Solid Stays

[ness]

Ah I don't use a stay command at all . Sit means sit, drop means drop. She has probably only broken 2 sits in her life and I just haven't practiced them since in an obedience context .

As for my older girl I can count on a single hand how many she has broken just unfortunately for me she picked the Royal as one of them .

Edited March 2, 2010 by ness

[GRLC]

Yay , this is great everybody. I just had the biggest surprise when i logged in cause yesterday i had 0 responses and now i have 20 this is awesome !!!

What a fantastic you tube video re bomb proof stays i watched this lady before teaching drop a on recall - she has very good techniques . I will definately use this in future once i have established he understands what a stay is , and that he has (what everybody is calling it ) "steady feet ". Well I'm off to do some training

[GRLC]

And yes, keeping on topic with stays, Ruby's sit stays have gone down the toilet in the past year. If she's too hot and bothered, she thinks laying down is part of the criteria, as long as she doesn't get up (which she never has). I will be working on the steady feet game in sits now, not just standing, showing her that the criteria for a sit stay is don't move those bahluddy feet!!! Cost us our nicest score to date that stoopid stoopid sit stay

Oh Ruby Star i did see your you tube vid shame about the stays . You should be very proud of your scores for the rest of the test though fantastic work

[Yesmaam]

Hi everybody,

(This has propbaly been posted somewhere else on here already knowing my luck )

Was just wondering what techniques people have to create a solid stay with their dogs and what you may use to teach this .

I start with the basic down and gradually increase the distance between me and the dog then gradually proof the exercise with varying levels of distraction (complimented with the appropriate corrections if needed) then gradually increase distractions to a point where I can have a dog doing a send out or retrieving close by or someone swinging a long tug on a lead using high prey movement in an attempt to make the dog break.

There are many ways to skin a cat and this is just what I do

Edited March 2, 2010 by Yesmaam

[Danois]

http://www.dmantugs.com.au/challenges.htm

Following Raineth's post - here is another link to the Dane (and non-dane) Challenge re Bomb Proof Stay.

My video with Boo is there. With 5-10 mins on average a day Boo went from a dog with a shaky stay at the best of time to a dog that allowed me to throw things at him and on him, put food under his nose, walk around and over (including a stranger and another dog which is not on the video) and spray him with water.

Prior to the challenge any attempt to spray anything near him or even approach with things in my hand was met with running away and then if made to do it - met with shut down and avoidance.

At the end I put a new challenge in front of him which he had not encountered and he held the stay.

On the weekend I tested him and held him at a stay beside me while the biggest distraction possible for him (his playmate) was running around ahead of him at the beach.

So thumbs up to the kiko pup approach from me!

[RubyStar]

And yes, keeping on topic with stays, Ruby's sit stays have gone down the toilet in the past year. If she's too hot and bothered, she thinks laying down is part of the criteria, as long as she doesn't get up (which she never has). I will be working on the steady feet game in sits now, not just standing, showing her that the criteria for a sit stay is don't move those bahluddy feet!!! Cost us our nicest score to date that stoopid stoopid sit stay

Oh Ruby Star i did see your you tube vid shame about the stays . You should be very proud of your scores for the rest of the test though fantastic work

Thanks Yes I am proud of my wigglebutt Labrador

[luvsdogs]

Can someone tell me what the steady feet game is, have not heard of it b4. Thanks.

[dark angel]

Ah I don't use a stay command at all . Sit means sit, drop means drop. She has probably only broken 2 sits in her life and I just haven't practiced them since in an obedience context :D .

As for my older girl I can count on a single hand how many she has broken just unfortunately for me she picked the Royal as one of them ;) .

Ahh another person that doesnt use the stay command.So much simpler to tell a dog to sit and well thats what he does..WHy confuse the issue with sit, sit stay, sit wait etc etc etc.... if a dog sits,drops or stands he shouldnt do anything else untill hes told too.

[Staranais]

Ah I don't use a stay command at all . Sit means sit, drop means drop. She has probably only broken 2 sits in her life and I just haven't practiced them since in an obedience context :D .

As for my older girl I can count on a single hand how many she has broken just unfortunately for me she picked the Royal as one of them ;) .

Ahh another person that doesnt use the stay command.So much simpler to tell a dog to sit and well thats what he does..WHy confuse the issue with sit, sit stay, sit wait etc etc etc.... if a dog sits,drops or stands he shouldnt do anything else untill hes told too.

I can see the argument for using a "stay" command for down stays, to give the dog a heads up that they might as well settle down, cos they're going to be there a while. As opposed to a simple "down", where I might want them to remain alert because I'll expect them to jump up again in a minute. I figure my dog's on my team, why not give her all the information I can?

I too would like an explanation of the steady feet game, I haven't heard of it before.

[The Spotted Devil]

Can someone tell me what the steady feet game is, have not heard of it b4. Thanks.

Copied and pasted from a post I made in another thread here

Here is one of my problems. I've been trying to teach my young dog a good solid stand stay, which she does well except that she has a tendancy to move one or both her back feet alittle, like she is shifting her weight or something. I've only taken it to the stage where I will reward her very very often and only move 1-2 meters away from her max, continually stuffing treats in her face, I've added some distractions also, generally her foot movment occurs when I am near her and doesn't seem to have anything to do with distractions. I've tryed very hard to only reward her stays up until the point she moves a foot, resetting her once she moves but no improvment, I don't think she is aware she is doing it. She is training for agility and I have done alot of rear end awareness work with her already (ladder work, standing in her water bowl, perch work, 2o2o contact training, walking on her hind legs and early handstand work) but we have hit a bit of a wall and I don't know how to fix this. Any suggestions?

I like the "steady feet" game that I picked up at Sue Hogben's seminar. It's not the easiest thing to describe - much easier to demonstrate...however...

Initially trained in the sit position. Ask dog to sit but otherwise keep mouth SHUT (hardest bit ). Have one hand full of small pieces of yummy food. Slowly bring once piece of food with other hand towards dog's nose/mouth. Keep your eye on the dog's FEET. If the dog's feet remain perfectly still, move the food very rapidly into the dog's mouth (yum!) Make it harder. If the dog gets up or moves a paw, do NOT say a word (!!!!) - just fly the food rapidly away from the dog. Don't make it too hard or too easy. Gradually ask for more from the dog and bring the food in from every angle - above, below, on the side, behind. Zig knows the game now and my expectation that he doesn't lean towards anything but looks me directly in the eye - he's very funny :D The dog learns quickly that it's about cause and effect - then progress to the stand and start easy again, progressing to standing over your dog eventually and not having them flinch. Eventually have others approaching the dog and they get the food for staying still and looking at you. When Zig does a stand for exam, his whole body bends and leans and wags whilst he greets the judge but he never moves a foot ;)

Also great for building confidence for sit stays and food refusal (should you choose to do that one).

[Sue & Waldo]

Ah I don't use a stay command at all . Sit means sit, drop means drop. She has probably only broken 2 sits in her life and I just haven't practiced them since in an obedience context .

As for my older girl I can count on a single hand how many she has broken just unfortunately for me she picked the Royal as one of them :D .

Ahh another person that doesnt use the stay command.So much simpler to tell a dog to sit and well thats what he does..WHy confuse the issue with sit, sit stay, sit wait etc etc etc.... if a dog sits,drops or stands he shouldnt do anything else untill hes told too.

I don't use the stay command either. The instructor at my new club always tells me off so I say it (if I remember) but it is for him not Cindy. One day I am going to talk to him about it but I always chicken out! LOL

[Sue & Waldo]

Can someone tell me what the steady feet game is, have not heard of it b4. Thanks.

Copied and pasted from a post I made in another thread here

Here is one of my problems. I've been trying to teach my young dog a good solid stand stay, which she does well except that she has a tendancy to move one or both her back feet alittle, like she is shifting her weight or something. I've only taken it to the stage where I will reward her very very often and only move 1-2 meters away from her max, continually stuffing treats in her face, I've added some distractions also, generally her foot movment occurs when I am near her and doesn't seem to have anything to do with distractions. I've tryed very hard to only reward her stays up until the point she moves a foot, resetting her once she moves but no improvment, I don't think she is aware she is doing it. She is training for agility and I have done alot of rear end awareness work with her already (ladder work, standing in her water bowl, perch work, 2o2o contact training, walking on her hind legs and early handstand work) but we have hit a bit of a wall and I don't know how to fix this. Any suggestions?

I like the "steady feet" game that I picked up at Sue Hogben's seminar. It's not the easiest thing to describe - much easier to demonstrate...however...

Initially trained in the sit position. Ask dog to sit but otherwise keep mouth SHUT (hardest bit ). Have one hand full of small pieces of yummy food. Slowly bring once piece of food with other hand towards dog's nose/mouth. Keep your eye on the dog's FEET. If the dog's feet remain perfectly still, move the food very rapidly into the dog's mouth (yum!) Make it harder. If the dog gets up or moves a paw, do NOT say a word (!!!!) - just fly the food rapidly away from the dog. Don't make it too hard or too easy. Gradually ask for more from the dog and bring the food in from every angle - above, below, on the side, behind. Zig knows the game now and my expectation that he doesn't lean towards anything but looks me directly in the eye - he's very funny :D The dog learns quickly that it's about cause and effect - then progress to the stand and start easy again, progressing to standing over your dog eventually and not having them flinch. Eventually have others approaching the dog and they get the food for staying still and looking at you. When Zig does a stand for exam, his whole body bends and leans and wags whilst he greets the judge but he never moves a foot

Also great for building confidence for sit stays and food refusal (should you choose to do that one).

Well guess what we are going to be trying over the long weekend. Cindy's stays are awesome but stand for exam-surely I don't mean STAND for exam-it is sit isn't it

ETA Can't stand can't spell! What hope.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Sue & Cindy

[rastus_froggy]

I am another who does not use the stay command, I want her to sit until told otherwise and remain highly alert while sitting there - sometimes I can be walking along with her off leash and ask her to sit, I walk off and forget to release her, then I wonder where she is She is the first dog I have used this method with and will never go back.

To get bomb proof stays I started with very close stays, added distractions then length of time the distance., but each time I added distance I reduced the distractions and the duration in the beginning, then put these back in at varying levels .

I have learnt so much in the last few years and Stimpy has been trained very differently to my other dogs, I use to think they had to learn to drop, stand and walk on a loose lead. Other than being trained in agility and a few tricks there are very few other things I have ever taught her, she can sit (which is also a bomb proof stay), a 100% recall - recently tested by calling her off a full speed persuit of a rabbit through the paddock, and I taught her to walk by my side off leash and then when you add a lead you have loose leash walking.

[Sue & Waldo]

Well Cindy did SO WELL with her stay (sit and drop) this am at training. Even managed to only move 1 paw for the stand for exam. Maybe I could have a go at CCD I am thinking. Perfect recall. Great. Wonderful.

But wait there is more! Heeling with focus. Gosh I am thinking.

Then the command "Down your dogs".

Eh. What! You mean on the WET grass.? Now? Are you serious?

Oh well. I wouldn't want to get too confident would I. :D

I must say though the "steady feet" worked well so I will keep doing that.

AND DROPS!!!!!!

[Tiggy]

I like to have a stay command. I have the verbal, my hand signal and me stepping off on my right foot. I totally agree with what Staranais said "I figure my dog's on my team, why not give her all the information I can?". I want to help my dog in the ring as much as I can .

[GRLC]

I use the exact same thing Tiggy and it was working . So i have been working on the whole stays issue since my last post and the methods people have posted are working . I have gone back to basics, i really don't want this issue to continue once we start trialling in open . So i have been working on the whole 3D theory duration , distance and distractions rewarding for the behavior i want . No moving feet or fidgeting . Seems to be working ( could be a whole nother story at a trial ... you know what their like !!!!!)

Edited March 7, 2010 by GRLC

[RubyStar]

I've gone back to basics with Ruby and Millie, too, and trying out this "bombproof stay" thing that was posted. So far so good. We're clicking and treating very often, much to their delight!

[Tiggy]

It would be interesting to know if the experienced trialers use a stay command - bedazzled ptolomony help .

[GRLC]

mmmmm good question ! Does anybody use a stay command for anything other than stays and possibly SFE's ????

[RubyStar]

It would be interesting to know if the experienced trialers use a stay command - bedazzled ptolomony help .

Ptolomy uses "wait". Pretty sure bedazzled uses a command too but not sure if it's "stay" or "wait".

Just to mix it up I use "wait" for recalls or anything that I will be asking them to move off the spot (but they haven't been released from working, so recall is the best example here - the idea is that they know the have to wait there and remain alert for the next command), and "stay" for times I will be leaving them and returning to them (or releasing them from working shortly after). It's just what I learnt ages ago, and it kinda stuck

I'm contemplating trying the method of not using an extra stay command if I ever get another dog, but for now, I'll stick with my stay command! Though I have to say, working on the bombproof stay last night for the first time, it was working without the extra command.

Edited March 7, 2010 by RubyStar