Liberal Senator Helen Kroger Injured In Dog Attack

[Trisven13]

In a shared public space I accept a resposnibility to keep make sure my dogs only interact with other dogs in a safe way. But my own property is not a shared dog space unless I choose it to be. Regardless of how big or small my dogs are.

That is so completely true, particularly the highlighted part.

Mum to Emma - I'd love to know what part of this you disagree with? Why do you think the senator is to blame for her dogs attacking a dog that came into their yard? If she was walking down the street with her dogs off lead I could see why you would blame her but I don't understand your feelings at all given what has been reported.

[Silvawilow]

However, big dog owners have a greater responsibility to prevent this sort of situation from occurring as the consequences (ie the death of an animal) are so much greater.

You can't be serious? All dogs owners have the same responsibility regardless of the size of their dogs.

Also the article clearly states that the intruder dog came "under the fence".

Poor woman, hope her body and mind heal quickly, what a terrible ordeal to go through. Hopefully if the neighbour decides to get another dog they'll keep it contained.

[casowner]

MTE small dog owners do have that security, especially in this case - KEEP YOUR SMALL DOG OUT OF THE BIGGER DOGS YARD.

I have a 5kg pom cross and a very large CASD and I keep them both safe by confining them to my property.

[NoKillAustralia]

Imagine the brouha if the dog had been a Pit. I wonder if she supported BSL?

What in the hell has this got to do with BSL ?

Nothing

Hipocrasy. Label some dogs dangerous the corollary is all others are safe as the senator now knows. At least u didn't deny my assertion.

[Mum to Emma]

However, big dog owners have a greater responsibility to prevent this sort of situation from occurring as the consequences (ie the death of an animal) are so much greater.

You can't be serious? All dogs owners have the same responsibility regardless of the size of their dogs.

Also the article clearly states that the intruder dog came "under the fence".

Poor woman, hope her body and mind heal quickly, what a terrible ordeal to go through. Hopefully if the neighbour decides to get another dog they'll keep it contained.

Well I suppose it depends what paper you read. The Herald Sun says -

a neighbours small pet that had wandered into the front yard of her Hawthorn home.

and The Age -

her neighbour's fox terrier ran under the fence to play with her two dogs.

But putting aside Ms Kroger's story, I'm just sick to death of reading about small dogs being mauled to death by big dogs that are loose either in public parks or in their own front yards. I know of 2 cases in parks near to me where small ON LEASH dogs have been attacked and killed by big OFF LEASH dogs, and in both cases the owners of the big dogs have taken off leaving a fatally injured animals and traumatised owners. And some of you might remember the italian greyhound that was torn to pieces by two greyhounds let loose on a Melbourne beach.

Yes, small dogs are just as likely to (or perhaps even more likely to, given some have terrier temperaments) to induce a fight, but such a fight is far less likely to have fatal consequences for the bigger animal.

I have an elderly mother who is afraid to walk her small dog in the streets surrounding her home because of the number big dogs that are allowed into unsecured front yards. Yes, with supervision - but we all know that 90% of dogs will ignore you if another dog is around - particularly if they perceive that another dog is entering their territory, which includes the pavement in front of their home. I personally have been charged by a neighbour's Labrador that bolted from their front porch, across the street to have a go at my (on leash) dog as I was returning home. Around the corner to me a young man often plays plays ball in the front yard with his young and beautiful (but hyperactive) GSD ... behind a 2 foot fence. Do you seriously believe that if I walked my dog past their home that the GSD wouldn't react and come charging towards my dog? My blind dog doesn't perceive "charging" as a friendly gesture!

I'm sure you're all perfect dog owners who have perfectly trained dogs, but the majority of dogs and owners are not and will never be the same.

BTW, the sweetest dog presently in my life is an elderly German Shepherd, and the narkiest a mini schnauzer. So, NO, I'm not big dog prejudiced. I just appreciate that BIG animals are more likely to cause BIG injuries, and their owners have a responsibility to take appropriate care.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Mum to Emma

[NoKillAustralia]

Just a thought, I wonder if this woman could be one to have on-side regarding the latest legislation issues??? If she's a doggy person..... anyone have any contacts??

She's a Senator, the only legislation I have seen people concerned about lately is all state so why would she be relevant? The only Commonwealth dog legislation I am aware of is the import bans. But if you want to contact her all her details will be on aph.gov.au (parliament house site)

I don't want to contact her at the moment (nothing to say), but figure it's handy to know who's a dog-nut and who's not in the political World for future reference. I did not know she was federal, please forgive my ignorance.

Virtually all BSL is based on Federal Government Import restrictions banning breeds banned from importation into Australia. Lift them and BSL ends overnight. Senator Kroger could be the poster girl for deed not breed. Remains to be seen if she has the courage to take on the role or just be another party hack.

[Cosmolo]

I don't know how this story conjures the thoughts and situations you decribe mum to emma? These dogs were on their own property- they were contained.

Serious question- what more should the owner of the large dogs have done to prevent this incident?

As i said before, i have big dogs, medium size dogs and soon to have a small dog- i expect the same from all of my dogs and i do not expect anything different from the big guys because they are heavier!

What do you want large dog owners to do? What do you want small dog owners to do? My answer would be the same for both- whats yours?

[Diva]

I just appreciate that BIG animals are more likely to cause BIG injuries, and their owners have a responsibility to take appropriate care.

The Senator did take appropriate care. Her dogs were on her own property. That's plenty of care.

Post about irresponsible owners in public places or dogs, big and small, that charge OUT of front yards and you'll get a lot of agreement.

But that is not what happened here. There is no link at all.

[Mum to Emma]

I don't know how this story conjures the thoughts and situations you decribe mum to emma? These dogs were on their own property- they were contained.

Serious question- what more should the owner of the large dogs have done to prevent this incident?

As i said before, i have big dogs, medium size dogs and soon to have a small dog- i expect the same from all of my dogs and i do not expect anything different from the big guys because they are heavier!

What do you want large dog owners to do? What do you want small dog owners to do? My answer would be the same for both- whats yours?

Not leave them in the front yard even when supervised [we're not sure whether or not they were fully contained (were her dogs totally enclosed?) - as the reporting differs] because even when they're supervised, "dogs will be dogs" and the smaller dog will be the victim.

[mantis]

Accidents like this have been happening every day for years- its just that now they are being reported.

Mum to Emma, i am really shocked at your comments.. Small dogs can and do alot of damage too- the most significant scars on my OH's arm were from a 12 week old puppy- not a large dog!!

"Her right leg also has a seven-centimetre gash that may require a skin graft during surgery this evening."

(a) Doesn't sound like the bite of a small dog;

(b) She was holding the Foxy in her arms, from which it bit her face and fingers. How did it bite her leg?

BTW, when was the last time a big dog was mauled to death by 2 small dogs? Not the dog's fault, of course. Big and little dogs have no concept of size when it comes to fighting. However, big dog owners have a greater responsibility to prevent this sort of situation from occurring as the consequences (ie the death of an animal) are so much greater.

No, big dog owners dont have a greater responsibility than small dog owners to keep their dogs contained ALL dog owners should be responsible for their dogs welfare and wellbeing.

What part of this incident dont you understand Mum to Emma-the small dog dug under the fence into the other dogs yard, nothing to do with the size of the dogs involved at all. You are coming across in your posts as a dog racist and wont look past breeds and sizes please try to educate yourself that size is not the issue here.

Exactly, it sounds to me that Mum to Emma, is one of those small dog owners who think all big dogs should be caged, while small dogs can run round & do as they please.

Edited February 24, 2010 by mantis

[laeral]

I don't know how this story conjures the thoughts and situations you decribe mum to emma? These dogs were on their own property- they were contained.

Serious question- what more should the owner of the large dogs have done to prevent this incident?

As i said before, i have big dogs, medium size dogs and soon to have a small dog- i expect the same from all of my dogs and i do not expect anything different from the big guys because they are heavier!

What do you want large dog owners to do? What do you want small dog owners to do? My answer would be the same for both- whats yours?

Not leave them in the front yard even when supervised [we're not sure whether or not they were fully contained (were her dogs totally enclosed?) - as the reporting differs] because even when they're supervised, "dogs will be dogs" and the smaller dog will be the victim.

So where does the small dog owners repsonsibilty lie in your eyes?

Is it the big dog owners fault because they didnt prevent the small dog getting into their yard?

[Diva]

Not leave them in the front yard even when supervised [we're not sure whether or not they were fully contained (were her dogs totally enclosed?) - as the reporting differs] because even when they're supervised, "dogs will be dogs" and the smaller dog will be the victim.

None of the reports I have seen suggest the Senator's dogs left her own property. That is the essence of the matter. And if they had any basis to they would have, given her public position.

All reports that I have seen say the small dog entered the property uninvited. The only points of difference I have seen are whether it intruded under a gate, under a fence or 'wandered' in. But it definately intruded.

The small dog is a victim of it's own behaviour and it's owner failure to keep it at home or on a lead.

It's really that simple.

[Cosmolo]

What I have a front yard with a solid fence and my dogs often sit out there with me while i garden. It is my property- my dogs are contained on my property. If other dog owners do the same there is NO issue.

So based on your theory of dogs will be dogs and the small dog will be the victim- should my big dogs be allowed anywhere? If they're not okay on my own property, where would it be okay for them to be?

I agree that dogs can do damage and some dogs can do alot of damage- size is NOT the only factor here though. Where do you draw the line- what is big?

[Mum to Emma]

What I have a front yard with a solid fence and my dogs often sit out there with me while i garden. It is my property- my dogs are contained on my property. If other dog owners do the same there is NO issue.

So based on your theory of dogs will be dogs and the small dog will be the victim- should my big dogs be allowed anywhere? If they're not okay on my own property, where would it be okay for them to be?

I agree that dogs can do damage and some dogs can do alot of damage- size is NOT the only factor here though. Where do you draw the line- what is big?

Do you have a secure gate and fence? Are your dogs prevented from accessing the footpath if another dog walks past? If so, then yes - any incident occurs (which will only happen if a dog digs its way onto your property) will not be your dog's fault.

But I'm talking about owners that don't keep their big dogs appropriately enclosed. That don't believe that their dogs will bolt from an unsecured front yard if another dog walks passed. They DO and they WILL (90% of the time).

[Mum to Emma]

Not leave them in the front yard even when supervised [we're not sure whether or not they were fully contained (were her dogs totally enclosed?) - as the reporting differs] because even when they're supervised, "dogs will be dogs" and the smaller dog will be the victim.

None of the reports I have seen suggest the Senator's dogs left her own property. That is the essence of the matter. And if they had any basis to they would have, given her public position.

All reports that I have seen say the small dog entered the property uninvited. The only points of difference I have seen are whether it intruded under a gate, under a fence or 'wandered' in. But it definately intruded.

The small dog is a victim of it's own behaviour and it's owner failure to keep it at home or on a lead.

It's really that simple.

And that's a quite barbaric response. I hope Ms Kroger has more sympathy for her neighbour than you would. After all, Ms Krogor's dogs are alive.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Mum to Emma

[Cosmolo]

Its not barbaric- its reality! It is awful, truly awful for any dog to be attacked- i have been there and i know the feeling- sickening. But responsibility lies with the owner of the dog who was not contained or under control if the attack occurs in a public place.

I have a solid rendered front fence next to the driveway, along the length of my front yard. My dogs have never left the property without a lead or in the car-ever.

I was out the back of my property one day with my 4 dogs when they walked with me around the front to go through the front door. So they were all off lead and technically in my unsecured driveway. In my driveway were two on lead staffies with their owner, one of which had dog aggression issues. My dogs startled, i asked them to drop, they all did- while i went to speak to the owner. If my dogs had engaged in a fight with these dogs- whose fault would that have been? My dogs were supervised and contained on their own property.

Mum to Emma- do you really think big dog owners should behave differently to small dog owners? Could you define big please- my cattle dog crosses are 19-22kg while my other 2 are 32-37kg. My friends danes are heavier again- what do you define as big?

[RallyValley]

I have 'farm fencing' where my dogs can't get out but a small dog could fit though the gaps if it chose to do so. If something happened on my property is it my fault because I didn't build a small dog proof fence even though I don't have one? Absolutely not, if a dog roams into my yard, though my fence and my dogs do something (which I doubt they would) that dogs owner is at fault for not restraining thier dogs, it is not my fault that my dogs were contained and thiers was loose.

[Diva]

And that's a quite barbaric response. I hope Ms Kroger has more sympathy for her neighbour than you would. After all, Ms Krogor's dogs are alive.

I've already said I feel for their loss. I have lots of sympathy for them, especially if their dog did not usually escape their yard.

But sympathy does not change where the responsibility lies.

And it doesn't lie with the dogs which were on their own property, nor with their owner.

Surviving does not make the big dogs at fault. Neither does being big.

I understand you are upset by a whole different set of incidents mum to emma but they have nothing to do with this one.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Diva

[Trisven13]

I don't know how this story conjures the thoughts and situations you decribe mum to emma? These dogs were on their own property- they were contained.

Serious question- what more should the owner of the large dogs have done to prevent this incident?

As i said before, i have big dogs, medium size dogs and soon to have a small dog- i expect the same from all of my dogs and i do not expect anything different from the big guys because they are heavier!

What do you want large dog owners to do? What do you want small dog owners to do? My answer would be the same for both- whats yours?

Not leave them in the front yard even when supervised [we're not sure whether or not they were fully contained (were her dogs totally enclosed?) - as the reporting differs] because even when they're supervised, "dogs will be dogs" and the smaller dog will be the victim.

I'm with others - why the hell shouldn't MY dogs be in MY yard regardless. If Senator Kroger's dogs were in her yard, fence or not, and the neighbour's dog (which lets face it, was off-lead AND off its property) entered the yard it did so at its owner's risk. The owners of the small dog are at fault because their dog was off their property and out of their care when it walked into someone else's yard. Regardless of the size of your dog if it is off your property, off lead, and is injured it is YOUR fault. I just don't see how you can't see that side.

If my dogs are in my front yard and I have insufficient control of them and they leave my yard to attack another dog then I am at fault - no questions asked. I think you're so entrenched in being right you're not actually looking at this remotely logically. You didn't answer my earlier question but do you really think someone's dogs are to blame if they attack another dog that enters their yard? If you don't then Senator Kroger has done nothing wrong.

[poodlefan]

And that's a quite barbaric response. I hope Ms Kroger has more sympathy for her neighbour than you would. After all, Ms Krogor's dogs are alive.

They never left their yard. The same cannot be said for the dead dog. Have a good think about that - you're assigning responsibility for that dog's safety to the wrong person.

Only one person is responsible for that dog's death - it's OWNER.