was used as a puppy farm breeder. I think they are the scum of the earth. But by being engaging and telling people my girl's story I have helped steer at least a dozen people away from puppy farmers. If I called them morons they could rightly tell me where to go. I also own an oodle. I bought him before I knew what puppy farmers were. When someone writes about stupid and ugly oodles it makes my blood boil - and I am not an advocate of oodles at all. If you turn me off, you have turned avarage Joe off a thousand times more.

Think about your objective and the most intelligent way to meet it. Taht is the only way to help the dogs suffering in puppy farm hell.

Edited March 2, 2010 by megan_

[Sheridan]

Perhaps you should stop making assumptions

My brothers dogs ARE dumb, they are also NOT attractive. In my first post i made it clear that these are the only two dogs from this establishment that I personally know. Perhaps to you a sample of two dogs in meaningless but perhaps for someone considering purchasing a puppy from this place it has meaning.

Would you prefer I say these dogs are extremely attractive and intelligent??? Why should I lie? Why is it unkind to say his dogs are unnattractive when I think they are unattractive??

Where did I suggest that all crossbreeds are unattractive?? The ONLY dogs i mentioned in my post were my brothers 2 oodles. YOU are the one who is generalising my comments to 'all crossbreeds'.

Repeating: because that's how your post read.

[Crisovar]

My brother and his wife have two oodles from this particular establishment. The dogs seem healthy enough although one clearly lacked socialisation with humans when very young. The biggest thing ive noticed about his dogs is how incredibly stupid they are, seriously. They eat ANYTHING and do mean anything. This has results in 2 emergency surguries, once after the dog ate a magnetic pool game, second time after one of them ate a skewer off the barbie - wooden skewer and all. They are brainless and not terribly attractive dogs although as puppies they were cute and fluffy. They dont have much personality and tend to yap.

I could not live with dogs as brainless as these two are! Poodles in particular are intelligent dogs, they have clearly bred the brains out of their dogs.

Unless she wants an unattractive, stupid dog with unknown health/behavioural problems, I would steer clear of buying an oodle from this puppy farm!

Before you run down crossbreeds, I suggest you be aware that many people on this forum have crossbreeds and that stupidity and eating whatever they feel like trying isn't limited to crossbreeds. There are also many attractive crossbreeds. I have no doubt Rivergum are puppyfarmers but running down crossbreeds wins you no points.

Im not running down crossbreeds? I have a crossbreed myself. What I am saying is that the oodles from this place are extremely dumb dogs. Granted I have only met two, but they were both from different litters several yrs apart I tend to think they are typical of what these ppl produce.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to assume..

Maybe they both belong to someone who has not trained them.

2 dogs 2 different litters but same home, coincidence maybe.

[HeelerMad]

So many arguments..

There is a stunningly cute oodle doodle thing at the park that the owners got from a puppyfarm, he's a male, so he wasn't as stressed as the other dogs, but he is extremely shy of people, he's JUST getting to trust me and I've known him for 7+ months. Personally, I don't like the oodleydoodleys, (Don't flame me!) but some are cute and sweet, although I'd never purchase one.

Tell her to go for a Heeler.

They're not working dogs at all! :laugh:

Crisovar- Good point. Maybe they're the ones that are the dumb owners, not training their dogs?

Edited March 2, 2010 by HeelerMad

[kiesha09]

ooh Puh lease. I'm sure the dogs would be mortified.

The fact of where these dogs come from should be more than enough for a reasonably intelligent person not to support the puppy farm trade.

To many bleeding hearts where this is concerned. If people don't support the puppy farm trade then the cycle diminishes.....considerably.

Here is a nice link Puppy_Farms_In_Australia Some images may be distressing

Honey we all know this.

So ask yourself, do you help dogs when you're trying to be morally superior or will you help dogs by actually engaging people and changing their minds?

I'm sure it makes you feel good to slam them, but it doesn't help the DOGS one bit. If you want to help the dogs then you need to be smart about your approach. You need to talk about the conditions that the animals live in and not call someone's BELOVED pet an ugly mutt and a piece of crap.

People who call oodles stupid and ugly are a puppy farmers dream - it just drives ordinary people into their arms.

For the record, I own a dog who was used as a puppy farm breeder. I think they are the scum of the earth. But by being engaging and telling people my girl's story I have helped steer at least a dozen people away from puppy farmers. If I called them morons they could rightly tell me where to go. I also own an oodle. I bought him before I knew what puppy farmers were. When someone writes about stupid and ugly oodles it makes my blood boil - and I am not an advocate of oodles at all. If you turn me off, you have turned avarage Joe off a thousand times more.

Think about your objective and the most intelligent way to meet it. Taht is the only way to help the dogs suffering in puppy farm hell.

Fantastic post Megan!!! It is all about educating people about where these oodles are coming from, because the majority of 'average' pet owners don't know. Most people become defensive about their dogs if someone says anything even slightly bad (it's seen all the time at dog schools) so to insult someones dog or say anything derogatory about it will stop them listening quick smart! We need people to listen to help all those poor puppy farm dogs out there.

This part might be controversial, but the problem is that there is a real market for them. Where there is a demand for them you are always going to have people trying to supply to meet the demand. Is it a matter of purely educating people that there are other purebreeds out there than can meet their criteria? I and most of you would love it if it was that simple but the fact of the matter its not. Time and time again I have asked people why they got an oodle and they all say 'because I don't want my dog to look exactly like a poodle, I like the breed its crossed with, it doesn't shed and so and so has one that I liked so I got one too.'

Most of them don't know that temperament can't be guaranteed or that not all don't shed or that it could end up growing up to look exactly like a poodle. They also don't know that you can groom a poodle to look exactly like and oodle or that there are other dogs eg lagotto that can look just like an oodle. Also most of them don't care about these things either....

I'm a firm believer that purebreeds are best but many other people don't care. However, if they could get their oodle from an eithical breeder that does health test their breeding dogs then I'm sure they would choose this option over a puppy farm raised dog. Unfortunately I think we're fighting a losing battle and oodles are here to stay.

[whippets]

ooh Puh lease. I'm sure the dogs would be mortified.

The fact of where these dogs come from should be more than enough for a reasonably intelligent person not to support the puppy farm trade.

To many bleeding hearts where this is concerned. If people don't support the puppy farm trade then the cycle diminishes.....considerably.

Here is a nice link Puppy_Farms_In_Australia Some images may be distressing

Honey we all know this.

So ask yourself, do you help dogs when you're trying to be morally superior or will you help dogs by actually engaging people and changing their minds?

I'm sure it makes you feel good to slam them, but it doesn't help the DOGS one bit. If you want to help the dogs then you need to be smart about your approach. You need to talk about the conditions that the animals live in and not call someone's BELOVED pet an ugly mutt and a piece of crap.

People who call oodles stupid and ugly are a puppy farmers dream - it just drives ordinary people into their arms.

For the record, I own a dog who was used as a puppy farm breeder. I think they are the scum of the earth. But by being engaging and telling people my girl's story I have helped steer at least a dozen people away from puppy farmers. If I called them morons they could rightly tell me where to go. I also own an oodle. I bought him before I knew what puppy farmers were. When someone writes about stupid and ugly oodles it makes my blood boil - and I am not an advocate of oodles at all. If you turn me off, you have turned avarage Joe off a thousand times more.

Think about your objective and the most intelligent way to meet it. Taht is the only way to help the dogs suffering in puppy farm hell.

My breeding practices ARE morally and ethically superior to a puppy farmers, as are most of the registered breeders on the DoL forums.

BTW I'm not your honey. I have also had a couple of rescue dogs here but I don't present myself quite as sanctamonious as yourself. You would support a puppy farmed oodle because a registered purebreed breeder calls them ugly?........o.k.

I've had a couple of mongrels with one being the most unhealthiest of all the dogs I've owned, plus she was quite ugly. Very ugly in fact.

[Crisovar]

I work with dogs of all shapes and sizes every day, I find the the so called DD frustrating because of the crap that the people that buy them believe.

Educating people that they are being told a pack of porkies about these dogs is not going to happen by insulting the dogs.

There are some purebreed dogs I personally wouldn't own because I happen to find them very unattractive, if I was to come on here and say that XYZ were bog ugly everyone would be up in arms.

Breeders of PB are not going to win any friends insulting the dogs, they are dogs end of story, how they look and if we find them attractive or not is personal opinion.

The facts are, they are not tested for hereditary diseases, they are sold with no life time backup, bred by people with little or no knowledge about the breeds they are crossing, and are not in any way shape or form genetically superior to any other breed.

There is no way to guarantee that they do not shed, will not affect allergy sufferers or if they can wash and iron.

Ugly is a matter of opinion, some of the ones that I deal with are actually lovely looking dogs, they do not look like any breed in particular because they are not, they may be unsound, they may have naive gullible owners but they are dogs, like any other.

[becky thatcher]

Do you think shows like Better Homes and Gardens encourage these types of dogs? I am sure I saw them reviewed on there once

[megan_]

My breeding practices ARE morally and ethically superior to a puppy farmers, as are most of the registered breeders on the DoL forums.

Agreed. Never argued for puppy farmers. Rather, my point is that when you insult someone's dog (and not the puppy farm practices) you immediately create a barrier between you and them. People love their dogs regardless of where they sourced them. The issue here is how to change their minds. We all agree that puppy farms are evil.

BTW I'm not your honey. I have also had a couple of rescue dogs here but I don't present myself quite as sanctamonious as yourself. You would support a puppy farmed oodle because a registered purebreed breeder calls them ugly?........o.k.

I detract the honey statement. Steam was blowing out of my ears when I wrote that :-)

I have never claimed to be some sort of a saint? Many people have done far more to help dogs than I will ever do. I provided info about my girl because: a) I love her to bits and b) for context, lest someone think I am an oodle supporter. I would never support a puppy farmer again. But Average Joe doesn't know about their practices and they think that pure bred dogs are for showies only. If you want to change their minds then you have to engage them. If the first sentence out of your mouth is "your dog is a crapoodle" you will immediately get their back and and they'll switch off. If you introduce them to a puppy farm rescue and tell their story it is much more personal and they might actually change their mind.

I've had a couple of mongrels with one being the most unhealthiest of all the dogs I've owned, plus she was quite ugly. Very ugly in fact.

And every lab that I've ever met is obese and bloody naughty, but I'm not going to lump all labs in that bucket.