Voice Commands Or Hand Signals?

[tlc]

Hi guys, I was wondering what the basic percentage is of dogs that respond better to hand signals that voice commands?

At our obedience school we begin puppy handlers with only using hand signals, then down the track adding the word so for example luring the pup into a sit with food so the hand signal becomes the hand from the nose up so the pups but sits.

We were finding that so man new handlers were saying sit sit sit or drop drop drop, so we found this a good way for them to learn not to say anything to begin with and for the dog to just respond to hand signals which is great.

But it got me thinking and I did a few tests with my lot to test my theory. One of my girls is quite good at obedience but is so much more responsive if I use a hand signal and no words or the two combined, but now I really don't think she hears the words but just follows my hand signals. I gave this a good test the other night at tea time. She sits and waits for tea and her release to eat is a kind of sweeping hand motion towards the food and I say eat up. so she was sitting waiting for the food and i didn't use the hand signal but just said eat up, well she kind of looked at me as if to say "no fair" and she was solid in one spot and didn't move till I did the hand signal.

We do a test occasionally at dog school to see which dogs are responding to hand or voice but the handler putting thier dog in to a stay and just turnign thier back on them and saying the word sit to see if the dog will respond or not.

So this leads back to my question does your dog respond better to hand signals or voice commands, or will they respond to both. I am not fussed with mine as long as they tow the line to either voice or hand, and I realize the ones who trial etc the dog needs to respond to hand signals for certain things. But I just thought it interesting what others thought about this. Maybe it has been discusssed before??

[Vickie]

It's a good topic.

For agility, we use body & voice signals, but regularly have training sessions without speaking at all. My dogs will always follow my body over my voice. I tend to save my voice for desperate times .

Often people think their dogs are trained to voice but they are actually giving off subtle body signals that they are not even aware of. Most dogs are very aware of those signals & will act/react accordingly.

[PAX]

IME, dogs will always pick the body cue over a word. I train my dogs to know both, they can sit, drop, stand and lots of other stuff off both types of signals. But if I give a hand cue to sit and pair it with a verbal down at the same time, they will always trust the hand cue...it's really interesting and a great way see what they know and what you think they know.

I often play a game with them to see what verbals they truely know, I ask the verbals in different positions, can you sit off a verbal if I'm laying down, have my hands in the air, have my back to you, etc. If they struggle, I help them but they seem to enjoy the game.

[alpha bet]

Tend to use both - however personally i rely more on the body than the voice.

In class I always teach people to start off with just the hand signals. This stops them nagging the commands. Once the dog well to the hand signals then we can introduce the words. The only voice commands we start of with straight away is the release word when using clickers etc. (and of course any voice praise always encouraged)

It does seem to help people concentrate on the excercise more if they keep their mouth closed.... Often with new people if the mouth is closed the eyes are open.

The other thing I like to consider is that some people get excited when they start talking and their energy doesnt control well - if they have a hyper sensitive dog it often seems easier to keep them at body commands for the long term.

[tlc]

Hi Vickie, it is amazing how the dogs pick up every little subtle body movement. We also occasionally do a session of training at obedience with no voice and just signals it is good to see the dogs working to your body language. I have tried the other way around with using voice only and it doesnt catch on

As for desperate times, I have a few words that I use in an emergency in a VERY high pitched voice that works a treat, pardon the pun treats is one of the words!!

I realized one day that my dogs respond to me saying "this way" just walking through the park and they are way ahead and I change direction and say this way, they just do an about face and change direction too, I guess that is just a learned behaviour to a word as they have turned to see why I have spoken and I have changed direction so after a while it becomes ingrained. it is an interesting topic as we have found a lot of people thnk thier dogs are responding to their voice but they are not, they are responding to thier body signals.

[tlc]

IME, dogs will always pick the body cue over a word. I train my dogs to know both, they can sit, drop, stand and lots of other stuff off both types of signals. But if I give a hand cue to sit and pair it with a verbal down at the same time, they will always trust the hand cue...it's really interesting and a great way see what they know and what you think they know.

I often play a game with them to see what verbals they truely know, I ask the verbals in different positions, can you sit off a verbal if I'm laying down, have my hands in the air, have my back to you, etc. If they struggle, I help them but they seem to enjoy the game.

I have been trying a similar game with mine but with all of them together and name recognision (sp) it is interesting that they all know thier own names individually and respond accordingly.

Tend to use both - however personally i rely more on the body than the voice.

In class I always teach people to start off with just the hand signals. This stops them nagging the commands. Once the dog well to the hand signals then we can introduce the words. The only voice commands we start of with straight away is the release word when using clickers etc. (and of course any voice praise always encouraged)

It does seem to help people concentrate on the excercise more if they keep their mouth closed.... Often with new people if the mouth is closed the eyes are open.

The other thing I like to consider is that some people get excited when they start talking and their energy doesnt control well - if they have a hyper sensitive dog it often seems easier to keep them at body commands for the long term.

that is a good way to put it, we find the pups get so confused and the handlers get frustrated, so no words works so much better for the dog and the handler and it gives them an idea of how the dog can learn with out words. We have a lot of people come to Obedience and wonder why thier dog wont sit and we say ok show us what you do, so they just look at the dog and say the word, Some people dont realize dogs do NOT understand english well they do but like us they still have to be taught it.

[tlc]

Interestingly enough we had a lady in class the other day that was in awe of the hand signals etc as her old dog only knew voice commands and it had gotten harder as he got older as he went deaf and now they cant tell him what to do as he cant hear them. She said oh it would have been so much easier if we taught him using hand signals.

[huski]

I train both but I like to make sure Daisy has solid responses to voice commands only.

I find the tone I give the command in makes a massive difference. She wasn't downing 100% reliably on voice only even though she knows the command word and then I realized if I asked the command like a question (so my voice as higher pitched) she would down reliably every single time.

[Jetty]

Jet responds to hand signals more. I used to repeat the words heaps when I first started. Now I will use a mix of just hand signals or hand and vocal.

[tlc]

I train both but I like to make sure Daisy has solid responses to voice commands only.

I find the tone I give the command in makes a massive difference. She wasn't downing 100% reliably on voice only even though she knows the command word and then I realized if I asked the command like a question (so my voice as higher pitched) she would down reliably every single time.

This is interesting, similarly I found with my lot teaching stay, if I just said stay in a light voice and even if I give the signal I use for stay they would break thier stay but if i say "STAY" with conviction, they stay and they are rock solid. and I dont meant in a gruff nasty voice, just calm and assertive they really respond to that i think they know I mean it.

[tlc]

Jet responds to hand signals more. I used to repeat the words heaps when I first started. Now I will use a mix of just hand signals or hand and vocal.

Sometimes I think they respond to the hand signals better especailly if you have tended to over use the words, they seem to turn off. A bit like a kid saying mum over and over again, they become Immune to it. I also use a combo of both, I guess not all hand signals suit every situation and interestingly so far the majority prefer hand signals. I think with my lot they respond better to hand signals. Im trying to remember some thing from my training and I think it went something like for a dog in this order nose, eyes, ears. I could be wrong but if thats the case they will see before they hear?? Please correct me if Im wrong on that one!

[PAX]

Another great verbal test is to stand next to your dog...do nothing and give your verbal release word without moving a muscle. Most dogs will maintian the sit at heel.

I have seen this done many times and the handler is/was 100% confident the dog knew the release word, clearly it did not.

Dogs pick up so many more body cues than we give them credit for.

Edited February 19, 2010 by PAX

[tlc]

Dogs pick up so many more body cues than we give them credit for.

Yes they sure do, and so many people are unaware of a particular thinkg they will do to make the dog respond in a certain way and it isnt until it is pointed out to them that they realize what it is they were doing wrong or right as the case maybe.

I dont actually use a release word, in training but out and about I guess my release word at an off leash park would be "off you go" my lot will stick close even off lead at times, and If I say "off you go" they seem to respond to that and run off ahead, I will have to take particular note next time to see if I do any other body language associated with "off you go"

[PAX]

It's a great test, our dogs should know on and off, this will let you know if you have trained it correctly.

ETA for crap typing.

Edited February 19, 2010 by PAX

[~*Shell*~]

I use both and I try to make sure Zero knows both the signal and the voice command - he will eventually go deaf though (he goes deaf when he has an ear infection now) so I'm training him to respond to hand signals only. He is very good at it, though in a distracting environment, he needs big signals.

[tlc]

Ok I have a tricky one, All my lot are good at different things. So heres the thing my white girl Tully is a champion retriever especially with a ball, In obedience once we pass this level, she has to sit and wait while I throw the ball then wait for my command to go get it. So she knows sit she knows wait and she knows stay and is pretty solid with her stays but no amount of hand signals or voice commands will get her to stay while I throw that ball, her drive for the ball is just to high, so how do I deal with this any suggestions? Maybe I should have started a new thread but here seemed appropriate I guess since I started this one. The only thing I can think to do is keep reinforcing her stays and practice. Has anyone else had this problem?

[TerraNik]

Hand signals all the way.

[RubyStar]

One of mine responds better to verbal, the other responds better to hand signals/body language. They weren't trained in any obviously different way I don't think I like mine to know each type on their own and combined, so it's a work in progress

[corvus]

I'm pretty sure there has been at least one study on this where they trained puppies some with voice, some with hand signals and voice, and some with hand signals alone. If I remember correctly, the voice alone pups lagged significantly behind the rest of them. I use both, but only bring the verbal cue in later.

How strong is Tully's stay? Pretty strong as in rock solid, or pretty strong as in reliable except in exciting situations? IME, if you reward something enough it becomes a strongly conditioned response and can override instinct. Having said that, I know a dog that goes over threshold every time you throw a toy, and some dogs have such strong chase responses that they don't actually hear a command once they are in the zone. I reckon put her in a stay and start by throwing it just a half a metre or something in front of her and see if she can hold a stay for that. Surely there's a point where she can hold a stay, even if you just do a lollipop throw of 20cm. Less movement equals less arousal.

[bedazzledx2]

Thats a good plan RubyStar. As you go up the classes (yes you will ) you'll need both verbal and signals separately for UD and UDX so its good to train both.

One of mine responds better to verbal, the other responds better to hand signals/body language. They weren't trained in any obviously different way I don't think I like mine to know each type on their own and combined, so it's a work in progress :p