Training Talk Thread

[wuffles]

Thanks for the suggestions guys I will see if I can fix it tomorrow... typical that it happens just when I enter my first trial, when she's never, ever, EVER missed a formal recall before. Unfortunately the training session was bad on two notes - a dog escaped its yard next to the oval and terrorised my poor little girl. She recovered ok but it was definitely not needed.

[ness]

Thats ok wuffles - just ask Kenz what she pulled on the recall at the trial on Saturday night - could have cried - she has never anticipated a finish in her life and she came in sat in front and then finished.

Even when you think they know how to complete an exercise they are still full of surprises.

In answer to your question JulesP - I just treat the box as one big target and shape it. Not sure why you would want to use an additional target.

Edited March 8, 2011 by ness

[JulesP]

The sit at the target is to pass something in my advanced class. The dog has to go to a target and sit at it. The idea is you then put the target in the box. Don't know whether I would choose to teach box work like this but it is what I have to do for class. The whole marking feels blah.

The dog sits/drops/stands perfectly in the PIM, lol. I am just having trouble with my foot work getting it to be smooth. It feels jarring. I am sort of stopping in the sit.

[RallyValley]

I finally roped someone into videoing Toby heeling:

Not the neatest work (at all ) but absolutely chuffed with his enthusiasm. If anyone has any feedback it would be appreciated.

[huski]

His enthusiasm is great!

I have no idea what others would suggest, but if you find him forging a bit because you are throwing the ball ahead of you and he is predicting it try throwing the toy to the side or behind you to keep him guessing where the reward will come from. I found Micha would forge a bit in anticipation if I was using his ball as a reward so I started throwing it behind me or bouncing it on the spot etc to keep him guessing so he wouldn't forge to predict my throw.

[TerraNik]

Yeah I would also change where you're throwing the ball... Forging is a PITA to fix so better to prevent it!

[Ptolomy]

I finally roped someone into videoing Toby heeling:

Not the neatest work (at all ) but absolutely chuffed with his enthusiasm. If anyone has any feedback it would be appreciated.

Wow look how happy he is Rally Valley

As the others have said.....by carrying the ball in your left hand you are encouraging him to forge and to come across your body which will result in crabbing and by throwing the ball forward you are again encouraging him to heel too far forward.

You will see a lot of obedience people (those who reward with a game of tug) heeling with a tug toy tucked down the back of their pants - this is to stop the dog from doing the above.

The advantage of using food is that you can mark and reward when the dog is in heel position rather than encouraging them to break heel and then rewarding.

His line up has improved since I last saw him.

[caffy]

You will see a lot of obedience people (those who reward with a game of tug) heeling with a tug toy tucked down the back of their pants - this is to stop the dog from doing the above.

The advantage of using food is that you can mark and reward when the dog is in heel position rather than encouraging them to break heel and then rewarding.

His line up has improved since I last saw him.

Even with tugging you will need to curb the forging by throwing the tug behind you for awhile...getting him to turn away and back.

Even with food you will probably need to start by throwing food behind you.

[ness]

Agree with what Ptolomy and Caffy said. I was having similar issues but throwing the tug behind and having the dog turn away for the reward helped my problems a lot and we now have a much nicer heel position happening .

ETA. RV here is one of my videos from January when I was starting to work through the forging - its not a perfect demonstration but it might help

Edited March 11, 2011 by ness

[RubyStar]

Tips for a broken recall please? I was practicing a recall at the local oval, Ava was distracted so I said her name. She started to come, so I got up, put her back in the sit, walked away and called Come. She just sat there. Now I can't get her to come at all, she thinks I'm trying to trick her :D

Firstly, grab a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself over the head

What I would do is get a helper and do a restrained recall. The helper must be someone you and the dog trusts and who has good timing. Get them to kneel down and gently hold the dog. With my pup, I had someone just hold her around her chest but I'm not sure how big/strong your dog is??? You can slip your fingers through the collar but it needs to be done at a particular angle so that if the dog pulls away, no fingers get broken!!! Get a toy or similar and run away from the dog all excited and call your dog. As soon as the dog starts to strain against the helper they release the dog, who should come sprinting at you at top speed - reward! It's actually a slightly more complicated exercise than I've described as it requires sensitivity and timing on the part of the helper - enlist an experienced person if you can.

HAHA I know. Bad trainer! Sometimes it sucks having a dog smarter than you

I'll enlist OH to do some restrained recalls tomorrow. I think it is the stay that is throwing her off -- she seems to be ok as long as I don't put her in a stay beforehand.

wuffles, if we are talking formal obedience recalls here, then I had a similar thing happening with Millie not too long ago. I'd leave her in her wait, walk away, turn around, call, and she'd just sit there. Ptolomy, as usual, helped cure the problem. If I remember correctly, she advised starting closer to the dog, and as soon as the dog's butt leaves the ground to come when you call it, click and throw the treat behind you! Rinse and repeat. You're marking the dog getting off it's bum to begin the recall. Once she realises that is the desired behaviour, extend the distance, then ask for her to come all the way.

No need to hit yourself with the newspaper just yet, it happens! You can hit yourself with the newspaper if you called your dog with your recall command when the dog was distracted and was never going to comply. I think I need to keep a newspaper in my training bag as I am guilty of this

Edited March 11, 2011 by RubyStar

[RubyStar]

I finally roped someone into videoing Toby heeling:

Not the neatest work (at all ) but absolutely chuffed with his enthusiasm. If anyone has any feedback it would be appreciated.

Looking good!! His line up and attention at heel position is fantastic

[RallyValley]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! I had a session this evening where I kept the ball in the back of my pants and rewarded by throwing behind, to the side, bouncing up ect and it felt a little better, no idea how it looked though! Hopefully since I have just started doing heelwork I can nip this in the bud. I also should film a session using food, his enthusiasm is less then half.

[Ptolomy]

A little pat on the back to Rally Valley who tonight brought Toby back to training and I could see a HUGE difference.

She knew his limitations and how to handle situations when he wasn't responding and in the end she had him in the middle of the oval with dogs all around and he was paying attention to her and nothing else.

Well done mate Keep up the good work.

[caffy]

A little pat on the back to Rally Valley who tonight brought Toby back to training and I could see a HUGE difference.

She knew his limitations and how to handle situations when he wasn't responding and in the end she had him in the middle of the oval with dogs all around and he was paying attention to her and nothing else.

Well done mate Keep up the good work.

Looked great from where I was standing

[RallyValley]

A little pat on the back to Rally Valley who tonight brought Toby back to training and I could see a HUGE difference.

She knew his limitations and how to handle situations when he wasn't responding and in the end she had him in the middle of the oval with dogs all around and he was paying attention to her and nothing else.

Well done mate Keep up the good work.

Looked great from where I was standing

Thanks guys! I think I woke up with a smile on my face because I was still so pleased how Toby went.

And I was only able to have him like that because of what I learned from watching and listening to expirenced people like both of you! Fingers crossed it wasn't a one off and we have moments just as nice next week.

[Tassie]

A little pat on the back to Rally Valley who tonight brought Toby back to training and I could see a HUGE difference.

She knew his limitations and how to handle situations when he wasn't responding and in the end she had him in the middle of the oval with dogs all around and he was paying attention to her and nothing else.

Well done mate Keep up the good work.

Looked great from where I was standing

Thanks guys! I think I woke up with a smile on my face because I was still so pleased how Toby went.

And I was only able to have him like that because of what I learned from watching and listening to expirenced people like both of you! Fingers crossed it wasn't a one off and we have moments just as nice next week.

Sounds great RV - and you know, it will happen again - partly the influence of the 'gurus' (and you know, it works long distance too ) - but also because you will be more confident, knowing that what he and you have achieved once, you'll be able to achieve again.

[JulesP]

OMG my nerves are worse now then before the trial that I did Before I got nervous from when I entered the trial, now I can't even read the schedules without having to rush to the loo (sorry for the tmi).

[wuffles]

wuffles, if we are talking formal obedience recalls here, then I had a similar thing happening with Millie not too long ago. I'd leave her in her wait, walk away, turn around, call, and she'd just sit there. Ptolomy, as usual, helped cure the problem. If I remember correctly, she advised starting closer to the dog, and as soon as the dog's butt leaves the ground to come when you call it, click and throw the treat behind you! Rinse and repeat. You're marking the dog getting off it's bum to begin the recall. Once she realises that is the desired behaviour, extend the distance, then ask for her to come all the way.

No need to hit yourself with the newspaper just yet, it happens! You can hit yourself with the newspaper if you called your dog with your recall command when the dog was distracted and was never going to comply. I think I need to keep a newspaper in my training bag as I am guilty of this

Sorry RS, I only just saw your response! Yes, we were talking formal recalls and I really do think she thought I was trying to trick her into breaking a stay! Her informal recalls never broke, thankfully. We seem to have fixed the issue now... restrained recalls using BBQ chicken did the trick, as well as competition with my other dog If I was allowed to take him into the ring with us I'd get the speediest work ever...

JulesP: Our first trial is coming up and I am already feeling super nervous! Need to remember to stock up on Rescue Remedy before the day...

[The Spotted Devil]

Can anyone point me to a video of someone doing a really nice hand signal for the flip finish please? I suspect my signal is a bit sloppy.....don't know that I'm helping my dogs much

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Well there was the invisible hand signal that Ness did at the last competition... But there's probably some good ones on her youtube channel.

I think I give mixed signals going by the dog's response (down, roll over, spin a circle, or finish around the back) for a "finish" but for a flip finish, I just slap my thigh on the side I want her.