Chocolatelover Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Hi, Not sure if this is the right place to post but I really need some advice and figured here would be the best place to get it I bought my pup nearly seven months ago from a registered breeder and I still haven't received any papers. I am thinking I will probably have to accept that I got duped but was wondering if anyone knows of anything I can do??? Our last boy was almost three when we found him on his bed one morning - he had passed away sometime in the early hours of the morning An autopsy showed that he had a congenital heart defect and our vet said we should let the breeder know as they would most likely like a copy of the report. We did this but unfortunately she was quite short and told us it was not her fault and we let it be. So when we felt ready for our new boy I had a really hard time convincing my OH that a registered breeder was the way to go and now this has happened ;) Tazer is desexed all ready and we would never breed and it won't change how much we love and adore him if we never get the papers. But I would like to convince OH that a registered breeder is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any ideas of where to go from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Call the Canine Association in your State with the name of your breeders prefix and the date they were born and they will be able to tell you if the litter was registered. Have you lost contact with the breeder? Sometimes it can be something as simple as a mail problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Sorry - few more details I originally phoned the breeder and she said that she was having family issues and she would do it ASAP. I then received emails from other puppy buyers (must have got my email of some group emails the breeder sent) asking if I had received my papers. I phoned the CCCQ and they said to put in a stat dec as they hadn't received any paperwork from the breeder. I held of doing this as I knew she had had family problems. I tried to contact the breeder by phone but was unable so sent a email but didn't get a reply. I then phoned the CCCQ again but they said she has not renewed her registration and there is not much they can do. They have sent her registered mail which she collected but they cannot contact her by phone or email either. So it is back to doing a stat dec but just not sure there is much point. Are there other avenues to chase it up???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 good luck with the kennel council, I was told to keep on the breeders back because it's not their problem. Only other avenue I suppose is civil court ... product sold not as described Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I would persue the stat dec if you have been advised to do that. It may not help much, but it might help - you never know. At least you can say you went down EVERY avenue. Other than that, I don't have much advice... but I feel for you and hope it is resolved in your favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerojath Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I think it really sucks for you, that you tried to do the right thing and deal with a registered breeder only to get screwed like this. It doesn't do much to help our cause, that's for sure! Unfortunately there is a world of difference between a Registered Breeder & a Reputable Registered Breeder. I'm glad you are still going to keep and love your dog just as much, and even WITH registration papers, it doesn't sound like you'd receive much breeder support anyway. So long as he is desexed, it really doesn't matter *that* much, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the replies Will probably pursue the stat dec - although not sure how much good it will do. I don't think I will go the legal avenue - like I said, he is the same to us with or without papers. All for my OH's benefits really Plus I do try and encourage people who mention that they are looking at pups in the paper to go down the registered breeder and to stay away from BYBs and pet shops so feel like I am a bad advertisement at the moment And your right Jerojath - it makes no difference to how much we love him. He still gets run of the house and to bath with the kids........papers or no papers And can I just say that after reading through bits and pieces on this forum it is inspiring to realise there are so many dog lovers out there who treat their animals with the love they deserve. I get so bogged down sometimes by the unfairness of so may animal's lives that I to see on a daily basis that I guess sometimes I forget to look at the postive side and how many lucky ones there are out there. A trip to the dog park usually leaves me feeling down as all I seem to hear is "I'll let her have pups cause she such a good looking dog" or "she really needs a litter to calm her down" or "I don't want to desex him now in case someone wants to use him". Anyway, on a lighter note - thanks again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Sounds like a BC breeder I know of. Unfortunately if the breeder has not renewed their membership, there is not a lot the CCCQ can do as they are not members and therefore are not subject to CCCQ code of ethics. You can certainly do the stat dec thing and if the breeder DOES renew their membership, then the CCCQ may be able to suspend them or something. At least then it is on record at the CCCQ that papers were not supplied etc. There is a BIG difference in ETHICAL registered breeders and registered breeders. So sorry to hear you have been caught up with an unethical one. But please do not be put off by this experience. There are still plenty of ethical breeders out there. The problem in Qld is, if you decide to go into trailling sports (obedience, agility etc) you cannot compete as a pedigree without those papers. The next dog you get, MUST be a pedigree with papers under the CCCQ rules. (you are only allowed to have one non pedigree to be able to compete in ANKC events. Or if you have two non-pedigree dogs, they must be Associate registered TOGETHER in order to compete in ANKC events) Even though your existing pup is by the sounds of it Pedigree and should have come with papers. In Qld, registered breeders MUST register all surviving pups and papers MUST be supplied with puppies whether they be main or limit registrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Something you could try is contacting Fair Trading. If you have purchased a dog with the expectation of receiving registration papers and that has not happened, then you haven't received what you paid for and Fair Trading will more than likely be able to assist you. Unfortunately, as the CCs are only classed as "registering bodies" anything outside this is classed as a civil matter. A CC can only enforce their rules if a person is a financial member. They cannot force them to rejoin or do paperwork. Fair Trading may have a little more clout in this regard and may be able to put a bit of pressure on the breeder to make good on the transaction. Just a thought...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) If the person is no longer a financial member and did not register the litter, then there's nothing that the CC's can do about it. A breeder has 18 months in which to register the litter and if they let their membership lapse, the CC's cannot make them register it or rejoin to do so. ETA: sorry, it was the same as what Ellz said. I think you have zero chance of ever getting any papers. Edited February 22, 2010 by SBT123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Well a glimmer of hope today. I actually sent an email to the sire of my boy just to see whether she knew anything about it and she just replied and forwarded on an email from the breeder's husband saying that he would make sure the pups were registered!!!!! So fingers crossed ;) Not sure when but at least there is hope. Thanks for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 At least if you never get papers, you know that the hips and elbows were scored and hopefully there were eye certificates. ;) Does CCCQ have an associate dog register? If so you can still compete in obedience and sports without the pedigree if that's your plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smisch Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Sounds like a BC breeder I know of. Unfortunately if the breeder has not renewed their membership, there is not a lot the CCCQ can do as they are not members and therefore are not subject to CCCQ code of ethics. You can certainly do the stat dec thing and if the breeder DOES renew their membership, then the CCCQ may be able to suspend them or something. At least then it is on record at the CCCQ that papers were not supplied etc. There is a BIG difference in ETHICAL registered breeders and registered breeders. So sorry to hear you have been caught up with an unethical one. But please do not be put off by this experience. There are still plenty of ethical breeders out there. The problem in Qld is, if you decide to go into trailling sports (obedience, agility etc) you cannot compete as a pedigree without those papers. The next dog you get, MUST be a pedigree with papers under the CCCQ rules. (you are only allowed to have one non pedigree to be able to compete in ANKC events. Or if you have two non-pedigree dogs, they must be Associate registered TOGETHER in order to compete in ANKC events) Even though your existing pup is by the sounds of it Pedigree and should have come with papers. In Qld, registered breeders MUST register all surviving pups and papers MUST be supplied with puppies whether they be main or limit registrations. Tell me about that stupid associate rule.. ARGH killed my life when I registered Denver.. I already had jock in my name in NSW and they wouldn't do it.. so Den is registered as an over the border dog... But I have found a way through if I end up with another working rescue... SPORTING REGISTER!!! I almost did that before I thought of over the border.. both dogs are legally registered with dogs NSW and have been accepted under my CCCQ membership so no issues there! At least if you never get papers, you know that the hips and elbows were scored and hopefully there were eye certificates. Does CCCQ have an associate dog register? If so you can still compete in obedience and sports without the pedigree if that's your plan. staff and Toller as mentioned in my previous response its the biggest pain known to man.. the only thing I HATE about this state.. if a dog is from a registered rescue an owner should be allowed to register as many of those dogs as they want to compete with there shouldn't be the 2 Associate dogs per membership per lifetime if registered at the same time crap that currently goes on... like I said I had the biggest issue registering my BC that is a pure that is from the AWL cos I have jock who is an RSPCA dog and Snoopy (who has passed one) who was also from the AWL... I rang the CCCQ to get the paperwork to fill out sent to me and they asked me do you have any other AR dogs and I said yes they are registered in NSW and they're like no sorry you can't register him.. so I held off joining CCCQ for a few more months and used my dogs NSW membership to register him under my NSW residential address which has since been vacated so I could trial this dog... It furstrates me.. Chocolate Lover I hope you can get his papers cos its gonna be a damn side lot easier than the crap us with Associate dogs go through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 That's really sad. I hope it resolves, maybe it will from the sound of it. In any case, although it probably wont make the oh happy, the dog himself IS from purebred, registered parents, and you know you DO have a purebred, not a puppy farm drop out with a bit of this and a dash of mini foxy, and when he grows up he will be what he was supposed to be, papers or not. Papers would be better though I'm sorry there wasn't much support from the first breeder -sometimes breeders are appalled to know something happened when the dog was long past puppyhood, and don't know how to deal with it, so are brusque, which is a pity for them and their lines, because they should take an interest for the good of their dogs. None of this makes other registered breeders look very good either, but many of us do care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks Jed - I guess I am learning as I go too in the questions which I should be asking breeders. I think it works both ways - as much as they are entitled to know what sort of home we will offer, the buyer also has a right to know how the pups will be raised and their breeder's attitudes towards their dogs. But having said that, I believe this breeder may have experienced genuine tough times because we did have some long chats about our dogs and she did seem to genuinely care. I am definitely not turned off and I did point out to OH what great dogs both our boys have been. Never had any issues with either and wouldn't trade them for the world. And he couldn't argue with that And I'm sure like any venture - the bad stories are probably talked more about than the good. Probably just put it down to one of life's learning experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Sometimes it doesn't matter how many questions you ask!! And as pups in Q don't need to be registered until they go to their new homes, it can be difficult. I like that system, as it means the pups are registered in the new owners' names, and there is only one lot of paperwork for me I always put in writing that the pup will be registered, and name the parents, and their numbers - but there is nothing to prevent me resigning from the CC and not registering them Luckily, most of the time, nothing goes wrong. And it does sound as if the people intend to register the pups. Hope so. Fingers crossed. Sometimes things do go wrong in our lives, and it's difficult to cope. And nice dogs are nice dogs, paperwork or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 UPDATE - our papers are on their way!!!! Phoned Dogs Queensland (have even learned the correct name along the way) today and the lady told me that the pups have been registered and papers will be sent directly to the owners. (Yep I did check we were on the list ). A big thank you to Blackdog for all his help!!!!!!!!! And thank you to everyone for their suggestions Now I just have to get the OH to stop calling him Muttley............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Excellent news, I'm glad it worked out for you, tho' god knows it shouldn't have been that hard. OH bought a puppy from QLD recently and his registration certificate was in the puppy folder the breeder gives to everyone along with details about training, diet and coat care and a copy of the sales contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Because we can register pups straight into the new owner's name, some times papers are not available at the time you collect your puppy or when it is transported to you. This could be due to the breeder is waiting to sell the remaining puppies so the transfer can be done in one go. Most of the time however, they will not be too far away. I know I have bought puppies and only had to wait a short time for the papers to arrive. I have sold puppies to new pet owners and informed them the papers will be on their way. I have never had problems selling my pups by 8 weeks, so if the papers are not ready when the owner collects them, they have never been too far behind (The papers were in with the CCCQ at the time) Dogs Qld, normally (or used to) send the papers to the breeder to check the details and then it was the responsibility of the breeder to forward the papers onto the puppy buyers. So I would definately check to see if the papers are going directly to you from Dogs Qld. Good to hear you are getting papers though. I have heard some horror stories the other week, where a couple registered breeders were charging an extra $200 for papers. They are not allowed to do this. ALL puppies must come with papers - whether they be on main or limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolatelover Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Thanks guys We actually received them in the post today!! Mystiqview - the lady I spoke to at Dogs Queensland did say that they were normally sent to the breeder but because of the extenuating circumstances in this case the decision had been made to send them directly to buyers. Good to finally have them - even though I love him just the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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