Kei Has A Lump

[Red Fox]

Kei has a lump in his side. It is hard and quite deep in - it feels like a rib.

Today I took him to the vet to have it checked out. She had a very good feel of it and said she also thinks it may be one of the very last shorter ribs that dogs have and that it's just more prominant in that side. (It can't be felt in the other)

It is too deep to just do a biopsy (plus if it is a rib we dont want to be sticking a needle in it ) so the only way to be absolutely sure is to do an x-ray. However, as it's not painful or growing there is no rush to do this.

The ball has now been left in my court and I'm not sure what to do?

My gut instinct is saying to take him to a chiro and have him checked out. Unfortunately we dont have any in our area so it means an 8 hour round trip to do that so it might not happen immediately. Other option is to see a bowen therapist who may or may not be able to help (but I have access to locally so can't hurt to try).

An x-ray seems to be a bit overkill at the moment but maybe I should just do it to put my mind at ease...

Has anybody else been in this situation?

For those that do use chiros for their dogs - do you think that this would be a better option? I mean a chiro should have a pretty good idea whether it a bone or not? shouldn't they?

ETA: Kei is only 17 months old

Edited March 11, 2010 by SecretKei

[SeeGee]

If it was really bothering me I would do the xray just to put my mind at ease. I cant stand not knowing, and if its something serious its worth the money spent - if its not id feel better

Thanks

Jacqui

[Red Fox]

If it was really bothering me I would do the xray just to put my mind at ease. I cant stand not knowing, and if its something serious its worth the money spent - if its not id feel better

Thanks

Jacqui

It's not about the money by any means and yes, I'd rather not have the worry.

But I'm more concerned about sedating him for an x-ray if it's something that can easily be dealt with be a chiro...

Sedations and anaesthetics can wreak havok on the body so I prefer to avoid them where I can.

If the vet had seemed OTT concerned about it I would have insisted on having him x-rayed ASAP. So at this stage it is definitely an option but not an urgent (or preferable) one.

[SeeGee]

I didnt think about the anaesthetic/sedation......kinda mean if its not necessary I guess - I really hadnt taken that into account.

Its a tough one. Bowen, then Chiro, then x ray?

[puggy_puggy]

Perhaps sedation would not be necessary for the xray. Did they vet say he would have to be put under to xray?

Is your dog overweight? The Floating/sticking out rib is usually pretty easy to see and feel. I have seen quite a few pugs with it and yes it has only ever been on one side.

[Red Fox]

Perhaps sedation would not be necessary for the xray. Did they vet say he would have to be put under to xray?

Is your dog overweight? The Floating/sticking out rib is usually pretty easy to see and feel. I have seen quite a few pugs with it and yes it has only ever been on one side.

Thanks Puggy, he is quite lean and of course still quite young so it may very well be a floating rib. It's easy to feel and only just visable when Kei is stretched out on his side - not so obvious when he is standing though. It's reassuring to know that you have seen similar in Pugs

Unfortuantely Kei is easily stressed and the vet said she would only x-ray him under sedation.

[Red Fox]

Just did a Google search and it seems that 'floating rib' fits the description of Kei's 'lump' very well. It is on his right hand side, just after his ribcage and maybe 2"-3 down from his spine. It certainly feels like an extra rib, but very short and sticky outy. It doesn't seem to be quite in line with the others either and can only be felt on the one side.

Has anyone had any experience with this and can it cause any probs? Can it be mainpulated back into place by a chiro? (if it even is out of place to begin with).

Of course I dont want to self diagnose but I may as well look into it...

[Erny]

If it were me, I'd go the Bowen Therapist - see what he/she has to say.

Then I'd go the Chiro, if the Bowen Therapist can't put your mind at ease.

I'm wondering if there's been a growth spurt and that's why it has drawn your attention. Hard to know without seeing/feeling it. I know with Mandela, I looked at his under-chest and thought wow! it seems out of shape. It seemed to happen suddenly, and it still is a bit squarish, but he seems to be growing into it now. Not the same as your situation I know, but just an example of how things can suddenly change. (Given all the other health issues I've had with him since 3 days into my ownership of him, I initially started to wonder if he was going to become all deformed .... but no, it is looking more normal now than it did at first, because his chest has deepened.)

I'm with you - I work my darndest to avoid GA if I possibly can and I think you will be happier if you know that you have crossed out the first two suggested alternatives available to you, even if you need to follow through with the second one and cop that 8 hour trip (which I admit, is no mean feat).

ETA: Sorry - I wrote this post ages ago, but got interrupted by the telephone, so I've submitted it somewhat late.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

Further to your post - if it is a "Floating Rib" from what I can gather (not a great deal about it via internet) most if not all mammals have this. I think it is a case of whether it sticks out more for one than it does the other. Reading "Ask the Vet" answers, it doesn't seem to be a big deal, although I read one dog-owner's post who said she had her dog's floating rib trimmed when she was in for spaying, so that it wouldn't get knocked on anything.

I think I'd be inclined to at least ring the chiropractor and ask what his/her thoughts are about it, and whether there is any manipulation necessary/advisable. I'm only thinking that we me, sometimes my ribs are out (and I think that stems from my back) and my chiro has fixed that - perhaps this is why it is suddenly more noticeable now than it was before?

Edited February 26, 2010 by Erny

[Red Fox]

Thanks Erny. I think I will go for bowen, chiro then x-rays in that order. If I can avoid the GA I will be much happier

I did ring the chiro a few days ago and he advides me to see the vet first, bowen therapist also cancelled on me when I told him about the 'lump' and asked me to call him back next week Funnily enough he also suggested that it might be a rib, though when I called the chiro he told me that a rib out of place would be causing severe pain after eating (which this is not).

Yep, I read all the things that Google brought up too lol. From what I understood all animals have 'floating ribs' but it can be more obvious on certain induviduals, or they can have ribs which are slightly out of place. I did also read somewhere that the rib can be manipulated back into place but I've no idea if this is true or not

[cavNrott]

My 5 1/2yo Cavalier boy had a laminectomy 2 months ago for a ruptured disc. In the course of the xrays it was found that he had an 'extra' rib on the right side. It sounds exactly as you describe in your boy. He has this only on the right side of his body. Now that I know it's there I can feel it easily.

The surgeon who did the laminectomy assured me that there are no problems with this and it's not as rare as we think it is.

[Erny]

... when I called the chiro he told me that a rib out of place would be causing severe pain after eating (which this is not).

I remember having pain myself, when my ribs were out. Although it wasn't affected by eating - it was breathing that hurt.

Seeing as your Bowen Therapist is closer, maybe go back to him/her now that you've seen the Vet. The BT should be able to tell if something's out, I presume? I would also like to think he/she would be able to give you a 2nd opinion as to whether it is indeed a "floating rib".

Must be hard to not have these people as 'on tap' as we do. Not only can we see either or both, but if we're not sure of one there are other good ones around that are fairly easily accessible.

[Red Fox]

My 5 1/2yo Cavalier boy had a laminectomy 2 months ago for a ruptured disc. In the course of the xrays it was found that he had an 'extra' rib on the right side. It sounds exactly as you describe in your boy. He has this only on the right side of his body. Now that I know it's there I can feel it easily.

The surgeon who did the laminectomy assured me that there are no problems with this and it's not as rare as we think it is.

Wow, that's really interesting! It does feel like an 'extra' rib but I just presumed that was impossible. Seems it not!

... when I called the chiro he told me that a rib out of place would be causing severe pain after eating (which this is not).

I remember having pain myself, when my ribs were out. Although it wasn't affected by eating - it was breathing that hurt.

Seeing as your Bowen Therapist is closer, maybe go back to him/her now that you've seen the Vet. The BT should be able to tell if something's out, I presume? I would also like to think he/she would be able to give you a 2nd opinion as to whether it is indeed a "floating rib".

Must be hard to not have these people as 'on tap' as we do. Not only can we see either or both, but if we're not sure of one there are other good ones around that are fairly easily accessible.

Thanks Erny. He's not in pain at all - unless he is hiding it very well. He does however seem to be a little 'slower' than usual if that makes sense..?

Yes, it's a PITA living here and not having the choice. Haven't seen the local BT yet so don't know how good he is but do have the phone no. of another one who is supposedly very good and visits here every few weeks so at least there is that option. We did have an appointment on Wednesday with the but but he cancelled as he wanted me to have the lump checked first.

To be honest I'm a little wary of chiros :rolleyes: I've never seen one myself and unfortunately my Mum's cousin had his spinal cord severed by a (not very good) chiro a few years back - needless to say that put me off Scary stuff! But in Kei's case it may be our best option. The chiro who has been recommended to me is supposed to be very good. Pity he is so far away though

[OSoSwift]

I would try bowen, chiro, then xray as well. If he didn't need sedation I would just xray.

I have had 3 animals xrayed with no sedation as they were all relaxed and stayed really well when told.

I have also recently had Bowen done on Lewis and whilst I love it for myself have never had it done on a dog. I was amazed at the huge difference in a short period of time.

I have seen dogs and cats over time with some unusual rib bits that stick out to varying degrees. None of the ones I hvae seen have been a mojor issue. I remember one cat who's sternum had like a little curved bit that would sometimes stick out sometimes not.

As Kei is a young dog I would not be as worried about the more sinister senarios. It is not unheard of for a young animal to have something nasty, but is certainly not very common.

Chances are it is something that is special to him and not harmful

[Red Fox]

Chances are it is something that is special to him and not harmful

Yes, I hope so

Bowen is sounding quite positive so we will definitely give it a go.

As for x-raying, Kei becomes very tense and frightened at the vets. He will simply not relax enough to not need a sedation. Having him stand for his examination today was a struggle enough, the poor boy just wanted to flatten himself to the ground and pretend it wasn't happening.

The vet today could not say 100% that it was a rib, only that it was her gut feeling after examining him. The only way to tell for sure is to x-ray.

Being that he is young I'm happy to try a few alternate therapies first and just keep an eye on it. If there are no changes then I can always have it x-rayed if and when he is desexed :rolleyes:

[OSoSwift]

Chances are it is something that is special to him and not harmful

Yes, I hope so

Bowen is sounding quite positive so we will definitely give it a go.

As for x-raying, Kei becomes very tense and frightened at the vets. He will simply not relax enough to not need a sedation. Having him stand for his examination today was a struggle enough, the poor boy just wanted to flatten himself to the ground and pretend it wasn't happening.

The vet today could not say 100% that it was a rib, only that it was her gut feeling after examining him. The only way to tell for sure is to x-ray.

Being that he is young I'm happy to try a few alternate therapies first and just keep an eye on it. If there are no changes then I can always have it x-rayed if and when he is desexed :rolleyes:

Aww poor Kei - mine are usually trying to give the vet a good tounge bath!

Sounds like a plan, I wouldn't be as worried in a younger dog. If he was older then yes. Maybe he is just an individual! I know Lewis definately is

[Red Fox]

Just thought I'd update this.

We had our chiro appointment today (the Bowen therapist wouldn't touch Kei in case there was a dis-placed rib so straight to chiro).

It turns out cavNrott was right - Kei's 'lump' is most certainly an extra rib!

[cavNrott]

Just thought I'd update this.

We had our chiro appointment today (the Bowen therapist wouldn't touch Kei in case there was a dis-placed rib so straight to chiro).

It turns out cavNrott was right - Kei's 'lump' is most certainly an extra rib!

Thanks for the update SecretKei, I was wondering how it all went with Kei. Good to hear he's ok.

I had no idea Bronson had an extra rib until the surgeon showed me the xray and explained it to me. Had I felt this hard lump before this happened I would have been panic stricken. The possibility of it being an extra rib would never have occurred to me.

Bronson was a tad overweight so it wasn't evident because it was covered by a layer of fat. Now he's at his ideal weight it's easy to feel it. Gotta say it feels a bit weird and I'm very glad I know what it is.

[Red Fox]

Thanks for the update SecretKei, I was wondering how it all went with Kei. Good to hear he's ok.

I had no idea Bronson had an extra rib until the surgeon showed me the xray and explained it to me. Had I felt this hard lump before this happened I would have been panic stricken. The possibility of it being an extra rib would never have occurred to me.

Bronson was a tad overweight so it wasn't evident because it was covered by a layer of fat. Now he's at his ideal weight it's easy to feel it. Gotta say it feels a bit weird and I'm very glad I know what it is.

Yep, I'm glad that I know what it is now too

Kei has never been overweight but he did have a recent tummy bug which caused him to lose a slight amount of weight and made the rib much more obvious and easy to feel.

Interestingly enough the area of his back where he was out relates back to digestive health issues so it may hve all been inter-related all along.