goldenluv Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I was at the dog beach this morning with my 7month old goldie ( I try and go when it is quiet only 2 or 3 dogs) he is silly as a wheel, but loves everyone and everything. I do not trust him to come back when called yet so had him on a long lead to have a walk up and down the beach we passed a lab and a border collie, the dogs came up and had a sniff and said good morning tail wagging everywhere one of the people did ask why i had the boy on lead and when i said why they where ok with it we walked on and 2 older men came along with a kelpie and a cattle dog x, the cattle dog x came up sniffed the boy and then tried to bite his face and started to growl I just yelled to the dogs to stop it one of the men said 'you change the dynamics with him being on lead what do you expect'. so after all that what I would like to know is am I doing the wrong thing, taking my dog to a dog beach on a lead added a pic of the horror child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I am not an expert. But having your dog on the lead because you are afraid he will not have good recall is not in the wrong. If these guys dog acted like that I would expect them to have the dog on a lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 No, you are not. Other people are expected to keep their dogs under control. The issue with your dog being on lead can change the dynamic, but that generally affects YOUR dogs behaviour more than others. If you don't have effective control over him yet, you are doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 You did the right thing and being a responsible dog owner. what the guy said, it doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 No, you are not. Other people are expected to keep their dogs under control. The issue with your dog being on lead can change the dynamic, but that generally affects YOUR dogs behaviour more than others. If you don't have effective control over him yet, you are doing the right thing. what PF said. Dogs need to be under effective control and having yours on a long line allows that. Having another dog come up to yours uninvited and growl in his face is not on. If it happens again I wouild point out to the other owner that your dogs IS under effective control - their dog is NOT. Yes a leash might change the dynamics but that's beside the point if you are not inviting the other dog over to say hello anyway. I dont trust my boys recall yet and I would do the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Dogs need to be under effective control and having yours on a long line allows that. Having another dog come up to yours uninvited and growl in his face is not on. If it happens again I wouild point out to the other owner that your dogs IS under effective control - their dog is NOT. exactly!!!! You were NOT in the wrong....unfortunately, some people view "off lead" as "free for all" and have no concept that they still need to have control over their dog. I always teach training clients that no matter where they are, they must always ask before allowing their dog to approach an on leash dog. Having YOUR dog on lead may exacerbate behaviour if YOUR dog is aggressive, and even then, only under certain circumstances (sometimes even a lead aggro dog will be nce & calm if there is no tension in the lead)......this guy was probably just being rude to you because it was clear to all that he had not got effective control over his dog, and offence is the best form of defence in some peoples books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 You are doing the responsible thing. If everytime you are at the beach and your dog barrels off and you call him, he has been highly reinforced for running away (ie interaction with a person or other dog) and he has just learnt that come means run off in the opposite direction. Yes the dynamics will change, but for your dog not the other. People use that as an excuse for their dog when it picks a fight or won't come back. They try to pin it on your lead - totally off the mark in my opinion. Keep doing what you are doing you are teaching your dog he can have a run around but not choof off when he feels like it. I would walk with your dog on the beach any day as opposed to some of the other dogs and idiots I run into now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 No, you are not. Other people are expected to keep their dogs under control. The issue with your dog being on lead can change the dynamic, but that generally affects YOUR dogs behaviour more than others. If you don't have effective control over him yet, you are doing the right thing. what PF said. Dogs need to be under effective control and having yours on a long line allows that. Having another dog come up to yours uninvited and growl in his face is not on. If it happens again I wouild point out to the other owner that your dogs IS under effective control - their dog is NOT. Yes a leash might change the dynamics but that's beside the point if you are not inviting the other dog over to say hello anyway. I dont trust my boys recall yet and I would do the same thing TOTALLY 100% AGREE! It's what I'd have to do as well (Sasha has VERY selective hearing when it comes to her recall)... and I wouldn't feel bad about it in the slightest. Being in an offlead area doesn't mean it's a free for all for all the dogs. They still need to be under control, and not allowed to randomly invade people and their dogs personal space without permission or invitation... So don't feel you have to avoid offlead areas just because you choose to keep your dogs onlead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I used to get told all the time when my pup was on lead that i am looking for trouble and that he will be 'attacked' by other dogs. At one park in particular in entered through one gate, had the dog on the lead until I was through the second gate, well before I was even opening the second gate a rottweiler was growling at my dog through the fence, the guy said to me you better take him off lead before you open the gate or my dog will attack him??? I said to him no way was I allowing my dog off lead in there with his psycho dog and I took my dog home because i didnt want to risk it. What made me crosser still was that there was a sign on the gate that said no dogs on leads and this guy used that as his defense. Its not right. If your dog will attack a dog on lead or off lead you should not take your dog out in a public area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 I used to get told all the time when my pup was on lead that i am looking for trouble and that he will be 'attacked' by other dogs.At one park in particular in entered through one gate, had the dog on the lead until I was through the second gate, well before I was even opening the second gate a rottweiler was growling at my dog through the fence, the guy said to me you better take him off lead before you open the gate or my dog will attack him??? I said to him no way was I allowing my dog off lead in there with his psycho dog and I took my dog home because i didnt want to risk it. What made me crosser still was that there was a sign on the gate that said no dogs on leads and this guy used that as his defense. Its not right. If your dog will attack a dog on lead or off lead you should not take your dog out in a public area. Jeez!!! So it's perfectly ok for his dog to ambush people at the gate & attack their dogs??? What an idiot!!! I think I can guess which park this was at......I've seen them milling around at the gate waiting for fresh meat...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 You're not in the wrong - but I'd only be doing it at parks that I know and where I know most of the dogs - because there are many idiots out there who think off leash = anything goes. I walk my girl on leash at in an off leash area (but never a dog park), but I know most of the dogs. There are a few dogs that jump all over her and if they are there I leave and go somewhere else. Her safety isn't worth risking just to be "right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) Being on lead can change the dynamics. However, if that is the case in those instances, why do those people allow their dogs to come up to other dogs who are on-lead? One reason - they don't have effective control. They are wrong. But most of them will never hear it. Personally, I don't think THAT message is made clear enough by the Councils. Perhaps instead of putting up signs to indicate "Off-Lead" areas, their signs should read "Effective Control" areas. Edited February 19, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Except then everyone would believe every other area is a no-control area Erny! Add me to the chorus of "you are right and responsible, keep it up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vix Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) Hi Goldenluv What a cutie, I bet he is an absolute terror! I'm a behavioural trainer and I see this a lot. It's a difficult time with a pup this age, who doesn't have the best recall as you are faced with a couple of issues and have to weigh up what's going to work best for you. Obviously you need to make sure he's going to come back, but yes the lead makes a huge difference to other dogs. It's all a matter of misinterprated body language when a dog is on lead. Especially with a bouncy puppy keen to get closer to the other dogs. When the lead is tight it makes your dogs body point directly at the other dog (in a stright line as such) and if your dog is pulling it also tends to make them look as though the chest is out. Both of these are aggressive posturing signs to another. This is especially enhanced with retrievers vs working dogs. I always explain it like two different cultures meeting. A really overly friendly American who wants to be your best friend and a very reserved Englishman who has personal space issues (sorry to all the Americans and English out there). Retrievers tend to bounce up to other dogs in a fairly direct line, where as working dogs are usually a bit more anxious and like to preform obvious body language rituals, curve in toward the other dog, sniff bums etc. I have a particular interest in working dog vs retriever, body language as I have a Koolie, who's idea of hell is a Golden Retriever puppy. She is definitely the Englishman! If a GR pup runs up to her in the park she will go through all her repertoire of "go away" body language in half a second, and if the pup isn't listening, she will first show her teeth and then snap. This isn't aggressive as such (she isn't going to fight or take it any further) and she is in complete control, she is basically saying 'go away, go away, GO AWAY'. The pup will usually roll on his back. In the dog world this is all ok, but obviously for most owners seeing your pup snapped at and them throw themselves to the ground in front of an 'aggressive' dog can be quite terrifying! Now obviously I'm not saying that this would be what was happening in your experience but it's definitely something to be aware of. A couple of tips to help out in this situation; when your dog is meeting other dogs in close proximity, be brave and drop the lead. This means that he can move around the other dogs and preform better body language (keep in mind though as a pup he might be too much for some dogs). And if you can when you meet owners and dogs, rather than stand around chatting, try to keep everyone moving in the same direction, a lot of park fights start with everyone standing around in close quarters. And most of all, practice, practice, practice, your recall! Good luck Vix PS - I'm not referring to those idiot owners without control over their dogs (we've all experienced enough of them) but general issues associated with leads vs off lead. Edited February 19, 2010 by Vix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenluv Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 Thank you to everyone for your opinons, glad to have a place like this to get help and support. It's very hard sometimes to work out if your doing the right thing for your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 It's very hard sometimes to work out if your doing the right thing for your dog. I don't think that ever stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 It's very hard sometimes to work out if your doing the right thing for your dog. Thing is, you should be able to do what you want or feel you need to do with your dog, especially when you are keeping to yourself. You should be entitled to your own peaceable enjoyment of the public area. Should, should, should ..... Things such as this will continue to occur, but the spreading of the message shouldn't be aborted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Except then everyone would believe every other area is a no-control area Erny! .... you're quite right, molasseslass. I guess if they included the words "Effective Control" on their signs, it might help though. I say "effective control" and people don't even comprehend what that means, whether it exists, nor that it has anything to do with Council law. They seem to put far more emphasis on "off-lead" - and as it happens, that's almost the only words that are 'signed', so no-where you can immediately point people back to for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenluv Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 It's very hard sometimes to work out if your doing the right thing for your dog. I don't think that ever stops. LOL looks like more grey hairs in the future And just have to say how regal looking your poodle is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Actually, I wonder if they put signs up to say "Recall your dog every 90 seconds" - similar to what Berwick Obedience have. THAT might get people thinking and it might show up to those in denial exactly how much they DON'T have control. I'm not suggesting it would or could be policed, but it would at least state the obvious by self-example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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