Your Definition Of Bite Inhibition

[Cosmolo]

I have read a few posts on here of late that lead me to ask how everyone defines bite inhibition. Do you think a dog with bite inhibition will always inhinit their bite and therefore, if said dog attacks/ bites won't do as much damage?

Or do you think a dog with bite inhibition has the ability to modify their bite but can still choose not to and therefore can still bite hard and do damage?

Or something else?

Opinions from novices and those more experienced welcome!

[poodlefan]

Personally, I take it to be that the dog's instinctive bites are not hard and that it understands that using its teeth on people is not acceptable.

I'd say any dog can and will bite hard but a dog with good bite inhibition does not do so without thinking.

Edited February 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[SmoothieGirl]

Personally, I take it to be that the dog's instinctive bites are not hard and that it understands that using its teeth on people is not acceptable.

I'd say any dog can and will bite hard but a dog with good bite inhibition does not do so without thinking.

Hi Cos

My first thought is pretty much what PF said. The only thing I'm second guessing is their 'instinctive' bites not being hard as instinctive tends to suggest reactionary and I'm not sure they would put much thought into a reactive bite. I don't know.

[megan_]

Personally, I take it to be that the dog's instinctive bites are not hard and that it understands that using its teeth on people is not acceptable.

I'd say any dog can and will bite hard but a dog with good bite inhibition does not do so without thinking.

I agree with this - I don't see it as having anything to do with how hard it will bite during an attack.

[newfsie]

I know from my many years with newfs, that I would go with your second option."Or do you think a dog with bite inhibition has the ability to modify their bite but can still choose not to and therefore can still bite hard and do damage?" I Have owned many newfs, who will guide their owner/ person to be rescued in the water or on land with a soft hold on a limb (arm or hand), as taught in rescue. Those same newfs i have seen in a dog fight, where they were attacked by aggressive dogs and almost shred these dog. until we got them to "leave"....They stopped dead and left the dogs.

[corvus]

The latter. Bite inhibition to me doesn't mean that they won't bite hard, just that if they do they bloody well meant to and intended to hurt or do physical damage. The power in a dog's jaws is quite impressive, but I routinely witness my dogs playing very rough games with a lot of biting and I know from accidentally copping one meant for the dog that they are biting very softly.

I think that a dog with good bite inhibition retains that inhibition even when quite aroused. My last dog had wonderful bite inhibition, knowing exactly where she wanted her teeth to be and how much perssure and rarely even making contact. She once got into a serious, life-and-death kind of fight and almost certainly shed blood. Makes sense. Curbs her bite considerably in social situations, even when behaving threateningly, but when it turned serious there was no holding back.

[persephone]

I think bite inhibition is used by a dog in a controlled situation.

In a reactive situation I believe the dog bites hard.

[tdierikx]

Hmmm... very interesting questions there Cosmolo...

I don't know exactly what you mean by "bite inhibition", but if it's where you teach a dog to not bite or bite down on things (like people), then I've taught my Rottie/Pittie girl that a little too well methinks. A few times, my Lab and my Rottie/Pittie girl have gotten into a very nasty spat, and the Lab who has not been taught "bite inhibition" is the way nastier attacker, and does a lot of damage to my Rottie/Pittie. The Rottie/Pittie gets in her bites, but certainly does a hell of a lot less damage to the Lab - she's lucky to make small punctures that hardly even draw blood. Then again, the Lab goes for the front legs and shreds them, whereas the Rottie/Pittie goes for the neck and head to bite and try to hold.

Neither dog has ever bitten - or tried to bite - a human... both of them know that is particularly off-limits...

T.

[Red Fox]

Okay I'm a novice and can only go on what I see in my own dog but I agree with this

Or do you think a dog with bite inhibition has the ability to modify their bite but can still choose not to and therefore can still bite hard and do damage?

and this from PF

Personally, I take it to be that the dog's instinctive bites are not hard and that it understands that using its teeth on people is not acceptable.

I'd say any dog can and will bite hard but a dog with good bite inhibition does not do so without thinking.

From what I see with Kei he understands that mouthing/biting people is NOT acceptable and has been taught this from a young age.

He can and will bite down hard on a tug in play, BUT if he happens to miss the tug and grab my arm or hand instead it is an automatic release.

I'm not entirely sure what that means? It is a very quick reaction so maybe it has now become instinct to him that when he feels skin he releases?

[Esky the husky]

I see it as being

A dog that is controlled under 'normal' circumstances and will not bite a human

But if for example someone fell and landed on the dog. THe dogs first reaction would be to bite. A dog with bite inhibition would not break the skin of that person

[Daisy]

Very interesting question. From my own experience, I own a staffy cross desexed male, Dozer, who shows very inappropriate body language around other dogs, therefore I am careful when introducing new dogs. Twice over the last 12 months he has got into scuffles with a foster dog, the first time when a door was accidentally left open, the second time when he seemed fine with another dog and then they had a spat for no reason. Neither time did he inflict any damage on the other dog. Dozer, however, has a hatred of one of my greyhounds. Despite them living in the same household for over 4 years now, he cannot be trusted with Clyde (greyhound) and I now keep them permanently seperated. I do not know what triggered Dozer's hatred of Clyde, but I do believe that he would try to kill Clyde if he got the chance. The very last time Dozer attacked Clyde, he had him by the back of the neck and was trying to shake him as he does with his toys - I believe trying to kill him. Before I realised how serious the situation was, there was a series of fights that escalated, to the point that Dozer did some very nasty damage to Clyde, taking pieces out of him. So while Dozer displays bite inhibition with other dogs, with Clyde he does not inhibit his bite at all. Leading one to think that perhaps bite inhibition is a choice not an unthinking response.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Daisy

[poochmad]

Hmm, good question Cosmolo. (That wink is for another thread where I spoke about bite inhibition.)

Fo me, I thought bite inhibition was a dog learning from a very young age not to bite hard - when they are pups and we teach them not to bite. So a dog that hasn't had that training, I would think would bite hard and there would be punture damage etc.

I have witnessed plenty of times when Henschke our male has been startled and has 'snapped' his head around, but made no contact. I wonder if he had not been taught to control his mouth, whether he would have actually bitten?

[Guest Ams]

I'd go with option two but add they must have the knowledge that they have the choice. I have recently had two dogs here that did not "speak dog". One learnt bite inhibition and was able to understand that scraps could be sorted with a bit of growl and tussle whereas the other ALWAYS retaliated with a full strength bite. It was hand raised as a puppy with no siblings so had no "doggy lessons" in socialisation.

[poodlefan]

I have seen confusion between what I call bite inhibition and bite thresholds

Inhibition = how hard the dog bites

Threshold = at what point it will bite. A low bite theshold dog is one that can be triggered to bite pretty easily.

Those two elements give you when a dog will bite and what sort of damage its likely to do if it does.

Breeds have been developed with different combinations of each. It does not surprise me that the No 1 dog in most Australian bite statistics has a low bite threshold and often, low bite inhibiton. I'd put money on many such dogs receiving little if any training in modifying their bites. Many dogs at the top of bite statistics were developed to use their teeth in the performance of tasks for people. Terriers, herding and protection breeds dominate those statistics. Alarmingly, breeds developed to have soft mouths are now making an entry due, no doubt to clueless breeding.

From what I have read, both can be modified to some degree, but not completely and NOT beyond puppyhood.

Edited February 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[Henrietta]

A slightly off topic question... I hope you don't mind Cosmolo.

Can a dog that is fearful and displays some aggressive responses to triggers (ie lunging, barking), still have a low or high bite threshold/inhibition?

Are these all dependent on each other or are they completely separate? A fearful dog will always have a low bit threshold?

[corvus]

Well, I think they are all independent. I've seen fearful dogs with very low bite thresholds and fearful dogs with very high bite thresholds. I knew a fearful dog with a moderately high bite threshold and a complete lack of bite inhibition, but with humans her bite threshold was far higher than it was with other dogs. I also knew a fearful dog with a very low bite threshold, but reasonable bite inhibition. The tricky thing is, if a dog is very frightened/aroused, they may not inhibit their bites. So in the case of the fearful dog with low bite threshold and good bite inhibition, there were times when he did bite seriously when he was very aroused.

Incidentally, there are good arguments that the majority of bite inhibition is taught by a pup's litter mates and mother. Roger Abrantes says that bite inhibition is a result of sibling punishment. Puppy bites sibling too hard, sibling yelps, puppy keeps biting too hard, sibling bites hard back. The puppy gets hurt and learns to pay attention to yelps and ease off the bite pressure when they hear it. By the time they are 8 weeks old they should already have a decent bite inhibition and what we teach them is just building on that foundation.

[Roguedog]

bite inhibition is usually started as a puppy with mum and siblings but most of my puppy clients have problems with mouthing which starts as soon as they bring pup home, the humans have to continue the training straight away...

bite inhibition to be is first of all teaching the pup how to control its jaws and vary its pressure. once they have learned that then I teach that mouthing (even just slobbering with almost no pressure) is unacceptable with humans. I believe it is a choice but develops into a habit, even the most soft mouthed dogs can and usually do unleash full pressure in extreme situations (ie being attacked)....

you can teach bite inhibition to older dogs but it can be harder and you need to be persistant.

eta: spelling!!

Edited February 20, 2010 by rubeedoo

[gila]

Personally, I take it to be that the dog's instinctive bites are not hard and that it understands that using its teeth on people is not acceptable.

I'd say any dog can and will bite hard but a dog with good bite inhibition does not do so without thinking.

Hi Cos

My first thought is pretty much what PF said. The only thing I'm second guessing is their 'instinctive' bites not being hard as instinctive tends to suggest reactionary and I'm not sure they would put much thought into a reactive bite. I don't know.

I agree with PF too.

SG: once when I was cutting my dog's nails, I accidentally cut the quick and he turned and grabbed my hand then released it immediately. I consider that a reactionary bite because he was responding to the pain, and was already stressed out because he doesn't like his feet held/nails cut. And yet he inhibited the bite, didn't break skin and released immediately.

[Cosmolo]

Interesting.

I am one who doesn't believe you can teach reliable bite inhibition in an adult dog- you can teach them not to use their mouth on people but this is different.

A fearful dog may have a lower bite threshold, but may not. You can increase bite threshold more easily than you can teach/ change bite inhibition. Increasing bite thresholds is really a foundation to dealing with aggression- it would rarely if ever impact bite inhibition though.

I agree with Corvus I think bite inhibition is learnt with Mum and littermates. And i think humans are AWFUL teachers of bite inhibition and never recommend any of my clients try to 'teach bite inhibition'. They provide other opportunities for the pup through socialisation, toys and games but not puppy being permitted to put their mouth on someone.

[poodlefan]

Interesting.

I am one who doesn't believe you can teach reliable bite inhibition in an adult dog- you can teach them not to use their mouth on people but this is different.

Patricia McConnell agrees with you. It's a one shot deal with a pup

I wonder if bite force can only be modified effectively in a still developing brain?

Edited February 20, 2010 by poodlefan