sheena Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Welcome to the world of Agility....& a warning.....it is very addictive. I have a mountain of training DVD's (as I said...it is addictive) here is a link to the page on my web site where I have most of them listed...I have added to them since but have not updated :D Recommended viewing What breed of dog are you training ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) If I reset her, she's fine. If I release then try another stay she is usually ok too - but does revert sometimes if I do a few stays. I guess the question I need to ask is....do you think she knows what stay means? I think she used to, but something has happened to lessen her understanding. Maybe I should do some individual exercises to strengthen that? Last night we trained with a group. She did the sit stay no problems. In the down stay, she stood up when I got about 10m away. I released then reset her and she was ok for the full 5 minutes. I could tell she was nervous for the first 30 seconds or so - sniffed the ground a bit and was looking around. After that she settled and even put her head down. We then did a few more quick stays just with a trusted and steady dog, with no problems. I tried short distance as well as long distance but I can't quite work out what her threshold is. Edited June 20, 2012 by wuffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If I reset her, she's fine. If I release then try another stay she is usually ok too - but does revert sometimes if I do a few stays. I guess the question I need to ask is....do you think she knows what stay means? I think she used to, but something has happened to lessen her understanding. Maybe I should do some individual exercises to strengthen that? Last night we trained with a group. She did the sit stay no problems. In the down stay, she stood up when I got about 10m away. I released then reset her and she was ok for the full 5 minutes. I could tell she was nervous for the first 30 seconds or so - sniffed the ground a bit and was looking around. After that she settled and even put her head down. We then did a few more quick stays just with a trusted and steady dog, with no problems. I tried short distance as well as long distance but I can't quite work out what her threshold is. My guess is that she is nervous about staying when with other dogs...she probably feels vulnerable...but you've probably already thought of that. I teach my stays, using their food. I am currently training my girl for her first ever CCD & have been working on this. If I put her in a sit, I don't add "stay" as "sit" should mean, "sit there until you are released", then put the food down away from her & time her with a stop watch. If she drops I just say woops, & go back & gently pull her on the collar to reposition her....I never release her when she breaks as this could be seen as a reward for breaking her sit. I watch her very carefully, for signs of impatience & try & release her before she decides to break...if you know what I mean. She is very good & we are up to 1 minute sits where she will move nothing but her head I also practice it at agility training with all the distractions around her, but I don't ask for a whole minute, cause I don't believe in setting her up to fail. However....I fear it is going to be a different story in the competition with other dogs sitting near her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 It might make it easier if I mention what I think has caused the issue. In practicing stays in a group, other people have raised their voices or told expressed displeasure in their dogs breaking. My girl is so incredibly sensitive to that kind of thing that she is now confused about whether she is doing the right thing. I do not think that she is nervous about the other dogs at all, simply whether she is doing the right or wrong thing and if someone is going to come and yell at her! The only other theory I have is that she has become more nervous in the ring in general - and it may be that at the start of stays she is so worried that she is not really processing my command and what she is meant to be doing... when her brain catches up, she moves... then realises what the exercise actually is and stays the rest of the time :) sheena I release her rather than repositioning straight away because firstly I believe it helps her understanding (that exercise is finished - you didn't get a reward - try again and I will make it a bit easier for you to get it right) and secondly because I could never reposition her using a collar grab - that would be a huge punishment for her and she would most likely shut down. All she wants to do is please, bless her. We didn't have this problem until recently (the last month or so) and have two lovely Open passes up our sleeve - she never had any problems with stays until now. And of course now I am nervous about it which isn't helping ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I dont do a collar grab...when she drops down from a sit, I just gently take the collar in two hands...one on each side & gently raise her back into a sit, repeating my command in a friendly voice. I don't collar grab, as in punishment, just as a gentle guide so she knows what I want. I think I am going to have the same problem as you in the ring, cause she is highly sensitive to "correcting" voices & also the other dogs are going to be nervous. I am going to try, keeping eye contact with her the whole time & keep smiling as if to say "you are such a good girl, dont' take any notice of the others" :laugh: If I don't stay relaxed & looking happy, she will shut down for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 There are a few good foundation DVD's on cleanrun - Moe Stempel (sp?) has one. For my next dog, I'm planning on doing foundations from 8 weeks to about 18 months to 2 years, all without much equipment work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hey guys, just joining into this thread. My little man is now 12 months old and we can start doing some agility training! We had our first lesson last week and he had the most fun I have ever seen him have! So far we have just been working on shadow handling and he has just come off lead for this. Also starting to build confidence with small jumps and learning the 'over' command. I am hoping to compete next year when he is old enough, and it is important to me that we start out the right way for competitive agility. Can anyone recommend some good books that might be helpful with our training? Oh how exciting! Not necessarily a beginning book but if you can get your hands on Alphabet Drills it has a lot of small exercises, some can be set up at home, and they really helped patch up some holes in my training. There is a book called Agility Right From The Start which I have heard people say is good - haven't read it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hey guys, just joining into this thread. My little man is now 12 months old and we can start doing some agility training! We had our first lesson last week and he had the most fun I have ever seen him have! So far we have just been working on shadow handling and he has just come off lead for this. Also starting to build confidence with small jumps and learning the 'over' command. I am hoping to compete next year when he is old enough, and it is important to me that we start out the right way for competitive agility. Can anyone recommend some good books that might be helpful with our training? Good luck, its great fun! :D Only thing is don't you learn to say 'over' for every jump, I got into that habit and it was hard to break.......it makes the dog tune you out eventually and it does throw the dog off as generally we are too slow to issue a command and once you get up to Masters you want to save your breath for running instead of saying 'over' when the dog should be taking the jump regardless :D You will probably fade it out as you are just starting, so I apologise if you know that, but just in case I posted as I wish someone told me off when I first started saying it instead of having retrain myself :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 @ Elise+Hudson - as well as the Moe (yes I can't remember the spelling either - Stemfl maybe)) foundation ones, which I love - my other must have with a beginner dog is Susan Salo's foundation jumping. I love that the grid work helps the dog to learn the job of going over obstacles correctly, with or without handler motion or cues. It is so worth while doing these exercises first, IMHO - as not only is it great for agility (avoiding lots of issues with aving to say 'over' etc. all the time - but also translates beautifully to other disciplines - obedience and Rally. What the dog learns is - if there is a jump in front of you, and I haven't told you anything else, take that jump, in the middle and in either extension or collection depending on the space available and my speed. I think as well as from Clean rRun - both those sets are available in Oz from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 @ tollersowned - sorry - didn't see that before I posted - couldn;t agree more - as you can tell. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I dont do a collar grab...when she drops down from a sit, I just gently take the collar in two hands...one on each side & gently raise her back into a sit, repeating my command in a friendly voice. I don't collar grab, as in punishment, just as a gentle guide so she knows what I want. I think I am going to have the same problem as you in the ring, cause she is highly sensitive to "correcting" voices & also the other dogs are going to be nervous. I am going to try, keeping eye contact with her the whole time & keep smiling as if to say "you are such a good girl, dont' take any notice of the others" :laugh: If I don't stay relaxed & looking happy, she will shut down for sure. A gentle guide is punishment for my girl But they are all different :) Eye contact is all well and good until you get to out of sight stays :laugh: Once I'm out of sight she's generally ok - it's while I'm in sight that I have issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I dont do a collar grab...when she drops down from a sit, I just gently take the collar in two hands...one on each side & gently raise her back into a sit, repeating my command in a friendly voice. I don't collar grab, as in punishment, just as a gentle guide so she knows what I want. I think I am going to have the same problem as you in the ring, cause she is highly sensitive to "correcting" voices & also the other dogs are going to be nervous. I am going to try, keeping eye contact with her the whole time & keep smiling as if to say "you are such a good girl, dont' take any notice of the others" :laugh: If I don't stay relaxed & looking happy, she will shut down for sure. A gentle guide is punishment for my girl But they are all different :) Eye contact is all well and good until you get to out of sight stays :laugh: Once I'm out of sight she's generally ok - it's while I'm in sight that I have issues. We're only giving CCD a try, so wont have to worry about out of sight stays I will be interested to see if you can find a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thanks for the tips on the books, I will get into them! Also very interested in how you guys are advising not to teach 'over' as a command. I too was worried it would become too repetitive and lose some meaning, but my little guy at the moment is so excited with jumping over things, he chooses to jump something if we go past it, and I didn't want that to become a habit. I have never done any agility before and have so much to learn, I am really looking forward to getting some books or dvds. Hudson is an Australian Shepherd, He had SO much fun at training the other day.. I think we are going to have so much fun learning together. I am lucky he is a smart little dude, and I hopefully won't mess him up too much while we learn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wuffles - I am concerned that the dog breaking and then you resetting her and her getting is right and you rewarding has set up a behaviour chain. You have 3 choices - give her a break for a week or two and see if that helps - set her up so she will always be right - so go back to standing right in front and rewarding often - if you leave her and she breaks - pop the lead on and go and put her back in the car for a moment or two (yep very negative - but it clearly tells the dog there was a problem with what happened). I had issues with Soggy's stays and I did 2 things, trained an active stay and also had somebody I really really trusted - go in and reward her at varying intervals - which made her think that the judge may come up at any time and reward her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks Ptolomy - working on your suggestions with my lil big man. We are making headway - training opportunities with other trusted dogs and handlers are somewhat limited in the depths of winter, but we're doing our best. Working on the active stay on our own or with Kirra, to try to make sure he does really understand what 'stay' means in that context - and to keep him focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks for the tips on the books, I will get into them! Also very interested in how you guys are advising not to teach 'over' as a command. I too was worried it would become too repetitive and lose some meaning, but my little guy at the moment is so excited with jumping over things, he chooses to jump something if we go past it, and I didn't want that to become a habit. I have never done any agility before and have so much to learn, I am really looking forward to getting some books or dvds. Hudson is an Australian Shepherd, He had SO much fun at training the other day.. I think we are going to have so much fun learning together. I am lucky he is a smart little dude, and I hopefully won't mess him up too much while we learn! I taught over to give the jump a name & now I probably use it too often, but try to only use it if she has to discriminate between two obstacles. My commands are basically, "out" meaning move away from me & take the obstacle, "here" come towards me & take the obstacle or make a sharp turn towards me, "go" meaning go on ahead of me & take everything in your path, which is good for the run home, & "go round" meaning do a tight wrap around the upright of the jump back towards me. We also teach left & right, but don't use it very often & of course, every obstacle has its on name. We use "up" for the A frame, "walk on" for the dog walk, "tunnel", "over" for the jumps, "see saw" for the wee saw & "go weavers" for the weave poles. My girl works quite well, if I run her & don't say anything, but she is more accurate & faster if I give commands. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 My girl works quite well, if I run her & don't say anything, but she is more accurate & faster if I give commands. :) Interesting, I noticed the complete opposite. I used to say a command for everything and my boy was slow and sometimes unresponsive (I would have tuned me out too! :laugh:) Now I try and run him using very little commands generally only his name, 'here' to change direction and 'go', everything else he does easily by himself by watching my body signals. He is much faster and much more confident in his decisions now, it was a very immediate change in his attitude once I had trained myself out of it :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) My general rule is if I am running next to a jump/ line of jumps I shouldn't have to say anything and she should take them but I do use a verbal Hup to support jumps if I am slowing down or I think she won't naturally take it, or I say go go go and run flat out if I want her to keep going ahead on a line of jumps. Edited June 21, 2012 by amypie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Also very interested in how you guys are advising not to teach 'over' as a command. I too was worried it would become too repetitive and lose some meaning, but my little guy at the moment is so excited with jumping over things, he chooses to jump something if we go past it, and I didn't want that to become a habit. Put him on lead :) He needs to learn to take the jump you want him to take not what he decides he wants to do, if I allowed my dogs to do what they want all they would do would be dog walk, a-frame, tunnel, weaves over and over again :laugh: It will lose meaning, he might start to ignore you and it's the last thing you want in a trial ring when so much is going on, you want him to be listening for whatever command you might say (in case of discrimination) not doing the obstacles in the order he thinks it goes :laugh: I am not saying I am an expert (far from!!) but it's something that makes so much sense now and I can see an improvement in my dog so it worked for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 So.....my training with Em is going really well. When she arrived as an 8 week old puppy the rule was "no dogs on the lounge." That lasted all of 3 days. Definitely not allowed on our bed though. Except when we were camping but that's quite different as she has to sleep near my feet. Unless it's really cold. I've just spent the whole weekend in bed with a rotten cold. The cats had a rotating roster to keep me company of course and Mr TSD tried to maintain order. Em has spent most of the time on my bed. But no snuggling on the pillow was allowed. Well at least not when the cats had claimed it. And it's only because I'm sick mind you. As I say, she's got me very well trained :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now