Solid Stays

[GRLC]

Hi everybody,

(This has propbaly been posted somewhere else on here already knowing my luck )

Was just wondering what techniques people have to create a solid stay with their dogs and what you may use to teach this .

[GRLC]

wow , so many responses . Which one should i read first ????.

[bedazzledx2]

Sorry GRLC I sometimes hesitate to offer training advice here as there are so many differing philosophies I guess I need a bit more information first. How old is your dog? Have you been training at club....at what level? Have you actually started training stays or up you fixing things?

wow , so many responses . Which one should i read first ????.

[GRLC]

Thats ok i just thought that with 68 people viewing the topic you would think someone would answer !! Well im looking for ways of proofing my boy . He Usually does really well at stays but lately he has decided that he wants to get up when other dogs are wandering around or he just likes to fidget (when he fidgets he doesn't usually move up off the ground, in a drop stay he will pick at the grass and sniff the grass and in a sit stay he seems to just re adjust his front feet , i really don't like fidgeting as feel it leads to wandering ) He can also be really grumpy toward other dogs that come into his space which makes me really nervous and I'm really just trying to find out what other people do to proof their dogs in these circumstances. We are currently training for open and this issue has just come about of late . Diesel is 5 years old but we have only been competing for a couple of years. He has his CCD and CD titles . I do train at club twice a week where we get to do stays but not proofing staysdue to the different levels in our class (we are a very small club) . Any ideas would be great . Thanks

[Seita]

do a bit of a search on stays, breaking stays, teaching solid stays etc and I'm sure you'll come up with several threads on the topic.

I work on a basic philosophy with stays: time before distance before distractions. I don't like setting dogs up to fail so I work on length of the stay first, then I increase the distance gradually and then gradually introduce distractions.

[bedazzledx2]

I would be inclined to go back to the beginning and train steady feet. Do it outside the context of a group stay and don't cue it....(you may have yourself a poisoned cue) Work on steady feet in the sit stay first in very small increments and reward in position and break off with your release word. Rinse and repeat. Vary the length of time and distance and when you think he's good with that add proofing. I wouldn't be doing group stays for a while.

I'm getting ready to go out (last day of the Western Classic) so will get back to you tomorrow.

Thats ok i just thought that with 68 people viewing the topic you would think someone would answer !! Well im looking for ways of proofing my boy . He Usually does really well at stays but lately he has decided that he wants to get up when other dogs are wandering around or he just likes to fidget (when he fidgets he doesn't usually move up off the ground, in a drop stay he will pick at the grass and sniff the grass and in a sit stay he seems to just re adjust his front feet , i really don't like fidgeting as feel it leads to wandering ) He can also be really grumpy toward other dogs that come into his space which makes me really nervous and I'm really just trying to find out what other people do to proof their dogs in these circumstances. We are currently training for open and this issue has just come about of late . Diesel is 5 years old but we have only been competing for a couple of years. He has his CCD and CD titles . I do train at club twice a week where we get to do stays but not proofing staysdue to the different levels in our class (we are a very small club) . Any ideas would be great . Thanks

[GRLC]

Thanks guys , will definately try going back to basics with him . Why do we punish ourselves like this ??? . You think you can be on the right track for so long and then these thing raise their ugly heads . All experience though we learn through our mistakes .

ooh good luck in the western classic .

Edited March 1, 2010 by GRLC

[bedazzledx2]

Thanx Teams tonight so a bit more relaxed.

Thanks guys , will definately try going back to basics with him . Why do we punish ourselves like this ??? . You think you can be on the right track for so long and then these thing raise their ugly heads . All experience though we learn through our mistakes .

ooh good luck in the western classic .

[The Spotted Devil]

Love the steady feet game here too I think you need to make staying just incredibly rewarding. Make sure the dog TRULY understands the concept of stay. I like to reward focus on me as well as Zig initially whined and looked around at the other dogs...I suspect out of frustration that he couldn't meet and greet.

[raineth]

Oh I have been meaning to post an answer since I saw this thread!

I really love the clicker method of training a stay. I can't reccommend it highly enough. In the Dane thread and the muttly thread we have been actually just had a little competition to train a bomb-proof stay. We used this video as a basis for our training:

kiko pup

please have a look at it as its absolutely awesome!!!

I trained my boy using this method for two weeks. He is a rescue and I have only had him for a few weeks when began the training.

that just illustrated what you can achieve in a short time even with a dog that has noise fears and has had very little training

[raineth]

Thats ok i just thought that with 68 people viewing the topic you would think someone would answer !! Well im looking for ways of proofing my boy . He Usually does really well at stays but lately he has decided that he wants to get up when other dogs are wandering around or he just likes to fidget (when he fidgets he doesn't usually move up off the ground, in a drop stay he will pick at the grass and sniff the grass and in a sit stay he seems to just re adjust his front feet , i really don't like fidgeting as feel it leads to wandering ) He can also be really grumpy toward other dogs that come into his space which makes me really nervous and I'm really just trying to find out what other people do to proof their dogs in these circumstances. We are currently training for open and this issue has just come about of late . Diesel is 5 years old but we have only been competing for a couple of years. He has his CCD and CD titles . I do train at club twice a week where we get to do stays but not proofing staysdue to the different levels in our class (we are a very small club) . Any ideas would be great . Thanks

then I really think the above method will work really well; as you end up conditioning the dog to think that any distraction (including other dogs) is a positive thing - not something to be worried about.

[BeagleBoys2]

I remember starting out with my first dog. His stays were rock solid until my husband took him away on a camping trip. Who knows what happened in his little mind at the time...

Anyway, when he started breaking his stays veteran traillers simply commented, "He doesn't understand what stay means."

Okay, great and how do you fix that if it is in fact the reason. No one would tell me but with dog number four well and truly on her way I know!

Proofing is easy as it turns out and there are a number of ways to do it.

1. Using a flat collar, lead and a clicker. Put your dog into the desired position, give the stay commond and then pull on the lead. When the dog automatically applies the same pressure and remains in the position click the result and reward. Eventually you should be able to do this at any angle and with any amount of pressure.

2. Put your dog in the desired position, give the stay command and then throw a treat at it. At first you might need to be rather close so you can retrieve the treat before your dog if it breaks position. However, now I can through a dozen treats in front of my dog and he will not get up until I release him and he collects all the food rewards.

3. Put your dog in the desire position, give the stay command and bounce a ball if this is what gets your dog going. Using a clicker in this option is easy. Click the result desired and reward.

We have Beagles in Open and a GSP on her way to trialling.

Edited March 2, 2010 by BeagleBoys2

[huski]

Dog number four hey Shelley - another beag or GSP or something else??

[BeagleBoys2]

Dog number four hey Shelley - another beag or GSP or something else??

Quinn, our GSP is dog number four.

After three Beagles she is simply easy...and such a delight.

Of course there will be dog number five but not until Quinn's first litter which I am hoping for in late 2011.

[huski]

Dog number four hey Shelley - another beag or GSP or something else??

Quinn, our GSP is dog number four.

After three Beagles she is simply easy...and such a delight.

Of course there will be dog number five but not until Quinn's first litter which I am hoping for in late 2011.

Oh sorry Shelley I thought you were saying you were getting a fourth dog to go with the three you already have

See, trial with a beagle and then anything else is a breeze

[RubyStar]

I'm thinking the same could be said for trialling a Lab, huski

[huski]

I'm thinking the same could be said for trialling a Lab, huski

Wanna trade? You can have the Evil Beagle, I'll have either of your labs

I am being a bit silly admittantly - Daisy is pretty good, I just needed to find the right motivation and method to channel her drive/natural instincts (she still has moments of evilness though).

On the topic of stays (just so I'm not totally railroading the thread) I find mixing it up with stays has helped. I find that Daisy can get bored with stays so I've been trying to build anticipation a bit by releasing her after a couple of seconds, then after twenty seconds, then after five seconds etc etc to keep her on her toes.

[RubyStar]

After training tearaway puppy Ruby, training adult rescue Millie was a BREEZE!!!! Now they're on par with each other, but excelling at different things showing us that all dogs truly are individuals

And yes, keeping on topic with stays, Ruby's sit stays have gone down the toilet in the past year. If she's too hot and bothered, she thinks laying down is part of the criteria, as long as she doesn't get up (which she never has). I will be working on the steady feet game in sits now, not just standing, showing her that the criteria for a sit stay is don't move those bahluddy feet!!! Cost us our nicest score to date that stoopid stoopid sit stay

[ness]

Kenz isn't even in the ring yet and she can't understand the point of a sit stay - if your going to sit in front of a jump for agility sure but otherwise mum I'll just make myself nice and comfy laying down because if I am going to have to stay for any length of time I might as well make myself comfy.

Ness on the other hand is probably one of a handful of dogs who has broken a drop stay by sitting up - argh cost me a third place on a brilliant score in Open at the Royal and its still a painful memory .

[BeagleBoys2]

Kenz isn't even in the ring yet and she can't understand the point of a sit stay - if your going to sit in front of a jump for agility sure but otherwise mum I'll just make myself nice and comfy laying down because if I am going to have to stay for any length of time I might as well make myself comfy.

Ness on the other hand is probably one of a handful of dogs who has broken a drop stay by sitting up - argh cost me a third place on a brilliant score in Open at the Royal and its still a painful memory .

See and right there...your dog doesn't understand what stay means.

To me what your dog is doing means wait in my dogs lives. Wait means wait in that spot for me to release you or return.

But stay is a whole other ball game. It means stay in the spot and position I leave you in until you are told by me to do otherwise.