Dogs Leave Pony For Dead, The Law On Side

[sausy.dog]

Licencing livestock etc is a ridiculous idea. Apart from anything else it could never be followed up, keeping track of who has and hasn't got the appropriate licensing would not be feasible. We own a 20 acre block and there are countless similar size holdings all over the place, not to mention individual cat, dog, bird owners - there is no way that any organisation could keep a record of who has, hasn't, needs, doesn't need an animal license. As it is, in our council area, there would be countless dogs not even registered. If the council cannot find all these how are they going to make all these owners sit down and do a little test on animal nutrition.

[spottychick]

Hmmmm interesting discussion

I think you can draw a difference between "pets" and livestock when you're looking at licensing pet ownership. Farmers are subject to other regulations. And successful farmers should know how to look after their animals and I think, generally they do, it's their livelihood. You always get idiots of course, like the one in Tassie who had pigs in the most appalling conditions - but the regs for food production and various regulatory bodies SHOULD be looking after those sort of disgusting farming practices.

[WoofnHoof]

I don't recall anyone suggesting an annual license, you don't have to take a driving test every year to know the basics! Every 10 years or so what's so hard about a simple test in animal care? Those of us who know aren't going to be put out that much and at least it provides for some form of compulsory education. Monitoring would be easy enough if the cops see you with an animal or an animal on your property they can ask to see your license same as they do if they see you driving.

A test incorporating body condition scores would cover both malnutrition and obesity and while there are people who will always do the wrong thing at least they can't say they didn't know! And it might help the truly ignorant become educated.

Personally I would rather put myself out for half an hour to do a basic test if it meant that more people who own animals have to learn and have a certain amount of accountability.

The potential revenue from fines would certainly provide the motivation for enforcing compliance, the current system which allows people to avoid large fines on the basis of their ignorance isn't really working is it?

We can hope that animal production industries can be self-regulating but I'd rather put farmers out for half an hour than rely on regulation from within.

[whippets]

I don't recall anyone suggesting an annual license, you don't have to take a driving test every year to know the basics! Every 10 years or so what's so hard about a simple test in animal care? Those of us who know aren't going to be put out that much and at least it provides for some form of compulsory education. Monitoring would be easy enough if the cops see you with an animal or an animal on your property they can ask to see your license same as they do if they see you driving.

A test incorporating body condition scores would cover both malnutrition and obesity and while there are people who will always do the wrong thing at least they can't say they didn't know! And it might help the truly ignorant become educated.

Personally I would rather put myself out for half an hour to do a basic test if it meant that more people who own animals have to learn and have a certain amount of accountability.

The potential revenue from fines would certainly provide the motivation for enforcing compliance, the current system which allows people to avoid large fines on the basis of their ignorance isn't really working is it?

We can hope that animal production industries can be self-regulating but I'd rather put farmers out for half an hour than rely on regulation from within.

This thread is getting more bizarre each time I read posts like this.

[WoofnHoof]

I don't recall anyone suggesting an annual license, you don't have to take a driving test every year to know the basics! Every 10 years or so what's so hard about a simple test in animal care? Those of us who know aren't going to be put out that much and at least it provides for some form of compulsory education. Monitoring would be easy enough if the cops see you with an animal or an animal on your property they can ask to see your license same as they do if they see you driving.

A test incorporating body condition scores would cover both malnutrition and obesity and while there are people who will always do the wrong thing at least they can't say they didn't know! And it might help the truly ignorant become educated.

Personally I would rather put myself out for half an hour to do a basic test if it meant that more people who own animals have to learn and have a certain amount of accountability.

The potential revenue from fines would certainly provide the motivation for enforcing compliance, the current system which allows people to avoid large fines on the basis of their ignorance isn't really working is it?

We can hope that animal production industries can be self-regulating but I'd rather put farmers out for half an hour than rely on regulation from within.

This thread is getting more bizarre each time I read posts like this.

I'm confused you mean you don't think the police currently pull people over at random to check for licenses? I've been pulled over before for RBT, broken taillights etc and they often ask to see my license at the same time. If the police currently cruise the highways looking for breaches of the law you think they wouldn't peek in people's yards and check for licenses to own animals (particularly if it meant potential revenue)?

It wouldn't inconvenience me or you any more than random RBTs do but it would definetly inconvenience someone doing the wrong thing, as it currently does for people who drive without licenses.

ETA the points system would be handy and easy to implement too, ie every time your dog lands in the pound you lose x amount of points with a limit of x amount of times and after that you lose your license and your dog. You could argue that someone who really wants to can go buy another dog but if it's illegal to sell a dog to someone without a license then you would find far less people willing to break that rule - and also restrict puppy sales to only those people who make the effort to pass the test and maintain their license.

Edited February 20, 2010 by WoofnHoof

[k9angel]

I believe Responsible Pet Ownership should be a part of our childrens schooling.

I mean they teach algebra, art and the like. Why not start teaching kids from a young age, how to handle or not handle a dog? or any other pet? Some kids, after all, dont have the priveledge of pets in their lives, or rarely have ctc with them, others (like my kids) live with animals everyday of their lives. I think all kids would benefit with some guidance and education, if not by their parents - at least at school. (sorry a little OT there)

As for the dogs in question I too believe they should be pts.

I have seen the damage dogs can do, both chasing and attacking sheep. Not nice at all. When I lived in Manildra (population about 500 then) I had my 4 huskies.

Some sheep were being attacked and ofcoarse being newcomers to town and having what they seen as wolves assumed it was my dogs. I knew it wasnt. My dogs never left the yard, now or then. PLUS they slept inside at night.

Then early one morning I hear the distressing cries of the sheep in the paddock across from us.

They were basically being eaten alive by these 3 pigging dogs.... I had never seen anything like it in my life and was horrified. The local policeman came, aswell as the ranger and shot the poor suffering sheep.

I remember holding my hands over my ears to block the sound of the gunshot. (Coming from Syd this was all knew to me ) the policeman had a word to the owners, some local boys and they (the boys) took the dogs out bush to shoot them.

Then a few wks back, OH was out walking Chloe and was chased down by 4 dogs, amstaff, staffy and pups (parents and 2 pups) (neighbours dogs)I had a thread on it actually. At first I laughed at him, thinking he was just imagining things. But there were 4 of them. Live almost directly across the road and we'd never seen them. Those dogs went on to kill some poor persons dog that night. As far as I know they actually got into a yard to rip the dog apart. :D

This happened a few blocks from us but neighbours say they heard the death curdling screams of both dogs and people, so it must of been a horrific attack. Two of those dogs ended up at Blacktown pound.

One went missing the night they escaped and the other poor pup, is left there alone, to basically rot in the back yard. ;) The scary thing is, I think he got them back!!!!! They were at the pound for weeks and weeks, went from site, then the other night we hear an odd bark. It sounded like the male amstaff. I never went back to ask...

I dont think there is any place in our society for dogs like that, OR the people that own them.

I feel sorry for this lady and her pony....

[mutt lover]

Having had a dog killed in a dog attack 11 years ago it is something that doesn't erase itself over time, You are forever fearful when walking any dog after that, In my case it was a malamute which had previously attacked other dogs in area where I lived at time and had been reported and impounded for being out of property, council ranger told me and this is a quote ' It is normal for big dogs to attack small ones'! If this is the mentality of all council ranger's than no wonder this keeps happening over and over again.

Malamute was pts and owner did pay the vet bill but only after I put it to them that I was willing to take it to court and had contaced Dr Graeme Smith from lost dogs home who was wonderful and very helpful to me. IMO this is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted, I was then abused by malamute's owners in the street and told that when I got a new dog they would get another dog and would let that one kill my new dog also there are some people who just shouldn't own animals.

A friend of mine had trouble for a couple of years with her baby lamb's going missing thought someone was stealing them as there was no evidence of any attack in paddock nothing until last year when she happened to see a ridgeback type of dog come through next door paddock into paddock where the new lambs were he'd already got 1 but luckily didn't get the other 2, she chased dog out as she couldn't get near it to catch it and seen it went onto property across road from where they live, so confronted the owner who laughed and said ('Oh I'd wondered why he hadn't been hungry lately' ) Unbelievable rang the council ranger they said they'd go and have a talk to them and he advised friend to shoot dog if it came over again.

[WoofnHoof]

Predator vs prey interactions are rarely neat and pretty, it is the way of nature it's not like the dogs have the understanding of how to 'humanely' kill and eat their prey. Some of the more finely honed killing instincts have been dulled by selective breeding so the act loses some of it's 'efficiency', all the more reason to encourage effective containment but to say dogs deserve to die because they 'ripped open this poor baby lamb and started eating it alive' is like saying that wild lions and wolves deserve to die because they don't stop to check that their prey (often juveniles) is completely dead before they start eating it, or because it wasn't killed with the absolute utmost efficiency. These are animals with perfectly normal instincts just because most pets are adequately contained and never have the opportunity to rip apart someone's baby lamb doesn't mean they lack the capacity. Similarly you couldn't logically blame a dog for biting a kid that had just shoved a pencil into it's eardrum (even though people do), because that behaviour is instinctive and to be expected under the circumstances.

[casowner]

There is already a sytem in place for identifying what properties have livestock. Many people do not abide by it, but everytime we sell sheep etc we have to fill out our form to give the new owners details.

The Property Identification Code is done through PIRSA

All properties that run livestock (cattle, sheep, pigs etc) should be registered with PIRSA.

Registration of livestock will help to maintain our overseas markets and also assist in improving production efficiency by permitting better national disease control programs.

Registration means animals are identified individually or at least to their herd or flock and hence traceable, through the market chain, back to their property of origin. This is essential for control of the major infectious diseases, particularly exotic disease outbreaks such as foot-and-mouth disease. It is also imperative in resolving residue incidents.

We have to let the know what livestock we keep eg sheep, cattle, goats, alpacas, camels, horses.

Extra Info

Who should use this form?

All properties that run livestock (cattle, sheep, pigs etc) should be registered with Primary Industries and Resources SA (PIRSA). This form replaces the 'Application for Allotment of Property Identification Code' form.

Why register?

Registration of livestock will help to maintain our overseas markets and also assist in improving production efficiency by permitting better national disease control programs.

Registration means animals are identified individually or at least to their herd or flock and hence traceable, through the market chain, back to their property of origin. This is essential for control of the major infectious diseases, particularly exotic disease outbreaks such as Foot-and-Mouth disease. It is also imperative in resolving residue incidents.

Europe has already introduced birth to death traceability of livestock and is demanding trading partners adopt similar schemes.

How are animals identified?

Property Identification Code (PIC) numbers are allocated to all properties running cattle, sheep, pigs, deer, goats, alpacas and buffalo. The PIC number is used on Livestock Identification devices as the primary method of identification. However, for Pigs and Apiaries, the primary method of identification is a Brand consisting of three letters.

Currently all cattle, including calves, must be identified with an approved device bearing the registered PIC before they leave the property for sale or slaughter. This enables the source of any disease or chemical residue to be traced back to the property of origin.

[centitout]

If mine get out(hope they never do) and they attack /"play" with someones stock,i would fully expect them not to come home.Because all dogs possess to some degree prey drive,is not an excuse dogs to kill stock,often repeatedly .YOU are responsible if your stock /dogs get out,whether intentionally or not.And of course all dogs have the capability to kill,it is up to YOU as a responsible owner to ensure they never have the opportunity if you live in an area with stock.

I am paying a heap this year to do more fencing on a rental property as we are bordered by small farms with a lot of alpacas,but i have to do it to make sure my dogs,if they do ever get out,cant get to them.

[casowner]

Yesterday afternoon the two cockers were out again chasing rabbits, they were running onto our property and then onto the road. I rang the neighbours to say they were on the road - 20 minutes later they drove past looking for them. By then I had already seen them run up the paddock and probably onto our other property. We went up to feed the horses/ponies and one donkey and didn't see them but they could have been anywhere. This time I left Jake off and they went in with the colt and donkey gelding but not near the other animals. The colt and donkey chased them out and luckily the dogs missed their hooves which were aimed at their heads.

[whippets]

A donkey or mule would make short work of a dog. My ex's family use donkeys to protect their cows in Virginia.

Edited February 21, 2010 by whippets

[pigpup]

bloody stock chasing and or killing dogs should be shot with their idiot owners next in line.

thankfully there is basically zero tolerance for that shit here and the land holders shoot first ask later.

[Alyosha]

Late in this thread I know sorry. ;)

But chasing is attacking, by law in NSW:

COMPANION ANIMALS ACT 1998 - SECT 16

Offences where dog attacks person or animal

16 Offences where dog attacks person or animal

(1) If a dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal (other than vermin), whether or not any injury is caused to the person or animal:

(a) the owner of the dog, or

(b) if the owner is not present at the time of the offence and another person who is of or above the age of 16 years is in charge of the dog at that time-that other person,

is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty:

(a) 50 penalty units except in the case of a dangerous or restricted dog, or

(b) 300 penalty units in the case of a dangerous or restricted dog.

As for enforcement. Normally there is a level of remorse from the owners of dogs who get up to thi sort of stuff, and monetary matters are sorted out as a "gentlemans" agreement between parties. For people that don't want to comply of course there is criminal and/or action able to be taken and compensation sought through the Courts.

But that obviously doesn't bring back people's beloved pets or livestock.

[ddcmd83]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum, but randomly found it on the net when I saw the head line of this post.

It caught my eye because I am actually the owner of the 2 mini ponies that were killed in this horrific tragedy. I have read all the comments left about this topic and just wanted to say a huge THANKYOU!! To everyone who has left and said so many wonderful kind words in relation to my ponies. I have grown up breeding ponies with my parents and since buying our own place have been breeding minis. Even though ponies are a bigger animal (most of the time) that most dogs, and by many considered ‘Livestock’ to me they are like my children. I love them all so dearly and do my best to keep them safe and well cared for. The youngest filly 'Fluffy' was only 4 months old and was the one the dogs had already killed when we arrived, my other filly Pippy was only 10 months old and was badly mauled and barley alive when we arrived, the vets from Cobbitty uni came swiftly but despite their efforts her injuries were just to severe to repair. I also had my 3 yr old Stallion there as well and he only suffered minor injuries which were repairable. I am also a dog owner and breeder myself of Mini Foxies, and I have gone to great lengths ensuring my property has sufficient containment in place to keep my dogs in their own yard. (We do not own the paddock where the horses were killed we just used to keep them their as it is vacant land to eat the grass down for the older man that owns it.)

After reading some of the posts I just wanted to say that I do not under any circumstances want the dogs destroyed due to revenge, If anyone had seen the savage ripped apart mess that I faced that day, and even whilst I sat on the ground crying trying to save my 10 month old filly, whilst the dogs continued to come back trying to drag off the body of the 4 month old filly they had already killed, and to then hear from other neighbours that these same dogs had killed other livestock in the area previously as well as attacked 2 separate lots of people with children whilst walking you too would want these dogs destroyed for that fact that they have proven on more than one occasion (Officially reported or not) that they are dangerous and a menace to society.

Unfortunately my case was the first officially reported and this is why they were given a second chance. The bills from this tragedy was just on $5000 which makes their loss even harder. I also have read the post saying that they have now been surrendered which one would think would make my day, but it doesn't, yes it pleases me to know that no one else will be harmed by these dogs, but neither the surrendering of those dogs nor any amount of money will ever bring back my beautiful girls who I think about and miss daily. I have nightmares every night reliving that awful day and those bloody, gory images. My horses will never be kept on that property again, and I can’t even bring myself to drive down that street where they were killed.

Thanks again to all the responsible dog owners who do the right thing by their own pets and others.

Finally I would just like to post the following which is a copy of my dedication to my beautiful baby girls from my stud web site:

Our beautiful princesses know that we love you always; we will never forget you and we will fight to the end for your justice. Your lives here with us were cut unfairly short, but my darlings enjoy your everlasting lives in the big paddock in the sky. I know the Lord will take care of you until the day we meet again.

Farewell my babies, rest in peace.

xoxox

[spottychick]

Hi ddcmd - thanks for posting. How terrible that these dogs have done all this damage and still NOTHING comes back on those owners.

Your dedication made me cry - I am so sorry you lost these beautiful babies - and in such horrific circumstances.

[casowner]

Again as a pet owner and lover I offer my truest condolences to you and your family. I looked at one of my mini's last night who is only 25 inches tall and thought that he would have no chance if a dog came onto the property, I spent about 10 minutes crying into his neck thinking of the tragedy that you suffered.

RIP little ones

[nellbell]

Poor babies - a terrible, terrible thing. to you and your family