Training Talk Thread

[Ptolomy]

This weekend is a huge weekend of obedience and agility for us here in WA - so tonight was my last training session

How did it go - yep while we didn't pass all our UDX exercises (and sticking my hand up here to being at fault some of the time) I was extremely happy with what he did so feel positive this week - compared to last week when I knew we wouldn't pass.

So just wondering how many people feel good training sessions the week before usually lead to a good performance and vice versa - crappy training usually indicates a pearshaped performance?

[RallyValley]

Well I can't remember where I got the idea from but I started Toby's heelwork training tonight I had his Cuz ball under my left arm and a clicker in my right hand and stepped off, then if he stepped off with me and with good attention I clicked, I worked up ping ponging up to 4 steps before I called it a night and I alternated between dropping the ball while walking and doing an auto sit then throwing the ball.

The attention was great, I tried with food after I started that thread a few days ago and used about the same rate of reinforcement but he had this compulsion to look down before he stepped off.... not with the Cuz!!!

Edited March 2, 2011 by RallyValley

[Ptolomy]

Ptolomy

Haven't tried clicking and treating for obedience moves at all. It's not done much at our dog club so not sure how well they'd take to it. This week's instructor would have been fine, I think. The scary one would get a bit fierce.

But it's definitely something I could try at the park.

I've been thinking to get something from a musical instrument shop that works like a clicker but sounds better, cos I hate the click noise. It's too loud and head penetrating for me.

You don't have to explain to me about training in SA

YOU can get volume controlled clickers - Caffy has one and it is pathetic click

[Ptolomy]

Well I can't remember where I got the idea from but I started Toby's heelwork training tonight I had his Cuz ball under my left arm and a clicker in my right hand and stepped off, then if he stepped off with me and with good attention I clicked, I worked up ping ponging up to 4 steps before I called it a night and I alternated between dropping the ball while walking and doing an auto sit then throwing the ball.

The attention was great, I tried with food after I started that thread a few days ago and used about the same rate of reinforcement but he had this compulsion to look down before he stepped off.... not with the Cuz!!!

Woo Hoo RallyValley - I say if it works then use it

[JulesP]

Thanks guys. Slowly does it I guess. Think I will work on her being happy about me being behind her as she doesn't seem to like that at all. Got to look at Mum at all times, lol.

Poppy is hilarious about returning. The minute the judge says 'return' she swings her head right around to watch me walk up. Lucky she doesn't move her feet. Having super focused dogs seems to bring its own set of problems.

Edited March 2, 2011 by JulesP

[Ptolomy]

Thanks guys. Slowly does it I guess. Think I will work on her being happy about me being behind her as she doesn't seem to like that at all. Got to look at Mum at all times, lol.

Poppy is hilarious about returning. The minute the judge says 'return' she swings her head right around to watch me walk up. Lucky she doesn't move her feet. Having super focused dogs seems to bring its own set of problems.

I remember now!!!!! Cider is obsessed with her small i-squeak ball and she would do the same as Poppy in that she would turn herself around to watch what i was doing. I started putting the i-squeak down in front of her and telling her to leave it and her eyes would not leave the i-squeak and then as i was walking around her I would click and tell her to "get it". Its all coming back now

[JulesP]

Thanks guys. Slowly does it I guess. Think I will work on her being happy about me being behind her as she doesn't seem to like that at all. Got to look at Mum at all times, lol.

Poppy is hilarious about returning. The minute the judge says 'return' she swings her head right around to watch me walk up. Lucky she doesn't move her feet. Having super focused dogs seems to bring its own set of problems.

I remember now!!!!! Cider is obsessed with her small i-squeak ball and she would do the same as Poppy in that she would turn herself around to watch what i was doing. I started putting the i-squeak down in front of her and telling her to leave it and her eyes would not leave the i-squeak and then as i was walking around her I would click and tell her to "get it". Its all coming back now

I could try that with a jackpot container. Cool. Ta.

[The Spotted Devil]

I like it!

Could you start in a sit first so she learns the rules of the game?

[JulesP]

I like it!

Could you start in a sit first so she learns the rules of the game?

Shouldn't have to as she has a strong wait for food.

[The Spotted Devil]

Very cool! Let us know how it goes please?

[bedazzledx2]

Ditto The i click is a soft pathetic click. I got one free with a book from Karen Prior but I gave it away...the clicker not the book! Have a look here http://www.ozpetshop.com.au/product_info.p...roducts_id/1466

Ptolomy

Haven't tried clicking and treating for obedience moves at all. It's not done much at our dog club so not sure how well they'd take to it. This week's instructor would have been fine, I think. The scary one would get a bit fierce.

But it's definitely something I could try at the park.

I've been thinking to get something from a musical instrument shop that works like a clicker but sounds better, cos I hate the click noise. It's too loud and head penetrating for me.

You don't have to explain to me about training in SA

YOU can get volume controlled clickers - Caffy has one and it is pathetic click

[Tassie]

JulesP, I had the same problem with Rory on SFE - still do to some extent. I did similar to what Ptolomy is suggesting - and spent some time just going one step down his side, then back , then yo-yoing the number of steps down the side I took - and eventually right down the back - I still sometimes go the other way, or go round a couple of times.

I like the suggestion of something on the grouind to focus on.

Now I think about it, I had the same problem on return from the other stays - same fix.

Hmmm - my SFE is still not solid - he's good after a couple of rehearsals - pity the judges won't do that in the ring. And if the 'examiner' is a person he likes, or smiles at him - and it's hard not to smnile at my lil big man - he's inclined to want to move to greet them.

Good luck to everyone in the WC this weekend. And Ptolomy - there's apparently an old saying in the theater - bad rehearsal, good show - not sure if it works for dog training.

[RubyStar]

Ditto The i click is a soft pathetic click. I got one free with a book from Karen Prior but I gave it away...the clicker not the book!

I like my clicker, not too soft, not too loud, and it has a switch thingy on the back so you can adjust the click noise 3 ways. Mine were cheapies from ebay in the UK, cost like $1 each or something. I bought 3 when I first got Ruby 4 years ago, and still have 2 of them! I think the original will be found when mum and dad pack up their house when they move I lose everything but gobsmacked I still have my original clickers

[JulesP]

Very cool! Let us know how it goes please?

Just had a go at the return. Amber didn't focus totally on the food but I didn't expect her too as her triangle of temptation training asks for focus on me when food is around. Also the its your choice game asks for focus off the food. But she had a bit of an eye on it and we had no paw movement. I had to teach her to go to the food too! When I released her the first time she just stayed with me. That turned into a game of sending to the food and she ended up going a distance of about 8 meters so that was pretty cool.

I'll practice during the rest of the week and see if it works at training next Wednesday.

Amber thought it was a pretty good game too!

[Ptolomy]

Its a start JulesP

I have to say doing it this was teaches them a release cue as well which is an added bonus

[Mason_Gibbs]

Ditto The i click is a soft pathetic click. I got one free with a book from Karen Prior but I gave it away...the clicker not the book! Have a look here http://www.ozpetshop.com.au/product_info.p...roducts_id/1466

Ptolomy

Haven't tried clicking and treating for obedience moves at all. It's not done much at our dog club so not sure how well they'd take to it. This week's instructor would have been fine, I think. The scary one would get a bit fierce.

But it's definitely something I could try at the park.

I've been thinking to get something from a musical instrument shop that works like a clicker but sounds better, cos I hate the click noise. It's too loud and head penetrating for me.

You don't have to explain to me about training in SA

YOU can get volume controlled clickers - Caffy has one and it is pathetic click

Yes I dont think Mason can even hear it!!!

[corvus]

Yes, tugging is interesting and it's such a fun thing to do with the dog. I agree that running after the tug (food filled in our case) is probably more important but I do notice that Zig is SUPER focussed and wired if I can get him to tug before we go into the agility ring.

Got a few theories about this from affective neuroscience. My hunch is pushing games might turn out to be a good alternative to tug games. I've started teaching it as a secondary reinforcer with my dogs. It does interesting things to them, particularly cuddly teddy bear Kivi.

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes, tugging is interesting and it's such a fun thing to do with the dog. I agree that running after the tug (food filled in our case) is probably more important but I do notice that Zig is SUPER focussed and wired if I can get him to tug before we go into the agility ring.

Got a few theories about this from affective neuroscience. My hunch is pushing games might turn out to be a good alternative to tug games. I've started teaching it as a secondary reinforcer with my dogs. It does interesting things to them, particularly cuddly teddy bear Kivi.

Hey corvus - thank goodness you have time to read this neuro stuff because I don't have the energy at the moment

Do you mean body contact games where you push the dog around with your hand??? If so, I would never dream of doing that with Zig as he finds it quite aversive (he's an odd fellow but very interesting!) but Em just goes nuts for it. It's something I do before we start obedience training and also might be a good warm up for agility.

[Ptolomy]

Do you mean body contact games where you push the dog around with your hand??? If so, I would never dream of doing that with Zig as he finds it quite aversive (he's an odd fellow but very interesting!) but Em just goes nuts for it. It's something I do before we start obedience training and also might be a good warm up for agility.

I was doing it last night in the UD ring between exercises - pushing Moo away with my leg - and yep he enjoyed the game.

[corvus]

Do you mean body contact games where you push the dog around with your hand??? If so, I would never dream of doing that with Zig as he finds it quite aversive (he's an odd fellow but very interesting!) but Em just goes nuts for it. It's something I do before we start obedience training and also might be a good warm up for agility.

I was doing it last night in the UD ring between exercises - pushing Moo away with my leg - and yep he enjoyed the game.

Yeah, that kind of thing. I think I have a video of playing around teaching Erik to push on YouTube, but if I do it's unlisted. Don't really want the whole world to see my little experiments. ;) He didn't really like it to begin with, but didn't take long to start pushing back. As much as I find the likes of Kevin Behan of Natural Dog Training to be tedious and pseudo-sciencey at best, I think they might be onto something with pushing games. Play isn't really that well understood in general, but it seems to me from the various things I've read that there's a potent "social confidence" kind of feeling from play that promotes a lot of positivity, and in quite different ways to typical reward and anticipation. It's fascinating stuff, and frustrating trying to piece it together from incomplete knowledge.

I think I am a bit gung-ho about what we can teach animals to like. I'm currently kind of teaching my hare to push, too! I didn't really set out to do it, but I thought he needed to learn to accept touch and I found rather than reaching my hand towards him sometimes it's better to let him move into my hand naturally. So I cue a target to give him something he can confidently focus on and then hold out the reward so that he has to move against my other hand to get it. It's surprising how much he will push when he is just SO close to getting his piece of strawberry. For an animal that is so nervous about being touched that even looking like you might want to do it will send him smartly out of range, I'm somewhat amazed at what he'll tolerate with incentive. He's even coming to like some tactile.