Fighting Pups & Growling At Humans.

[Savane]

I didn't want to bring this up to have people tell me I shouldn't have got 2 puppies at once, obviously I have so it's pointless information, but this place has such a wealth of dog knowledge I am hoping for some idea's.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Savane

[Stitch]

Who is supplying the discipline at this stage???

Puppys are no different to children and they need a well balanced and consistent 'leader'.

If there is no leader (their mum used to be the leader) then they will do exactly what they like with little or no consequences with probably not what you may have in mind as the optimum outcome.

Have you got them walking on a lead yet?? That's something you can start teaching around the backyard.

You can also start teaching them little things like "sit". Do you give them separate, daily, training sessions. Training sessions only have to be 5-10 minutes but it puts you in the position of leader.

As you have said you have given yourself more of a challenge by having two at the same time/age but now it is up to you to guide them.

Start puppy preschool as soon as you can and continue on with weekly dog training classes and daily training.

It is surprising how quickly puppys learn.

[Kavik]

The two breeds may have different play styles whcih may be causing some of the friction. I know my Kelpies have a different play style to my GSD (GSD is much more physical in his play). They certainly have a different play style than gundogs. Don't know how Ridgeys play.

What do you do at the moment if the play gets too rough and they get snarly?

Can you clarify the situation where the BC snapped at the child? You were cuddling the dog and the child came up? What was happening when the Ridgey growled at you? It is not very clear in your post what was happening at the time.

[JulesP]

Hard to give advice without seeing what is going on. My 12 week old border collie plays with the 2 older border collies and it certainly looks and sounds very nasty. Lots of growling and snapping. They all end up covered in spit. They are just playing though.

[Dogsfevr]

What is the goldie doing during these phases.

Its important to remember this is a 3 dog household & not just 2 pups.

[Savane]

The Golden basically ignores them, when he does join in he growls at the Ridgey, who does listen, looks bashful and slinks off. He almost doesn't seem to like the Ridgy at times, the Ridgy loves him he's always kissing his mouth.

We start at Dog Club in a couple of weeks with the Collie and about 4 weeks with the Ridgy. They are both lead walking, although Collie wants to chew the lead I am onto that, and they both know sit already, they are quiet smart. My son was supposed to be training the Collie

I am supplying the discipline, and to give them both a break from the fighting when inside they are seperate one in the laundry and the other in a pen in the lounge (Ridgy).

When they do get too full on I tell them no and tell them to break it up, they NEVER try this behaviour with my much older Golden.

When the Ridgeback growled at me I was on the floor with him and giving him a cuddle, he seemed to just not kie it growled got up and moved away. Maybe he hates cuddles? The child was no where near us, he wasn't home.

[Stitch]

As others have previously said, it is hard to judge without seeing them in action but if it was me I would be initially concentrating on the Ridgeback. This being the biggest dog and the one that growled at you.

Do you practice the 'leader' thing by always being the one that walks through the door/gate etc. first? Plus all the other leader things??

I agree that sometimes you have to give them alone time, if only for your own sanity however what you would hopefully be aiming at, was to be the alpha dog yourself and have your pack, which by the sound of it is what you now have, behaving themselves according to your rules so that you didn't have to separate them in order to get peace and quiet.

So many little things that dogs pick up on - things that to us are not important but to them indicate that we are not giving strong leadership.

A puppy that growled at an adult in a pack situation would be very quickly put in its place.

All that being said they are still only puppies - but of course it is better to correct behaviours now, not later when they get some size to them.

Good luck, I currently have a litter of 6 puppies of the same age so I am suffering too. It is not easy setting the ground rules but they are capable of understanding and learning. I am looking forward to next week when they go to their new homes.

[Savane]

As others have previously said, it is hard to judge without seeing them in action but if it was me I would be initially concentrating on the Ridgeback. This being the biggest dog and the one that growled at you.

Do you practice the 'leader' thing by always being the one that walks through the door/gate etc. first? Plus all the other leader things??

I agree that sometimes you have to give them alone time, if only for your own sanity however what you would hopefully be aiming at, was to be the alpha dog yourself and have your pack, which by the sound of it is what you now have, behaving themselves according to your rules so that you didn't have to separate them in order to get peace and quiet.

So many little things that dogs pick up on - things that to us are not important but to them indicate that we are not giving strong leadership.

A puppy that growled at an adult in a pack situation would be very quickly put in its place.

All that being said they are still only puppies - but of course it is better to correct behaviours now, not later when they get some size to them.

Good luck, I currently have a litter of 6 puppies of the same age so I am suffering too. It is not easy setting the ground rules but they are capable of understanding and learning. I am looking forward to next week when they go to their new homes. :D

.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Savane

[Kavik]

How old is your son?

Where did you get the BC?

[Savane]

How old is your son?

Where did you get the BC?

He's 11. We got him from breeders in the Dandenongs ad I met the puppies parents, their temperament seemed good. My son is possibly to kind in his approach to the dog, I have told him when he seperates them from fighting he must growl firmer at the Collie. I gave him am example this morning when both dogs were chasing the chickens. Were also getting strict when on lead, I had let the odd chewing the lead go with the Collie. But now I'm getting firm.

[Kavik]

I would not have your son do the separating of the dogs when they are worked up. Best that you do that for now, until you have things more under control. It is easy for things to get carried away with young dogs.

[Clyde]

Your son is a child and shouldn't be relied upon for breaking up fights.

Personally I would rehome one pup now while it is still a cute little pup, then think about another when you have the first one trained.

[persephone]

I agree that an 11 YO should not feel he is responsible for trying to control pups with issues .

It's kids controlling kids :D

[Savane]

I agree that an 11 YO should not feel he is responsible for trying to control pups with issues .

It's kids controlling kids :D

It will be his dog, he needs to learn how to train the dog and be the learder of this dog. I can't be with the dogs every minute of the day, there are 3 children sometimes other things need attending too, he was there at the time. I don't think trying to make me feel guilty is really going to solve this problem.

I wanted to try and address the issue without resorting to rehoming the Collie, my son is quiet attached to it.

[Paganman]

I agree with the others, you carnt rely on a child to train the dog.Breaking up scrapping dogs can be dangerous specially when they get bigger.Do you take the pups to puppy school/obedience?I dont believe the BCs aggressive its rare that a pup that age is he just needs training and obedience school will teach you how to train the pups properly.As for BCs being intense theyre a working breed

[Savane]

I agree with the others, you carnt rely on a child to train the dog.Breaking up scrapping dogs can be dangerous specially when they get bigger.Do you take the pups to puppy school/obedience?I dont believe the BCs aggressive its rare that a pup that age is he just needs training and obedience school will teach you how to train the pups properly.As for BCs being intense theyre a working breed

Maybe your right. I trained my dog, I was only 3 years older, we trialed and got titles, I also had a working dog, but maybe that 3 years makes all the difference I don't know. I was an extreamely troubled child and the dog training and close bond we had completely changed me I was hoping for the same thing for my son, that this would be another interest for him and perhaps bring him out of his shell a bit.

Our plan was obediance/agility/endurance for both the dogs, we also walk a lot I take them out 3 times a day and they run in the paddock too and I am home a lot so they getting a lot of attention, I though our home would be a good one for them.

[persephone]

he needs to learn how to train the dog and be the learder of this dog.

yes, he does. But starting off with TWO pups puts a whole different slant on things.

He is only 11... at that stage ,I believe brain/psycholgical development is a lot different to a 13 year old, as you were. You also, as you said had not much else BUT your dog... and I am supposing you were terribly focussed on giving it your all- and proving yourself capable .

May I also suggest that a kid who needs to' come out of his shell'- may NOT have the calm and assertive body language/voice/handling skills needed at present .

I am also guessing he has not had much dog handling experience before?

It seems to me a bit like giving a youngster his first pushbike- no training wheels..and then saying "Ok here's your paper round map- off you go!".

I am so sorry things have not worked out as you hoped- and sorry that it will now take work and support to achieve your hopes.

Please seek the advice of a professional- an experienced view ,thru a fresh pair of eyes can work wonders!

:D

[lappiemum]

I would have a behavourist come in - someone who can assess things in your home environment and give you advice and support on what you need to do.

I had two pups at once - you can do it, you just need to be smarter than the dogs!LOL

[Savane]

Thanks for all the replies and Pm's, were not ina place ATM to be able to afford a huge amt of outside help, however things do seem to have improved over the weekend.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Savane

[Mas1981]

When the dogs growl at one another how do you handle it?? I used to say a firm "NO' to my ridgey and then put her by herself in a time out which she HATED but it got her thinking twice about growling, she used to growl at me often and she used to fight with her sister. I have gotten 2 puppies at once and i dont envy you they are very hard work but loads of people in our club have done it and the dogs are doing well.

Let us know how you go.