Training Talk Thread

[RubyStar]

You are getting all formal again RS...just play the game! :D

Well I went out and did some UD training tonight at K9 :D Had a great time

[Tassie]

:D That's what it's all about.

[spoilt lab lives here]

Well I trained yesterday the figure of 8 with treats. He turned into a nuTtso, kept jumping up trying to get the treat out of my hand...Which I ignored and only treated when he was in position and not anticipating the treat. I used my voice a lot too which helped. He is liking this training thing lately now I understand what Im doing better his tail wags the whole time!

I wanted to neaten his recall too. He runs up to me but doesnt sit close enough or straight enough for my liking yet. So thought Id use a treat however he thought he had it all over me and when I said his name he stood up from the sit anticipating the call. So after 4 goes of sit, wait, Call name, stand, put back into a sit repeat he finally got it that he couldnt come until I said COME! I will be doing a similar session this afternoon and will see how he goes. The reason I dont use treats normally is because of his craziness around food! But will see how we go.

[RubyStar]

What do you normally use as a reward? It doesn't always have to be food, it can be anything he finds rewarding (but being a Lab, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say food rewards would be on the top of his wants list!!) Remember that we wouldn't work for free so we can't expect our dogs to, either.

I know what you mean about crazy around food, though. Millie just cannot function if she can see a jackpot or her dinner bowl or her squeaky ball. Her mind is so focused on it that she just can't operate. She works well when she doesn't see food or for mundane treats but I will never stop rewarding her. If I did she would soon tell me to f off! Ruby puts in more effort if she can see her reward but we are working on that ;)

[RubyStar]

:D That's what it's all about.

Only wish the fact that you are getting judged in the ring wouldn't change the fun factor for me!

[Tassie]

Yep - so know what you mean.

[spoilt lab lives here]

What do you normally use as a reward? It doesn't always have to be food, it can be anything he finds rewarding (but being a Lab, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say food rewards would be on the top of his wants list!!) Remember that we wouldn't work for free so we can't expect our dogs to, either.

I know what you mean about crazy around food, though. Millie just cannot function if she can see a jackpot or her dinner bowl or her squeaky ball. Her mind is so focused on it that she just can't operate. She works well when she doesn't see food or for mundane treats but I will never stop rewarding her. If I did she would soon tell me to f off! Ruby puts in more effort if she can see her reward but we are working on that ;)

He gets lots of praise and off lead ball game once the training is over. Food or balls and training is out of the question It was our first session in a long long time ever using food so considering that he worked well. I will continue to reward with food for the next few weeks and see how we go.

[Tassie]

I think if you do it regularly - and in small doses each time - he'll get used to the idea. Just maintain your criteria about not reinforcing mugging you for food - ignore that, and as soon as you can, reward for nice work with focus on you (not the food) - even if it's only one step

Just thinking, another thing you could try (to get him used to working while you have food on you - is something Matry Ray taught us (others do it too). It goes something like - food in left hand, arm extended, you wakl in Big circles - dog is on the outside of the circle focused on food this time. Ignore if he jumps at the food - keep walking, then be ready to reward a step or two with his feet actually on the ground. She does this to get the nice prancy heeling, but it also works for teaching the dog not to mug the food. Mary says to stop (but with feet apart so as not to cue a sit) and deliver the reward to the dog while he's stationary, and then keep going.

Hope that made sense. It's worth a play with - and shouldn't wreck anything else.

[huski]

Thanks Seita and caffy. I do like the "findies" game idea and think that will work best for me at the current time. Your idea sounds great too Seita but I just don't want any heelwork involved or anything that resembles the finished exercise right now (ie. walking a track)

Seita's method doesn't involve any heelwork, but what was the reason for you not wanting to teach her to track? (sorry I only briefly read through the last few pages - lots to catch up on!)

[RubyStar]

He gets lots of praise and off lead ball game once the training is over. Food or balls and training is out of the question

If you're doing a whole bunch of training and then only rewarding at the end, this could be considered lumping. Not only could it be confusing him about what his exact criteria is because you're not marking and rewarding the good bits, but his work ethic may go down if he knows he has to do a whole bunch of stuff without reward before he's ready for that step. As Tassie suggested below, I'd do things in small doses each time and reward in between. Then start again. Only reward what you're happy with. If he's mugging you, he doesn't get rewarded!

I think if you do it regularly - and in small doses each time - he'll get used to the idea. Just maintain your criteria about not reinforcing mugging you for food - ignore that, and as soon as you can, reward for nice work with focus on you (not the food) - even if it's only one step

Just thinking, another thing you could try (to get him used to working while you have food on you - is something Matry Ray taught us (others do it too). It goes something like - food in left hand, arm extended, you wakl in Big circles - dog is on the outside of the circle focused on food this time. Ignore if he jumps at the food - keep walking, then be ready to reward a step or two with his feet actually on the ground. She does this to get the nice prancy heeling, but it also works for teaching the dog not to mug the food. Mary says to stop (but with feet apart so as not to cue a sit) and deliver the reward to the dog while he's stationary, and then keep going.

Hope that made sense. It's worth a play with - and shouldn't wreck anything else.

Ptolomy has done some of this with Strauss. I've tried it with my girls to encourage prancy heelwork, but I gave up as quickly as I started

[spoilt lab lives here]

I think if you do it regularly - and in small doses each time - he'll get used to the idea. Just maintain your criteria about not reinforcing mugging you for food - ignore that, and as soon as you can, reward for nice work with focus on you (not the food) - even if it's only one step

Just thinking, another thing you could try (to get him used to working while you have food on you - is something Matry Ray taught us (others do it too). It goes something like - food in left hand, arm extended, you wakl in Big circles - dog is on the outside of the circle focused on food this time. Ignore if he jumps at the food - keep walking, then be ready to reward a step or two with his feet actually on the ground. She does this to get the nice prancy heeling, but it also works for teaching the dog not to mug the food. Mary says to stop (but with feet apart so as not to cue a sit) and deliver the reward to the dog while he's stationary, and then keep going.

Hope that made sense. It's worth a play with - and shouldn't wreck anything else.

Thanks for that Tassie. I was rewarding him yesterday when he was in position and either looking at my face, not my hand or just in position and looking ahead. As he is a leg follower not a face dog. (Hope that makes sense)

[RubyStar]

Thanks Seita and caffy. I do like the "findies" game idea and think that will work best for me at the current time. Your idea sounds great too Seita but I just don't want any heelwork involved or anything that resembles the finished exercise right now (ie. walking a track)

Seita's method doesn't involve any heelwork, but what was the reason for you not wanting to teach her to track? (sorry I only briefly read through the last few pages - lots to catch up on!)

It's not that I don't want to teach her to track, I do, I just don't want her walking with me (heelwork or not heelwork). If she's walking with me, she might think it's a new level of sloppy heelwork I would accept in this exercise I want to keep it informal. I am not knocking Seita's method, I just want to try some of the other suggestions first as I feel they would fit me better at the current stage

For the record, I am not having trouble teaching a seekback so far, it's definitely clicking for them what I want and I wasn't technically asking for ideas on how to teach it (at this stage ) My original question was just to see if I could muck around with it without doing the heeling part of the exercise without stuffing it up Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend!

[huski]

It's not that I don't want to teach her to track, I do, I just don't want her walking with me (heelwork or not heelwork). If she's walking with me, she might think it's a new level of sloppy heelwork I would accept in this exercise I want to keep it informal. I am not knocking Seita's method, I just want to try some of the other suggestions first as I feel they would fit me better at the current stage

No no that's cool, I didn't think you were, just curious as I thought you might of meant that you didn't want to do it as it involved heelwork as it doesn't. But I get what you were saying now!

For the record, I am not having trouble teaching a seekback so far, it's definitely clicking for them what I want and I wasn't technically asking for ideas on how to teach it (at this stage ) My original question was just to see if I could muck around with it without doing the heeling part of the exercise without stuffing it up Hope that makes sense and doesn't offend!

No, definitely makes sense

I'm going back to basics with SB too (doubt we'll ever get to UD I just like training scent exercises) as I want Daisy to actively track too, will be interesting to see how we go.

[Seita]

Thanks Seita and caffy. I do like the "findies" game idea and think that will work best for me at the current time. Your idea sounds great too Seita but I just don't want any heelwork involved or anything that resembles the finished exercise right now (ie. walking a track)

Seita's method doesn't involve any heelwork, but what was the reason for you not wanting to teach her to track? (sorry I only briefly read through the last few pages - lots to catch up on!)

It's not that I don't want to teach her to track, I do, I just don't want her walking with me (heelwork or not heelwork). If she's walking with me, she might think it's a new level of sloppy heelwork I would accept in this exercise I want to keep it informal. I am not knocking Seita's method, I just want to try some of the other suggestions first as I feel they would fit me better at the current stage

Just thought I'd clarify here, I was suggesting leaving the dog in a stay at the start of the track, then walking it yourself and returning to the dog and then sending the dog so no heeling involved. I haven't done it myself but am seriously considering it as we're having trouble with forward heel work at the moment and I also don't want to encourage less than perfect heeling either.

I'm just trying to decide if I keep trying to get my OC and then retrain this or if I just take her out of competition now and fix everything properly and then head back into competition and finish my OC then. I might decide after this weekends trial performance.

[RubyStar]

Thanks for the explanation, Seita!

[murve]

Oh I think my boy Orlando has phobia of working in the Pavilion at Kcc Park

He will heel ok, 1/2 harted about sits & drops, hates doing stays & jumps the gun on recall

When we work outside on grass he is fine does everything beautifully , stays no probs, recall he waits for the magic word, :D

I think it is the building, we have only just started working in there one night a week, & of course every little noise echoes,

[Tassie]

I think he'll get used to it, murve. Just back off a little, and do little bits and make it hugely rewarding for him - IOW, don't just expect him to work exactly the same inside as he does outside. We've got a small group training insdie down here and it's taken the dogs a little while to get used to being indoors - especially the noise and sound of the db landing

[murve]

The only time we have done anything in the Pavilion is when did Conformation shows

I have been taking it slow & steady with him, he is ok when it is one on one but when the rest of the class is there is when he trembles

We will get there as the old saying goes "Slow & Steady Wins the Race" :laugh:

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement Tassie :D

[Tassie]

:D

[murve]

Oh what a magic training session Orlando & I have just had everything was in place perfect for CCD, now we have to just repeat it all again next weekend for the State Trials :happydance:

I decided to through in a Change of Position (he has done but walked into me before he droped) , Orlando was at least 15mtr away & Whoa Hoa he did it on the spot :happydance2:

I think we will do well in CD when we get there soon