Please Define 'game'

[justin19801]

I always thought "game" meant "up for the any challenge" or "have an attempt with confidence".

best definition i've seen yet

[Jed]

And the opposite of game, a lack of gameness. It is instability and insecurity. Not good or safe traits in a family pet.

WRONG! Group 3 dogs, in general, are not supposed to show tenacity of bite or any HA or DA tendencies, and supposed to have soft mouths. Guide dogs, for example, are not insecure and unstable. Sadly, they tend to get bested when a DA dog under some idiot's lack of control attacks them. I agree with most people that focus should be on the owner. I think any bloke whose dog attacks a guide dog should be castrated and locked up for awhile . . . after that the dog issue may subside. But legal systems are not very good at targeting yabo owners.

Nuh. Any breed can be "game". Greytmate explained about greyhounds, terriers can be game, it's not dog aggression, it's courage and guts. I don't know heaps about a lot of Gr. 3 dogs, but some cockers are very game.

I have one who is, he is safe and trustworthy with kids, if he fetches a bird, not a feather is ruffled. He'll kill rats though. He has been set on twice by bigger dogs, and bested them - he simply pushes them over and stands over them. He wins by force of will. If he was set on by a serious fighter, he'd be dead. He's a very secure, stable dog who is extremely good natured - and fits the cocker standard for temperament very well. I've owned a few over the years, this is the only one who is "game".

It is about stability. Have a look on the forum - a lot having trouble with dogs have fearful dogs, with no nerve. And I think guide dogs, when working, would not even consider taking part in a dog fight. Which doesn't make them insecure, only well trained.

A dog will good nerve is a good dog, he behaves well because he is confident and secure. A game dog is the same, only better, but he is often not a dog for the novice owner.

"Game" is about nerve and bottle.

Greytmate

The game dog doesn't hesitate at things like fluttering tarpaulins.

The dog with good nerve doesn't hesitate.

The game dog probably jumps on it, or looks under it or pees on it.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Jed

[chrisjc]

a dogs gameness will depend on the task it was breed for, and the opinions of who thinks what is going to depend on the task of the dog at hand.

a vast amount of different breed advocates will claim their dog has a degree of gameness, ie terrier type dogs when hunting will never give up at their given task until it is complete even if that means dieing in the process wheather that means they die out from exausting themselves or at the hands of the animal they are hunting, ive hunted with some little fox terriers that were so dead set on the task at hand we would lose them for hours at a time after dead ending a fox in its den.

A retreiving dogs owner may claim that their dogs gameness is is gauged by its ability to work quickly and with efficiency in working in unfavourable and long conditions.

A Guide dogs trainer may gauge it through its ability to work unneffected all day never waivering at its given task.

every single working breed person who actually owns working dogs will say their dog has a degree of gameness, the biggest thing all of their reasons will have in common is the the dog will have a willingness to work at the task at hand.

having a dog that is game is in no way to be related to da or ha.

[doit4thedogz]

They speak of lock jaw in the APBT which we know is incorrect as far as it's jaw structure goes, but where they hang on to finish the job regardless if someone kicks, punches, puts the hose on them etc etc to break up a fight, the "gameness" of the dog is what keeps the dog fighting on despite all attempts to stop it.

A ranger told me once that gameness in a dog if a fight erupts don't back off until the fight is over regardless what instigated the fight. A dog that isn't "game" can be easily stopped from fighting, a kick or punch, hosing them down, or even yelling at them will cause a retreat which the ranger I recall told me was the difference???. He also said that some dogs have a vision for threat removal where they will bite if challenged, but if the threat retreats, the job is done. Some which is often consistant with the APBT if a fight develops, they fight to the end and virtually nothing will stop them???.

He was totally wrong.

Good posts "Greytmate"

Which part is totally wrong rottiadore , most of what the ranger told me reflects the same as what Greytmate has told us???

A game dog "can" be handled and stopped from fighting whilst retaining a will to win because of their level head. That is one of the things looked for in a pit fighting dog. Nobody wants a dog that can't be stopped or controlled by a handler. Both dogs must be able to fight another day.

That's a training issue and is often the most difficult thing to teach in Schutzhund for a determined "game" dog to out on command and not re-engage. Untrained dogs in the fight will not out and the gamer the dog, the less likelihood of stopping the fight.

I agree with Longcoat stopping and dog is more of a training issue. A dog can be 'game' as anything, but if too dumb to learn anything useful then what good is the 'game'. Also a 'game' dog aggressive dog will no doubt be harder to release. And if you think the 'fight' can be trained out of all dogs, then good luck.

I think it was easier for the dogfighters to realease by force rather than trying to train the dogs to realease on command.

And Rottidora- Both dogs don't have to live to fight another day. Unless your talking rotti fights lol.

[sandgrubber]

I sense that definitions given range from "happy to start" and "slow to quit". Personally, I avoid dogs that don't have an off button . . . and a dog with a low engagement threshold who won't give up is, in my books a nightmare. I've never used the word 'game' for a dog, and I guess I'll avoid the word in future given how many different meanings the word seems to have.

Edited March 18, 2010 by sandgrubber

[chrisjc]

There is only one type of "gameness" and that is the will to never give up no matter what stands in front of you.

But everysingle person would have a different way of translating it to suit themselves, hence my previous post.

[OzPit]

And Rottidora- Both dogs don't have to live to fight another day. Unless your talking rotti fights lol.

They don't have to, no, but the dogmen certainly preferred if they did. Betting on the dogs was a large part of the sport and nobody wants their source of income getting obliterated before their eyes.

Regarding the definition of "gameness" - it depends on the breed. It has a specialised definition in the APBT world but I would assume that definition would vary according to the breed it's used in relation to.

[geo]

Game dogs can be trained to do whatever. Depends on the skill of the trainer and the intelligence of the dog.

Dogs that lack gameness cannot have gameness trained into them.

For instance, a dog that hesitates when it gets to a fluttering tarpaulin can be trained to ignore all fluttering tarpaulins. But that won't stop them hesitating when they get to something else new and weird and noisy.

The game dog doesn't hesitate at things like fluttering tarpaulins.

Training is something quite separate from gameness. But you probably would be training a lot differently with a game dog than you would with a dog that isn't game.

i sort of agree but our older bitch is scared of a lot of things, ie sudden noises, plastc bags etc.. thunder and lightning doesn't scare her though.

but she has 2 personalities, when out bush she becomes so driven it's rediculous, not scared of anything, always on the hunt.

She is dominant around other dogs and has no fear of them, she leaves them alone, she has had another dog have a go at her where i pulled her of it before any serious harm was done. I'm not calling her game, but i think the correlation between her being scared of one thing then showing complete confidence and strength in another situation bares no resemblance on her gameness.

Then again i think she may leg it if a bigger dog decided it was boss.

[sandgrubber]

Thinking about this thread, some day I think I'll have a 'game' litter . . . and name the pups things like Monopoly, Tiddly Winks, Black Jack, and Two Card Stud.

[Jed]

Sandgrubber, if you are ever lucky enough to own a game dog, or know a game dog who belongs to a friend, you will understand what "game" is.

I have been fortunate enough to own a few game dogs, and they have been the best dogs I could ever hope to own.

And no, they never attacked and killed anyone :D But they wouldn't have hesitated if they had seen the need.

I used the leave the gamest one inside with the baby if I went out to feed horses. She wasn't keen on that, her job was to stay with me, but she did it. If there was a problem, she came and told me. Game doesn't = vicious. And yes, they were unsupervised.

[sandgrubber]

Sandgrubber, if you are ever lucky enough to own a game dog, or know a game dog who belongs to a friend, you will understand what "game" is.

I have been fortunate enough to own a few game dogs, and they have been the best dogs I could ever hope to own.

And no, they never attacked and killed anyone But they wouldn't have hesitated if they had seen the need.

I used the leave the gamest one inside with the baby if I went out to feed horses. She wasn't keen on that, her job was to stay with me, but she did it. If there was a problem, she came and told me. Game doesn't = vicious. And yes, they were unsupervised.

Our breed standard calls for bidability Traditional job: retrieval of shot game, often in wet conditions, or before that, pulling in of fishing nets in very cold, rough waters. I've had some dogs that are gung-ho. I've had some dogs that won't quit. I've had some dogs that are keen on everything (ie, game in the 'I'm game' sense). I've had some dogs that are real athletes. I've had some dogs that have emotional IQ's that would fit in the top 5% if they were matched against humans. I've had some dogs who were faithful to a fault. I've had dogs that love water and have to be controlled lest they commit suicide by swimming into ice flows in a frozen river during spring break up. I am still confused about which are 'game'. I don't mean to be flippant by suggesting a 'game' litter. I just find the definitions put forward on this thread are all over the place. Perhaps it's better to say 'exceptional' rather than 'game' to avoid confusion.

[Ellie's mum]

Please excuse my ignorance but what is HA & DA

[RottnBullies]

HA - Human Aggressive

DA - Dog Aggressive

[Ellie's mum]

HA - Human Aggressive

DA - Dog Aggressive

thank you

[Jed]

Sandgrubber, if you are ever lucky enough to own a game dog, or know a game dog who belongs to a friend, you will understand what "game" is.

I have been fortunate enough to own a few game dogs, and they have been the best dogs I could ever hope to own.

And no, they never attacked and killed anyone :D But they wouldn't have hesitated if they had seen the need.

I used the leave the gamest one inside with the baby if I went out to feed horses. She wasn't keen on that, her job was to stay with me, but she did it. If there was a problem, she came and told me. Game doesn't = vicious. And yes, they were unsupervised.

Our breed standard calls for bidability Traditional job: retrieval of shot game, often in wet conditions, or before that, pulling in of fishing nets in very cold, rough waters. I've had some dogs that are gung-ho. I've had some dogs that won't quit. I've had some dogs that are keen on everything (ie, game in the 'I'm game' sense). I've had some dogs that are real athletes. I've had some dogs that have emotional IQ's that would fit in the top 5% if they were matched against humans. I've had some dogs who were faithful to a fault. I've had dogs that love water and have to be controlled lest they commit suicide by swimming into ice flows in a frozen river during spring break up. I am still confused about which are 'game'. I don't mean to be flippant by suggesting a 'game' litter. I just find the definitions put forward on this thread are all over the place. Perhaps it's better to say 'exceptional' rather than 'game' to avoid confusion.

Naw, imho, "exceptional" is not game. But Icould be wrong. And flippant is ok. I've had good dogs in one way or another, but game ones are different. It's difficult to explain. I didn't know the one I mentioned was "game" till after.

I've already said the cocker was game. When he saw the 2 dingos, both a lot bigger than he is, he sized up the situation, and went for them. He didn't even bother checking that the boxer was behind him, lucky she was I think. And they were chasing them over the hills and far away when I called them back. He's not a fighter, he's a game dog - that's one illustration for you.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Jed