Any Security Dog Handlers Here?

[Nekhbet]

Rottis are not cumbersom or unfit ... maybe the fat ones. They were bred as a working breed

I say go with a rottweiler if that is what you prefer

[Sayreovi]

Is there really that many jobs going as a security dog handler?

I've seen a few of these posts pop up and I wonder if it's a worthwhile venture for people?

[Tilly]

Lots of jobs ... just not a lot of reputable companies

[Longcoat]

Rottis are not cumbersom or unfit ... maybe the fat ones. They were bred as a working breed

I say go with a rottweiler if that is what you prefer

How many Rotties did you see beat Nordenstamm Chiller on the long bite The best Rotti will be slower on the field than the heaviest GSD.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Longcoat

[Tilly]

Our best dog ever was a rottie ... he was just as good as the GSD's in the chase, had a much harder hit (muzzle hit) and a fantastic bite.

We have just gone off the rottie's and now got GSD's because it became more and more difficult to find good working rottie's.

[Jessca]

I can't* post questions on the specialist working dog forum.. blah..

There is a new system in place, where all new members have to be verified. So once an admin has verified your membership you will be able to start new topics and reply to old ones.

[openarms]

Can anyone recommend where i might find a suitable Rotti?

[Clyde]

To be honest I would look in to the work and research for at least 6 months before rushing out and getting your dog. Go along to training sessions, watch and learn. A working line Rotti is going to need an experienced hand and as you also have your kids and I think (?) other dogs, it's best you gain more knowledge first. Through this experience and research I am sure you will then gain more knowledge of breeders and the type of Rott you are after.

[moosmum]

My son has just done his security course and soon to start his K9 unit.

He will be using our own dogs as he has been raised with them,knows and has great faith in them.

Unfortunatly they have not yet proven themselves proffesionaly.

We believe they will.

[Jeff Jones]

Rottis are not cumbersom or unfit ... maybe the fat ones. They were bred as a working breed

I say go with a rottweiler if that is what you prefer

How many Rotties did you see beat Nordenstamm Chiller on the long bite ;) The best Rotti will be slower on the field than the heaviest GSD.

This is not a factor worth considering when choosing a suitable breed of dog for Security work, Security dog handlers can not let there dogs go offlead. The main reason companies use dogs is to firstly act as a visual deterrent. ;)

[Longcoat]

Can anyone recommend where i might find a suitable Rotti?

Personally, I would do some research especially outside of Australia where more people dedicate their lives to producing and training high level security, service and protection dogs and you will find out what breeds are used for particular disciplines and why certain breeds are preferred to others. Rotties excel in guarding roles with exceptional strength and power and work well on their own guarding property etc, but when it comes to dog/handler teams requiring particular traits most suitable for those roles, they use GSD's. Some also use Belgian Malinios, Dutch Shepherd's, Rottie's and the odd Dobe and possibly other breeds too, but ultimately the GSD is the most widely used breed across the board in the dog/handler application which you will find when researching why they use GSD's in large proportions over other breeds there are good reasons for why the GSD is preferred in those roles.

There are plenty of discussions, comparisons and deep meaningful genetic research results into the reasons why GSD's are preferred over Rotties in dog/handler working roles and my way of thinking if Rotties were the superior breed for that application they would be used widespread, in fact, you wouldn't see GSD's as police K9 for example in that case, they would be Rotties right across the board???.

IMHO, I would keep an open mind to the breed and do some research before making a decision, not saying that a Rotti wouldn't make the perfect security partner for your personal requirements, but learning why the majority of professionals don't use Rotties in those roles would be worthwhile knowledge to gain. ;)

[Jeff Jones]

To be honest I would look in to the work and research for at least 6 months before rushing out and getting your dog. Go along to training sessions, watch and learn. A working line Rotti is going to need an experienced hand and as you also have your kids and I think (?) other dogs, it's best you gain more knowledge first. Through this experience and research I am sure you will then gain more knowledge of breeders and the type of Rott you are after.

I agree with doing as much research as possible first.

Can anyone recommend where i might find a suitable Rotti?

I provided a link for a suitable breeder of rottweilers a few pages back for you to look at.

[Longcoat]

Rottis are not cumbersom or unfit ... maybe the fat ones. They were bred as a working breed

I say go with a rottweiler if that is what you prefer

How many Rotties did you see beat Nordenstamm Chiller on the long bite ;) The best Rotti will be slower on the field than the heaviest GSD.

This is not a factor worth considering when choosing a suitable breed of dog for Security work, Security dog handlers can not let there dogs go offlead. The main reason companies use dogs is to firstly act as a visual deterrent.

You are correct Jeff, getting a bit off track with sporting potential, but as a visual deterrent this is where I have seen fear aggressive dogs bouncing around on the end of the leash passed off as good security dogs where in fact they are not. It's also a common reference used by some breeders who claim to produce security dogs and seeing some of these dogs tested on the field after their initial bark and aggressive lunge, they run away from the helper in fear. I have also seen the owners devistated in their purchase of what was supposed to be a hard nerved and highly defense driven dog which turned out to be aggression trggered by a fear response ;) I don't know what the screening and training process is for security companies, but some of their dogs I would question their true suitability???.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Longcoat

[Guest Pandii]

The dogs here in town do mainly patrols, nothing major.

[Nekhbet]

Longcoat internationally GSDs are not always the most popular, other breeds are coming in over the shepherd. Given a choice a shepherd would be one of the lower on the list of next PP dogs I would purchase. Malinois are excelling as are dutchies, rotties will also do well working with a handler. GSDs are preferable here I think more due to habit, I have seen some very good rotties and I used a Malinois myself. Working line shepherds are also easier to come by then working rotts.

[Longcoat]

Longcoat internationally GSDs are not always the most popular, other breeds are coming in over the shepherd. Given a choice a shepherd would be one of the lower on the list of next PP dogs I would purchase. Malinois are excelling as are dutchies, rotties will also do well working with a handler. GSDs are preferable here I think more due to habit, I have seen some very good rotties and I used a Malinois myself. Working line shepherds are also easier to come by then working rotts.

I think you would find on a head count across the world that the GSD would be largest group of service/PP dogs by a large amount. Many of the countries and departments that have switched to Mal's and Dutchies have not always been due to the GSD's lack of performance and in many cases it's been a cost containment exercise given that Mal's and Dutchies are better value for money. The equivilant quality in a GSD generally comes at a greater cost which has been a factor in many breed change strategies. Some departments use all three breeds and interstingly, some jobs are reserved for GSD's especially crowd control and riots, I have read on several occasions where Mal's and Dutchies will spook and loose the plot where a GSD can remain clear headed in those conditions. Search and rescue is another job I have heard that the GSD's work better than the Mal's and Dutchie's with their superior ability to air scent. The GSD's on most accounts are easier to handle than Mal's and Dutchie's, but then the Mal's and Dutchie's are faster and more intense and although better in some areas, not as versitile across the board. It depends largely on what type of work you need from the dog where one breed is more adaptable than the other.

As far as the Rotti goes, they don't use them in what are essentially GSD, Mal and Dutch roles where optimum performance is required. Not saying they can't do the job, they can, but not as well across the board, like the Dobe are more reserves for the main team. The Rotti is a natural guard dog with man stopping power and awesomely hard bite, but as a service dog they are said to tire out and loose focus when worked for extended periods. They lack endurance, manouverability and speed and genetically suffer from oxygen depleation in their breathing compared with the others due to their chest cavity apparantly. There are other issues with the Rotti that is known to leave them short when ultimate performance from a dog is a necessity???. There is plenty of interesting information and opinions published when splitting hairs in regard to the performance of working breeds.

At world level Schutzhund competition Mal's don't always win and are beaten reguarly by GSD's, but essentially I would believe it's an easier task to find a good sporting Mal than a GSD and more GSD failures occur in the sport. At the top level of both breeds in sport, there is not a whole lot between them, however I would believe that a garden variety Mal would be a far better Schutzhund prospect than a garden variety GSD.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Longcoat

[cramet]

best thing to do would be to get in contact with a security company that you are interestedin working for that does K9 work show your are interest and get involved with there training doesnt have to be the bitework side but show your intrest have a look at there dogs

you might see and speak to the handlers of the dogs and think i like breed B better than bread A and if they dont have a prefered contact for that breed start ringing working breeders

there is a few on spec canine that are more than willing to help one way or the other

and food for thought

if the company offers you one of there dogs get it checked by a indipendent trainer that deals with bite work

that way you cant be duped in to taking a dud or a dog thats not suitabul or needs to be fixed of problem that the old owners has created

[Incavale]

There's something just not right about this

Too many basic questions, can't work out sources of information etc

Could well be a case of the dog whatever kind it be, being a bit smarter than the handler, who appears to know absolutely nothing about this line of work

Just my thoughts on the thread though

[Staranais]

Search and rescue is another job I have heard that the GSD's work better than the Mal's and Dutchie's with their superior ability to air scent.

I haven't heard that GSD have a superior ability to the malinois in air scent, or noticed any difference. Where did you hear that GSD are better, and what is supposed to be the cause of the difference?

The most popular landSAR dogs round here are actually border collies and labradors, which have the prey drive to do the work, but are thought to be easier for novice handlers to train and control. I don't know if I'd pick a GSD for USAR work either, most USAR handlers I have met prefer a smaller and more agile dog that can work on the rubble piles efficiently.

I too would not recommend a malinois for a novice dog owner, especially not a working line mally. They can be pretty intense. Mine definitely keeps me on my toes.

[moosmum]

A lot of great sugestions here for my son too.I have recomended he look around here on dol and read this thread and other training threads himself.

It seems finding a reputable trainer and assessor for his dog may be a problem?

Can any one recommend a good one in N.S.W working specificaly in this field?

I certainly don't want him going into this with a badly trained dog and he was told his dog itself needs no sort of accreditation?!

He is doing his training in Q.L.D atm.but will be back.

Tho' his employer would likely check out the dog.

Edited February 22, 2010 by moosmum