Training Talk Thread

[Staff'n'Toller]

huski your already on the dark side when you own a BC - or in my case maybe I don't actually own a BC apparently she is really a black and white malinois .

And as for amypie - ner ner ner ner. I actually did think about using it 2 months ago but I had yet to work out a way to stake it to the ground so it went into the to hard basket.

Buy some sand bags from Dot Mitchell.

[The Spotted Devil]

I think poor Ella needs a new handler! I went out to do a quick seek back session with her this morning, I sent her to find it and she searched and searched and searched and searched. I thought I'd just let her go as long as she could to see what would happen if she couldn't find it in a trial. She ran over the spot where I dropped it several times and just didn't seem to indicate it, so here I am thinking that she was just clueless, after several very long minutes she finally stopped in front of me as if to say it's not here mum... so I walked around looking for it with her seeking for it and we couldn't find it, on a whim I thought I'd check my boot, and sure enough the blasted thing fell down my boot when I dropped it, no wonder the poor girl couldn't find it!!! I felt sooo bad for her cos she tried sooo hard to find it! I did another short one after that and made sure it was on the ground and she had no trouble finding it! I'll bet if I tried to drop the thing down my boot I wouldn't have a hope!

Sorry Seita, but that's bloody hilarious Poor dog

I had an interesting time with our baby seek back - next door's property is vacant (owners live interstate) so I used some fresh ground to see how we were progressing. Ziggy was a bit confused at first (the whole generalisation thing) but soon got the idea. Then I decided to take the article on our forrest walk as he has been offering some really nice enthusiastic heel work after doing zoomies - clearly chasing a biscuit to warm his empty tummy The first time I tried the baby seek back he looked at me like I had gone mad and just offered me more heel position but yesterday I tried once more and his eyes lit up. He absolutely BOLTED back from whence we came and clearly over shot the mark but then put his nose to the ground and headed straight back towards me and found the article. No pi$$ing this time The track was very wet and muddy and there were great smells, sticks and all sorts of loverly things on the ground.

Sooooo, I'm interested in opinions - has he "got it"???? The thing is, he BOLTS in that first few metres (I can't think of any other way to describe it - he sprints like agility!) rather than sedately putting his nose to the ground from the beginning like I see the trialling dogs do. I don't want to impact on his enthusiasm in the slightest (and it's bloody funny to boot) but not sure he is doing it "right"??? Thanks

[ness]

Not sure TSD. I had Ness doing a full length one inside maybe a fortnight and she has only ever missed one in her entire life - lots of duck poo around and really long grass and I think only one dog all day managed that one. Her style has changed she definitely takes way more short cuts now. She has also found ones that other dogs haven't been able to find.

I wouldn't worry about the bolting. Ness has occasionally shot off and then stuck her nose down.

Edited June 10, 2010 by ness

[RubyStar]

amypie we have been busy training just not agility .

I'm more shocked because I've been waiting 3 months for them to restock the tunnels so I could buy one and yours has been sitting there doing nothing the entire time

Shocked, peeved, same diff

[ness]

Ah well I am sure you'll getoverit .

Edited June 10, 2010 by ness

[huski]

Ok question regarding the seek back - I am thinking of training Daisy to do it for fun as she loved learning scent discrim. What does everyone use as the seek back article? Should I teach her to retrieve it first and use a new command word - I use take for SD and go for the dumbell.

The other thing I've found with the dumbell lately is that sometimes Daisy has trouble seeing it. If she can't immediately see it, she will put her nose to the ground and once she picks up the scent she runs to it, picks it up and retrieves it perfectly

[ness]

I have a rolled leather seekback article huski. Number 1 rule I was told is always use a start peg. I actually had it suggested I could teach the concept with a soft toy if I really wanted to so what you use as your item doesn't entirely matter.

Basically what I was told to do was have the dog sitting at heel at the start peg and drop the article in front of them. You then heel forward half a dozen steps about turn and halt then send the dog to get the article. You then increase the number of steps you heel forward from the start peg always dropping it front of the dog. Then you heel forward and add a left turn or a right turn (basically you do it in mirror images - so if you do a left turn then next time you might do the reserve with a right turn). You then build up the number of steps before or after the turn and add more turns. If you want to see what a full length seekback pattern is attend some trials and take note of where the article is placed and how many turns.

I was told to build it up quickly. I then progressed to dropping the article behind my back but still at the start peg. Then at some point went to dropping it between the start peg and the first turn. By the time we worked through to that point we didn't have to many hassles taking it to the way it happens in the ring.

[flyingduster]

for scenting I've heard of the idea of making the wrong ones smell strongly of something not nice (a strong alcohol was used in the example I'm thinking of!) with the one item wanted smelling 'normal'. It was supposed to help the dogs that weren't using their noses and didn't understand that that's what we wanted of them (rather than just retriving "something", we wanted the RIGHT 'something'!) it made it very black and white from the dogs perspective that there was OBVIOUSLY two different smells there, and it was the one smell you wanted back...

Now I've never taught scent (yet) so I don't know how succesful this would be, but it sounds like it'd make sense really, especially when they're not 'getting' the smell thing...? I don't think it'd matter too much what the pugnant smell was, but you'd want it something rather strong and unpleasent to the dog. Perfume or something springs to mind too, something that really stinks and the dogs avoid!

I dont think I will do this, we are taught in tracking that even if you use car air fresheners it can put your dog off smelling properly for days so I can just imagine what the alcohol would do to their nose.

I don't know much but I too wouldn't use this method, as I'd be worried about trying to fade the scent on all the other ones. How will they go from others being strongly scented to no scent. Seems like there would be an extra step in the training process doing it this way Happy to be proved wrong as my experience with dog training is fairly limited!!

Fair enough, like I said I've never trained scent myself yet so I don't know what works and what wouldn't! I can understand not wanting to use something like alcohol, but I wonder if there's something less pungent that could still be used to help make it more black & white about the scent for him??? He's obviously not using his nose to find the right one, he's just retrieving an item?? Or work on getting him seeking out one cloth if it's hidden, so he uses his nose to find it? Hmm, dunno!

[RubyStar]

for scenting I've heard of the idea of making the wrong ones smell strongly of something not nice (a strong alcohol was used in the example I'm thinking of!) with the one item wanted smelling 'normal'. It was supposed to help the dogs that weren't using their noses and didn't understand that that's what we wanted of them (rather than just retriving "something", we wanted the RIGHT 'something'!) it made it very black and white from the dogs perspective that there was OBVIOUSLY two different smells there, and it was the one smell you wanted back...

Now I've never taught scent (yet) so I don't know how succesful this would be, but it sounds like it'd make sense really, especially when they're not 'getting' the smell thing...? I don't think it'd matter too much what the pugnant smell was, but you'd want it something rather strong and unpleasent to the dog. Perfume or something springs to mind too, something that really stinks and the dogs avoid!

I dont think I will do this, we are taught in tracking that even if you use car air fresheners it can put your dog off smelling properly for days so I can just imagine what the alcohol would do to their nose.

I don't know much but I too wouldn't use this method, as I'd be worried about trying to fade the scent on all the other ones. How will they go from others being strongly scented to no scent. Seems like there would be an extra step in the training process doing it this way Happy to be proved wrong as my experience with dog training is fairly limited!!

Fair enough, like I said I've never trained scent myself yet so I don't know what works and what wouldn't! I can understand not wanting to use something like alcohol, but I wonder if there's something less pungent that could still be used to help make it more black & white about the scent for him??? He's obviously not using his nose to find the right one, he's just retrieving an item?? Or work on getting him seeking out one cloth if it's hidden, so he uses his nose to find it? Hmm, dunno!

I'd be inclined to scent the one they are looking for with something tasty if they are having trouble, and gradually fade it once they are catching on.

What worked with Millie, was I placed a scented article under a magazine on the floor, and a magazine with nothing under it, and sent her to get it. Because it was under one of the magazines, I found she would sniff it out. Then I added an unscented one under the other magazine (mixed it up which mag had which article) and she was still sniffing it out. It looked like she cottoned on right away, so to test her, I removed the magazines and she was still getting the right one. I added more unscented articles and she continued to sniff them and bring back the right one. I didn't have luck like this with Ruby, she wasn't a sniffer like Millie.

I rarely practice scent so neither are far from reliable But they do understand the game, so I am sure if I practiced more often they'd be more reliable! They both have a lot of trouble picking the metal up off the floor, though.

Edited June 10, 2010 by RubyStar

[Seita]

I think poor Ella needs a new handler! I went out to do a quick seek back session with her this morning, I sent her to find it and she searched and searched and searched and searched. I thought I'd just let her go as long as she could to see what would happen if she couldn't find it in a trial. She ran over the spot where I dropped it several times and just didn't seem to indicate it, so here I am thinking that she was just clueless, after several very long minutes she finally stopped in front of me as if to say it's not here mum... so I walked around looking for it with her seeking for it and we couldn't find it, on a whim I thought I'd check my boot, and sure enough the blasted thing fell down my boot when I dropped it, no wonder the poor girl couldn't find it!!! I felt sooo bad for her cos she tried sooo hard to find it! I did another short one after that and made sure it was on the ground and she had no trouble finding it! I'll bet if I tried to drop the thing down my boot I wouldn't have a hope!

Sorry Seita, but that's bloody hilarious Poor dog

I had an interesting time with our baby seek back - next door's property is vacant (owners live interstate) so I used some fresh ground to see how we were progressing. Ziggy was a bit confused at first (the whole generalisation thing) but soon got the idea. Then I decided to take the article on our forrest walk as he has been offering some really nice enthusiastic heel work after doing zoomies - clearly chasing a biscuit to warm his empty tummy The first time I tried the baby seek back he looked at me like I had gone mad and just offered me more heel position but yesterday I tried once more and his eyes lit up. He absolutely BOLTED back from whence we came and clearly over shot the mark but then put his nose to the ground and headed straight back towards me and found the article. No pi$$ing this time The track was very wet and muddy and there were great smells, sticks and all sorts of loverly things on the ground.

Sooooo, I'm interested in opinions - has he "got it"???? The thing is, he BOLTS in that first few metres (I can't think of any other way to describe it - he sprints like agility!) rather than sedately putting his nose to the ground from the beginning like I see the trialling dogs do. I don't want to impact on his enthusiasm in the slightest (and it's bloody funny to boot) but not sure he is doing it "right"??? Thanks

I thought it was funny too but felt sorry for Ella!!

Ella still bolts back to the start peg when I send her for a seek back before she puts her nose to the ground. SHe tends to air scent and look at the same time as bolting so if she spots it or get s whiff of it she grabs it immediately, but that's not something I taught, she started doing that on her own!

In answer to your question Huski, I use a leather strip which is pretty much identical to my scent articles... I keep meaning to buy a nicer one like the stiched or rolled ones I see some people use but still haven't got around to it! I know someone who uses a peice of stiff rope and as far as I know you can use a peice of wood or metal like your scent articles if you wanted to.

Well we're going to go out and do a proper ring run out tonight so see how we're doing before making a decision about entering our first UD trial... should be interesting!

[huski]

Thanks so much for all the tips guys! I thought I'd seen people using a glove for the seekback but maybe it was something else??

ETA: good luck with the full run out tonight Nic, can't wait to hear how you go!

Edited June 10, 2010 by huski

[Seita]

Thanks so much for all the tips guys! I thought I'd seen people using a glove for the seekback but maybe it was something else??

ETA: good luck with the full run out tonight Nic, can't wait to hear how you go!

They use gloves for the directed retrieve... the seek back article can't be any bigger than a scent discrimination article and (I think) it can't be white

Thanks! I'm a bit nervous but I need to practice with being told what to do etc so I don't stuff it in the ring when I'm in there for real!

[Tassie]

Thanks so much for all the tips guys! I thought I'd seen people using a glove for the seekback but maybe it was something else??

ETA: good luck with the full run out tonight Nic, can't wait to hear how you go!

They use gloves for the directed retrieve... the seek back article can't be any bigger than a scent discrimination article and (I think) it can't be white

Thanks! I'm a bit nervous but I need to practice with being told what to do etc so I don't stuff it in the ring when I'm in there for real!

Just remember not to speak during the signal exercise - or if you're going to (and I think everyone does it at least once ) do it in a run out, rather than a trial. Good luck.

[Seita]

Back from my run out! I was really really pleased with how she went! We had a few green dog issues like her presenting her seekback article to the judge instead of me and running to the box of articles outside the ring instead of the glove I was sending her too but overall really nice work and I'm feeling a lot more confident about doing her debut next weekend! And she had no trouble finding the seekback which was my biggest worry despite the judge having us facing away from the start peg (back to it) completely which I'd never done with her before! *YAY!*

[FHRP]

Great stuff Seita!! Sounds like she's ready for the real thing

Tassie, yep I've done it. Thankfully it was during a judges exam and not a real trial!

[ness]

I did the speaking in signals at the Adelaide Royal off the start peg last year but the judge didn't hear me so I got away with it . Not that it mattered we weren't on a pass anyway but we did pass signals .

Edited June 10, 2010 by ness

[Tiggy]

It was freezing at training tonight . I loved Sophie's attitude she was so enthusiastic . Banjo yodels in the crate while I train Sophie and the Instructor said he sounds like a turkey .

[bedazzledx2]

:rofl: ;) Please don't do that!!!! You can make the one you want smell a little more obvious if you really want to by smearing a bit of food on it but I would only resort to that if everything else failed. The pots and cans method works well.

for scenting I've heard of the idea of making the wrong ones smell strongly of something not nice (a strong alcohol was used in the example I'm thinking of!) with the one item wanted smelling 'normal'. It was supposed to help the dogs that weren't using their noses and didn't understand that that's what we wanted of them (rather than just retriving "something", we wanted the RIGHT 'something'!) it made it very black and white from the dogs perspective that there was OBVIOUSLY two different smells there, and it was the one smell you wanted back...

Now I've never taught scent (yet) so I don't know how succesful this would be, but it sounds like it'd make sense really, especially when they're not 'getting' the smell thing...? I don't think it'd matter too much what the pugnant smell was, but you'd want it something rather strong and unpleasent to the dog. Perfume or something springs to mind too, something that really stinks and the dogs avoid!

[bedazzledx2]

What colour is your dumbbell Huski? Dogs can have trouble seeing red and orange so if they lose sight of it as it lands or in long grass it can be hard for them to sight. I always use a white dumbbell. If you are using a white or light coloured one then it may be worth getting her eyes checked just to be sure.

Seekback I made my own out of black hose with a wooden dowel glued inside....looks like a metal article only made of black rubber. I lose things so I made up 5 of them and rotate using them so it doesn't matter if I lose one.

Ok question regarding the seek back - I am thinking of training Daisy to do it for fun as she loved learning scent discrim. What does everyone use as the seek back article? Should I teach her to retrieve it first and use a new command word - I use take for SD and go for the dumbell.

The other thing I've found with the dumbell lately is that sometimes Daisy has trouble seeing it. If she can't immediately see it, she will put her nose to the ground and once she picks up the scent she runs to it, picks it up and retrieves it perfectly

[GRLC]

It was freezing at training tonight . I loved Sophie's attitude she was so enthusiastic . Banjo yodels in the crate while I train Sophie and the Instructor said he sounds like a turkey .

theres Nothing quite like a Stafford cry/talk is there ? When i was taking my oldest Stafford to obedience and looking at trialling her in CCD (before the blindness ) she talked the whole way through our training session . we'd be all lined up listening for our instructions and Bebe would be talking away , SFE forget it mum, this is a chance to tell the instructors exactly what ive been thinking sealed with a big kiss and a famous stafford headbutt !