Your Definition Of Bite Inhibition

[A-B-C]

What a great discussion.

For me bite inhibition doesn't depend on whether it is human or dog... it's just bite inhibition. Learnt from puppyhood through mum and siblings as to what bite pressure is acceptable and then continued to be influenced through human/dog/social interactions as the pup grows.

I agree with corvus...

The latter. Bite inhibition to me doesn't mean that they won't bite hard, just that if they do they bloody well meant to and intended to hurt or do physical damage. The power in a dog's jaws is quite impressive, but I routinely witness my dogs playing very rough games with a lot of biting and I know from accidentally copping one meant for the dog that they are biting very softly.

I think that a dog with good bite inhibition retains that inhibition even when quite aroused.

ETA: Posted too slow... so I agree with corvus AND Cosmolo

Edited February 20, 2010 by A-B-C

[corvus]

I agree with Corvus

I'm scared, too. But it's not my idea, it's Abrantes', so we can just both agree with him.

I would have loved to have been able to teach bite inhibition to an adult dog. Then we might have been able to help that rescue dog we had with no bite inhibition. But you can't ever test it. If you failed it would be disastrous! Part of this dog's problem was not understanding social situations. To her, every spat was dead serious. It was absolutely horrifying to watch. The stakes are way too high to ever try something out.

I am sure I have read something about what can only be developed at a young age... I'm not sure if it was relevant or not, though. Must try to remember where I read it...

[Odin-Genie]

I think bite inhibition is learnt with Mum and littermates. And I think humans are AWFUL teachers of bite inhibition and never recommend any of my clients try to 'teach bite inhibition'. They provide other opportunities for the pup through socialisation, toys and games but not puppy being permitted to put their mouth on someone.

This is interesting. When I got my elkhound pup, he was always nipping. I had scratches all over my arms and legs. However, his trainer showed me how to deal with it, teaching him to not bite. Today, at two years, he is a dog with a very high bite inhibition and bite threshold. Even if I accidentally step on his paws, he would never ever bite. I won't say that he won't bite in any situation. He most likely would, but only when driven to extremes.

There have been few occasions when my arm got in the way when he was play biting with my other dog and I was trying to wrestle with them. At such times his teeth are so gentle that I barely feel it.

My goldy on the other hand learnt her bite inhibition from my other dog. She never bit us as a puppy. So when I accidentally get my arm between her teeth during play, it's a stronger bite (not enough to cause a bruise though).

My elkhound definitely has stronger jaws going by the way he dessimates his bones. So how does one explain his strong bite inhibition if not through training? He didn't have it as a pup.

[Cosmolo]

That depends Odin genie- would need to know alot about the training that was done and the dog etc to explain it. I know a number of pups who mouthed badly as puppies and developed to have softer mouths through young interaction with other dogs/ pups although much will depend on the dogs the pup is playing with once past the littermate stage.

Teaching not to bite is different to a human trying to teach the pup to bite soft- we teach all pups not to bite and let them test out their mouthing on other things which i think can enhance skills that are already there.

Just because a dog chooses to bite or mouth hard does not always mean they don't have bite inhibition- some pups have been rewarded for biting harder through incorrect extinction training where the receiver of the mouthing pays attention to the stronger bite that occurs when the dog goes through an extinction burst. So therefore they bite harder because it gets a better result- doesn't mean they are not capable of biting soft, and if mouthing hard then starts to not work, i can see that mouthing softly could then result- but i think the bite inhibition was always there, not that the softer mouthing was directly taught by the person.

[anniek]

Can I ask how this would apply to greyhounds please?

They are raised with their litter mates until they are in their teens, so play with each other and would think develop bite inhibition.

Then they are trained to "bite on" - a lure, rabbit whatever. This is something they are encouraged to do, and instinctively do (well most of them anyway). They rip and tear at the "object" - biting hard.

Then those that come through as pets, either have a very soft bite - towards humans. Some try to grab food, but can be taught easily not to bite your fingers off. Same with nail cutting - some can be reactionary but bite soft.

Am I taking crap - ie. on a differnt subject, or am I making sense?

annieK

[Cosmolo]

Predatory bites will often be hard as you are dealing with an instinctual part of the dog, not a 'thinking one'. A dog can have a high prey drive, hard prey driven bites AND a soft mouth. I have one on the couch with me right now- his prey bites are hard (on a tug toy- and once on my hand by accident- where he then immediately let go as soon as he realised it was me so actually didn't break skin) but he has an amazing soft mouth when playing- he is very oral so uses his mouth alot but remains soft.

[sandgrubber]

I suspect bite inhibition is part of a deeper set of behaviours, which is to some extent, different for different breeds.

With Labrador pups, the inhibition of biting seems to start developing a week or so after their teeth come in . . . until they're five to six weeks you get awful yelps as one pup grabs another by the ear or tail and then shakes . . . with resulting screaming. This normally drops off to nothing by seven weeks, sometimes earlier. Unfortunately, it seems to take another month or two before they put human toes in the same category as puppy tails. I suspect they are actually developing something like empathy during this period (in line with the recently posted Scientific American article on Morality in dogs).

I don't think mouthy behaviour leads to biting. Indeed, could be that the mouth-mouth game that you will often see adult Labs playing (usually played with one or both dogs lying down) is what is left of fighting when bite has been strongly inhibited . . . sort of like arm wrestling . . . don't know. Breeding for a soft mouth probably includes, as a side effect, breeding for bite inhibition. It might be interesting to see if the softness / bite inhibition could be eliminated by playing rough tug games . . . but I don't want to do the experiment cause I don't like dogs that bite.

The only time any of my dogs has snapped and/or bitten was a rescue Lab I got in the US who hated having her anus touched. She regularly tried to bite the vet when her temperature was taken and once snapped at (without contact) a child who was interested in the hole underneath her tail. Exception . . . almost all my dogs will snap at, bite, and eat moths, flies and grasshoppers.

[Odin-Genie]

That depends Odin genie- would need to know alot about the training that was done and the dog etc to explain it. I know a number of pups who mouthed badly as puppies and developed to have softer mouths through young interaction with other dogs/ pups although much will depend on the dogs the pup is playing with once past the littermate stage.

Teaching not to bite is different to a human trying to teach the pup to bite soft- we teach all pups not to bite and let them test out their mouthing on other things which i think can enhance skills that are already there.

Just because a dog chooses to bite or mouth hard does not always mean they don't have bite inhibition- some pups have been rewarded for biting harder through incorrect extinction training where the receiver of the mouthing pays attention to the stronger bite that occurs when the dog goes through an extinction burst. So therefore they bite harder because it gets a better result- doesn't mean they are not capable of biting soft, and if mouthing hard then starts to not work, i can see that mouthing softly could then result- but i think the bite inhibition was always there, not that the softer mouthing was directly taught by the person.

Well, no credit to me then

But I'm glad both my dogs learnt good bite inhibition, however they learnt it.

[Cosmolo]

Sorry i didn't mean it to sound like that JMO

[Diva]

A fearful dog may have a lower bite threshold, but may not.

I agree with this. I had an adult dog I took on at 18 months who was extremely fearful with people she didn't know well, but she had a very high bite threshold. Even in full panic, she wouldn't bite the person who she was terrified of. She wasn't scared of strange dogs but she had a high bite threshold with them too. She'd tell them off if necessary, but had to be very hard pushed to bite.

Agree with the defintions of bite inhibiton too - default response in a dog with good inhibition is not to bite down hard, but if they need to or choose to they can and will.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Diva

[Cosmolo]

I too have a dog like that Diva- in a state of absolute panic, and cornered- she never tried to bite. Really quite incredible. (and sad )

[Diva]

Yes, very sad. In my girl's case a result of a combination of very little exposure to people as a pup and an inherited sensibility I think. But when she knew you, she was so delightful.

[Henrietta]

Thank you Diva, Cosmolo and Corvus for answering my question. It is a very interesting discussion.