RubyStar Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Which way does everyone do a left about turn? Only ask as with my left about I turn into Jovi and she swings her bum around quickly. I was doing this in class on the weekend and was the only one to do so, an instructor pulled me up and was quite adamant that I should teach her to go around as I would get docked points in the ring as everyone else does go around and I would look out of place doing a turn into the dog left about, I know this isn't true. I said I didn't want to even attempt to train a different way as she was fine doing it the way we did and when not extremely excited does it perfectly so I spin on the spot and barely stop. Has anyone come across this attitude or a judge that marks them down (though this could be because of a crappy turn and not the turn itself)? As long as your dog can do it then the judge can't dock you points for it. And by do it I mean they move their rear end and not their front as they swivel around beside you so that they end up in line with you still after the turn. It can look sloopy if it's not done right and most old fashioned clubs/trainers/triallers don't know/care how to teach rear end awareness so their's always look sloppy which is probably why your instructor pulled you up on it. I know at my obedience club I'm the only one who does a pivot but it's slowly creeping in now that more people are doing DWD and Rally-O. I'm pretty sure the rules say you can do either. From the rules: All turns other than about turns will be of 90 degrees and be sharply executed. Both left and right about-turns will be 180 degrees and may be either sharp U-turns or Handler pivot turns. The Handler must not become stationary during a turn. So they don't have to fully pivot on the spot, a slight u-turn is permitted, as long as it's sharp. Edited May 5, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Interesting I train at what I would consider a pretty traditional club yet dogs are only ever taught a u-turn left about turn (and thats not a recent thing either). When I started training Ness at the same club nearly 11 years ago that is the only left about turn we are taught. I know a few really old people do the handler pivot version but on the whole most seem to do the u-turn. Edited May 5, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 They still teach the handler pivot at my club. I can't say I've heard much about being marked down for a U turn method. I have heard about judges marking down flip finishes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 As long as your dog can do it then the judge can't dock you points for it. And by do it I mean they move their rear end and not their front as they swivel around beside you so that they end up in line with you still after the turn. It can look sloopy if it's not done right and most old fashioned clubs/trainers/triallers don't know/care how to teach rear end awareness so their's always look sloppy which is probably why your instructor pulled you up on it. I know at my obedience club I'm the only one who does a pivot but it's slowly creeping in now that more people are doing DWD and Rally-O. I'm pretty sure the rules say you can do either. Yep, that's how she does it, I've taught her a fair bit of rear end awareness so she can do it without falling over her feet like she used to! Maybe it looked a little sloppy just before he pulled me up, as it was right at the end of class and we had been there awhile? I should show him when she is full of beans and spritely how awesome and effortless it looks! Looks like I am going to be docked a fair bit in the ring Jovi does a flip finish and a u turn left about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Looks like I am going to be docked a fair bit in the ring Jovi does a flip finish and a u turn left about! If one of the judges is around on Sunday, I'll ask them for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hi - A question and cry for help from a relative newbie here. I'm currently attempting to trial with my 5 year old Siberian Husky, Zazu. We have one leg of our CCD from our first trial but have had a few disasters since (anyone at the state trial in Perth last year, or the most recent Bunbury trial may know what I'm talking about!). I am having some distraction issues, so we have stop trialing at the moment and I think we are slowly overcoming them. The other major issue I'm facing is Zazu running off! I watch so enviously at trials with dogs bouncing around close to their owners off lead! I know that a Sibe is a difficult breed to train and trial and I never expect to get to CDX or UD with her but I also don't want 'she's a Sibe' to be an excuse for giving up or avoiding certain exercises. I know we are capable of at least getting our CCD. So terribly frustrating as we did agility on Tuesday and I had this amazing attention going all night with her working off lead for lots of runs - and we had nothing that looked like running off. We both had loads of fun and it was great. But....(why is there always a but!) last night I had her heeling off lead beautifully...then she was one step ahead...then two.... and then she was off....and recall? what's a recall? So....do I stop all off lead work until it is all more solid, and never give her a chance to run? If she runs off do I go and get her and put her in her crate (i.e. 'sin bin' her)? Do I reward super heavily for any off lead work and keep it short and sharp? Any suggestions? (No-one warned me this whole dog training business had this many ups and downs and that it leaves you feeling elated one day and flat the next and was this darn frustrating!!!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Hi Tumbleweed. I don't want to give you the wrong advice because I'm far from experienced, but I would do the following two things you said in your post: If she runs off do I go and get her and put her in her crate (i.e. 'sin bin' her)?Do I reward super heavily for any off lead work and keep it short and sharp? I would also start this in the least distracting environment you can find, with no chance for her to take off. Slowly introduce the distractions, and maybe introduce them onlead. Take her to distracting environments (when she's ready and has proven she can keep her mind on the job in non distracting environments), keep her on lead, and reward heavily for her focusing on you under distraction. Don't worry about the heelwork part yet. Maybe just a couple of steps once she's focused. Perhaps stand around with her sitting at heel, and reward for every time she voluntarily looks at you. Don't ask her for focus and attention, let her offer it to you so it becomes a default behaviour. If you click and treat every time she looks at you, she should start offering it more and think it's a really great idea that she thought of Unfortunately there is no quick and easy fix. I am still trying to achieve this with my Labrador, Ruby. Just takes practice, practice, practice!! She isn't one to just take off for the hell of it, she likes to go off to greet a steward or the judge Edited May 6, 2011 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBailey Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Hi Tumbleweed Have you considered that anything may have changed or is different when a run off occurs. Anything at all it could be tone of voice it could be a distraction you don't notice it could be a ground surface or it could be a combination. So that on their own it is fine but combined you have an issue. (hope that makes sence) I think that you have the right idea to super reward correct behaviour. It depends on your dog if sin bin would work. For my BC we were trying to re-train some flyball and part of it was she HAD to tug at the end of her run (there was a reason but I won't get into it here) anyway if she did it she got another run then if she got that right we played and praised all the way back to the tralier to end the session. IF she got it wrong she was ignored and quietly put away for 10 min or so and then we tried again. She wasn't punished for getting it wrong just ignored and didn't get to play anymore where as when she did get it right we made sure that she knew it. She understood but not all dogs do so be carful not to confuse your dog or cause her to shutdown her learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 As someone who has never trialled a dog in obedience my input is probably not that helpful but if this was my dog I might try this... I would use a 4' leash, then when she is doing great on that and not trying to run off in distracting enviroments use a 6' leash (starting from the easy enviroments and working up) and then use a long line... then maybe start randomally clipping and unclipping the leash slowly increasing the duration of time offleash. What is she running to? Dogs? People? Just around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I am rather proud of myself at the moment, I have managed to upload a video to youtube - I knwo lots of people have done it, but it's my first Anyway it is a small snapshot of a training session with Lewis. He is not working at his best, and I have picked up some things I need to address, but any comment would be appreciated. Oh and I got a bit nervous being filmed so my footwork was a bit all over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Lewis is gorgeous! Nothing for me to comment on, looked fab! Love his about turns Would love to see more of his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Once I get Rommi uploaded we will see how we go. Once we get our bottoms back into regular training hopefully we will have better work and a little more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) I think you have answered a lot of your own questions!!! Firstly teach a reliable recall...first time every time. I don't mean a formal club or trial type recall, I mean the full distraction bit. This will help the bond between you and create instant compliance so your dog never gets self rewarded for nicking off. You will create a conditioned response where the dog will turn and recall before his brain kicks in to think. There are a few methods around but this is the one I used and its free http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html (note that at the end there is talk of using a shock collar for a very few dogs. I don't beleive you will need to go to that extreme and I don't personally think they have any place in obedience trial training) I am training my 6 month old boy who has the attention span of a gnat... he is getting pretty good with the recall..in distracting situations he is on a long line. Heelwork he can give me...hmmm maybe 6 steps now. Thats it and thats all I will ask of him. I try to stop and release before he does so that I rule the game. If he stops giving me attention to have a gander at other dogs etc I will step out of heel position and either walk backwards until he is in nice position and turn and go forward for 3 steps and reward, or wait until he finds heel again. He is just a baby so I'm helping him out a great deal. For an older dog who knows what to do but loses attention I will step out of heel position with a NRM...Ooops! He will then have to work pretty hard to regain MY attention in order to earn a reward. Yes its frustrating but when it all comes together its wonderfull... and then something else goes wrong Hi - A question and cry for help from a relative newbie here.I'm currently attempting to trial with my 5 year old Siberian Husky, Zazu. We have one leg of our CCD from our first trial but have had a few disasters since (anyone at the state trial in Perth last year, or the most recent Bunbury trial may know what I'm talking about!). I am having some distraction issues, so we have stop trialing at the moment and I think we are slowly overcoming them. The other major issue I'm facing is Zazu running off! I watch so enviously at trials with dogs bouncing around close to their owners off lead! I know that a Sibe is a difficult breed to train and trial and I never expect to get to CDX or UD with her but I also don't want 'she's a Sibe' to be an excuse for giving up or avoiding certain exercises. I know we are capable of at least getting our CCD. So terribly frustrating as we did agility on Tuesday and I had this amazing attention going all night with her working off lead for lots of runs - and we had nothing that looked like running off. We both had loads of fun and it was great. But....(why is there always a but!) last night I had her heeling off lead beautifully...then she was one step ahead...then two.... and then she was off....and recall? what's a recall? So....do I stop all off lead work until it is all more solid, and never give her a chance to run? If she runs off do I go and get her and put her in her crate (i.e. 'sin bin' her)? Do I reward super heavily for any off lead work and keep it short and sharp? Any suggestions? (No-one warned me this whole dog training business had this many ups and downs and that it leaves you feeling elated one day and flat the next and was this darn frustrating!!!!!) Edited May 6, 2011 by bedazzledx2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I am rather proud of myself at the moment, I have managed to upload a video to youtube - I knwo lots of people have done it, but it's my first Anyway it is a small snapshot of a training session with Lewis. He is not working at his best, and I have picked up some things I need to address, but any comment would be appreciated. Oh and I got a bit nervous being filmed so my footwork was a bit all over! OMG do you come over to Vic & train my boy you & Lewis puts Ollie & me to shame with our training , I have my footwork down pat but Ollie shows no interest most of the time he is not even interested in food when we train (even at home ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Would love a holiday in Vic Lewis is very food motivated, which we have worked on and encouraged, but he is also toy and especially I-Squeak addicted!! He is very fun to train because of his enthusiasm. Rommi is also great to train but I have to work harder to get and maintain her enthusiasm. She trains to a point, Lewis goes until he drops or you stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 OSoSwift - I think you need to move closer to the City so we can see more of you and you can trial more often - otherwise you need to rent the kids out for the weekend and do a car pool with your friends that came up last weekend - once a month sounds good to me You should be tickled pink firstly with uploading the video and secondly with Lewis's work - very very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Thanks Ptolomy That does sound good - car pooling and/or trialling monthly. I am easing OH back into it Give me a little time and we will be onto it. Would be nice to be closer, do wonder what may have happening if I had of moved in the otehr direction instead of down here! Oh well. When I win lotto I will be able to fly as I hate travelling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Would love a holiday in Vic Lewis is very food motivated, which we have worked on and encouraged, but he is also toy and especially I-Squeak addicted!! He is very fun to train because of his enthusiasm. Rommi is also great to train but I have to work harder to get and maintain her enthusiasm. She trains to a point, Lewis goes until he drops or you stop. OMG I'm starting to think Rommi & Orlando came from the same litter, my boy sounds very much like your girl. He dosen't like toys, I think I may found the button to push with Orlando to get him to train he dose not like it if I pay attention to our Pappy pups as I have been training them tooo Spare bed here if you decided to come east , Lewis & Rommi welcome too ;) Edited May 6, 2011 by murve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murve Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Check this out you will love it Ososwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Whippet zoomies - love it. I LOVE watching Whippet zoomies Rommi is still very motivated and is food and toy motivated she just won't train until she drops and prefers to train every 2nd or third day, where as Lewis will train every day, twice a day. I can't get her video to load it gets half way through then it says it can't upload. If I get it up and happening I will let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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