Training Talk Thread

[J...]

Out of interest do you always throw the food on the ground or do you give it from your hand as well.

And what is the reason to throw the food on the ground??

Just interested as I don't throw the food on the ground as it annoys me when they get a treat or a click and imediately drop their head and look for a treat on the ground.

Ideally you should throw it under their body as they back up as you want them backing up with their head lowered, not up. Otherwise they are pushing off their front end instead of working their rear end. Watch a reining horse back up and they will back with their head lowered.

[OSoSwift]

Out of interest do you always throw the food on the ground or do you give it from your hand as well.

And what is the reason to throw the food on the ground??

Just interested as I don't throw the food on the ground as it annoys me when they get a treat or a click and imediately drop their head and look for a treat on the ground.

Ideally you should throw it under their body as they back up as you want them backing up with their head lowered, not up. Otherwise they are pushing off their front end instead of working their rear end. Watch a reining horse back up and they will back with their head lowered.

Yes that makes sense, thank you. I rarely throw food so it is interesting to find out why others do and now I will go and practice! A good inside exercise when the weather is crap

[Cosmolo]

I didn't realise flip finishes weren't all that popular. Although i guess i just like them because they look pretty!

I was lecturing yesterday and one of the topics was fitting muzzles- i got all the students to choose either luring, shaping or targeting and to have a practice getting the dogs (we used my dogs who have NEVER worn muzzles before) to willingly approach the muzzle. I was so surprised at the results- all of them were great and 2 of them were shoving their noses as far into the muzzle as they could by the end of the session. I have used shaping before with muzzles but never got results that fast, probably because the dogs had to wear them at other times (on walks for safety) before they were totally comfortable or they had prior negative association with them. Its lovely to be able to stand back every now and then and watch your own dogs work with others- very proud moment!!

For those of you who use headcollars often, what do you do to get the dog used to the fitting/ feeling to start with?

Corvus i love your description of Kivi and Erik, they sound like such a fun duo.

[RubyStar]

Out of interest do you always throw the food on the ground or do you give it from your hand as well.

And what is the reason to throw the food on the ground??

Just interested as I don't throw the food on the ground as it annoys me when they get a treat or a click and imediately drop their head and look for a treat on the ground.

Ideally you should throw it under their body as they back up as you want them backing up with their head lowered, not up. Otherwise they are pushing off their front end instead of working their rear end. Watch a reining horse back up and they will back with their head lowered.

Yes that makes sense, thank you. I rarely throw food so it is interesting to find out why others do and now I will go and practice! A good inside exercise when the weather is crap

Do you ever play the 2 food game?

[OSoSwift]

Out of interest do you always throw the food on the ground or do you give it from your hand as well.

And what is the reason to throw the food on the ground??

Just interested as I don't throw the food on the ground as it annoys me when they get a treat or a click and imediately drop their head and look for a treat on the ground.

Ideally you should throw it under their body as they back up as you want them backing up with their head lowered, not up. Otherwise they are pushing off their front end instead of working their rear end. Watch a reining horse back up and they will back with their head lowered.

Yes that makes sense, thank you. I rarely throw food so it is interesting to find out why others do and now I will go and practice! A good inside exercise when the weather is crap

Do you ever play the 2 food game?

Nope don't know what it is

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks ness - would really appreciate it. I practice both with Ziggy but only ever do a regular finish in the ring. Em's style is better suited to a flip finish I think, and she will definitely be doing that in retrieving. I'll be teaching her both regardless. Although, her current idea of "find heel" is Springing into the air, bouncing off my left hip and landing in the perfect heel position....might need to refine that just a little

Bumping this up as I now have an added dilemma!

For retrieving I am now teaching heel on both sides, a retrieve from both sides and thus a flip finish to both sides - Em is finding this to be quite a lark. However, I need to be able to differentiate between a flip finish to the right and a finish around the back ending up in the traditional left side heel position. I am teaching "heel" and "close" but I think a clear hand signal is essential.

[The Spotted Devil]

Another bump, but this time for a quick

of Ziggy and I training for obedience. This session was much more about me getting my footwork right and my shoulders relaxed than anything. I was also pleased with his recall as, after doing one formal drop on recall ever, he has started pre-empting me already!

I was working Zig in shifts with Em (her video is in her retrieving thread) and it is like chalk and cheese I'm getting a little better at switching between 2 very different dogs but it is a work in progress. I switched off the background noise in the video as all you can hear is Em barking in the car in disgust at missing out On the upside, you can also hear Ziggy whining in impatience in Em's video, which is a great sign for him.

[Cosmolo]

Wow- seriously impressed with Ziggy's work in that video Can i ask what your feeding regime is with him? ie, does he get all his food through training or are you able to feed him meals as normal and use extra food/ treats for training? I LOVE his focus.

[The Spotted Devil]

Wow- seriously impressed with Ziggy's work in that video Can i ask what your feeding regime is with him? ie, does he get all his food through training or are you able to feed him meals as normal and use extra food/ treats for training? I LOVE his focus.

Hey, thanks Cos. We are both are a work in progress LOTS of trial and error to be honest. When he was going through the terrible teenager stage (which lasted from about 9 to 18 months) I started feeding all his food to him in training at home plus used great treats outside home. Definitely a little tough love there! I also cottoned on to his love of sniffing and marking so used that as a reward for training - started off with a few seconds focus, reinforce with food and release. He actually needs quite a bit of food to keep in good condition so he now gets 4-5 cups of Artemis dry in a treat ball/puzzle cube or a couple of frozen chicken frames for dinner. I train him with a variety of really good treats outside home in addition to that. The night before a trial (or occasionally before a training session e.g. in warmer weather) I'll just give him 2.5 cups of dry food.

[Cosmolo]

Gosh that is alot of food!! Wish i had his metabolism!! Thanks for sharing, he looks to be a great little worker.

[The Spotted Devil]

Gosh that is alot of food!! Wish i had his metabolism!! Thanks for sharing, he looks to be a great little worker.

I'd dropped him back to 2-3 cups a night but since Em has arrived I've had to up it again!

[Sue & Waldo]

I have been using Shirley Chong's dumbell training with Cindy for the last 2 weeks.

She will not mouth it at all! I am not c/t any contact unless it is the mouth. If I hold off the c/t and wit for her to take it she starts offering other behaviours-sit, drop, stand and then just gets confused.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

Have you done all the initial steps???

Yes-to the letter. She just rarely mouths any toys apart from tugs. She noses kongs etc.

Can you video your next session?

Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

Not sure what happened to the post BUT FINALLY Cindy is moving towards the dumbell and mouthing it. She is not holding it yet but the improvemnet is amazing! Thanks everyone for your advice.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Sue & Cindy

[PAX]

]Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

Hi Sue & Cindy,

I watched your clip a while ago but didn't have time to reply, so here goes.

If you watch your clip you will see your dog interacts with the DB lots of times that you don't mark and reward, IMO she looks unsure as to what is being rewarded.

You should read the steps over and over so your criteria of each step is very clear to you.

You should also lift the DB everytime you mark her interaction with it so she cannot interact with it while you are getting a treat or what ever and not noticing what she does. The DB is not available to be rewarded until you represent it, she should be busting for the opportunitty to bump it again.

You want her to be really excited to see that DB as that could be an opportunity to be rewarded.

Also your reward marker could be quicker...YES not YEEESSSSSSS or use a clicker.

The first time I used this method I had my chair next to the kitchen bench and the treats on the bench. so all I had to worry about was the DB and the clicker.

Remember you should be getting 20 good solid nose bumps out of 20 before you move to the next step. From that clip, I don't think you are at the 20 nose bump step.

Hope that makes sense and helps, you have most probably progressed since you posted that clip.

[Sue & Waldo]

]Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

Hi Sue & Cindy,

I watched your clip a while ago but didn't have time to reply, so here goes.

If you watch your clip you will see your dog interacts with the DB lots of times that you don't mark and reward, IMO she looks unsure as to what is being rewarded.

You should read the steps over and over so your criteria of each step is very clear to you.

You should also lift the DB everytime you mark her interaction with it so she cannot interact with it while you are getting a treat or what ever and not noticing what she does. The DB is not available to be rewarded until you represent it, she should be busting for the opportunitty to bump it again.

You want her to be really excited to see that DB as that could be an opportunity to be rewarded.

Also your reward marker could be quicker...YES not YEEESSSSSSS or use a clicker.

The first time I used this method I had my chair next to the kitchen bench and the treats on the bench. so all I had to worry about was the DB and the clicker.

Remember you should be getting 20 good solid nose bumps out of 20 before you move to the next step. From that clip, I don't think you are at the 20 nose bump step.

Hope that makes sense and helps, you have most probably progressed since you posted that clip.

Thanks for this-finally we have progressed and the handler is getting sorted out. After the above post I got 20 in a row of her moving to the dumbell and mouthing,

[huski]

Go Ziggy!! He is an awesome dog to watch, TSD.

[TerraNik]

Nice video, TSD!

[bedazzledx2]

Glad you've got progress Shaping is awesome but it requires you to be fairly fluid and not to get stuck on any one step. Multiple reps are important but be ready to move on and up the criteria when she is successful at the previous step.

I am shaping the dumbbell with my puppy at the moment but he is very different than my previous dogs...I chose him as the most tenacious in the litter...well thats one word for it!!! We were going great guns and were at the stage of open mouth and reach for it...then close mouth on it....then take off with it!!!! hmmmm not what I had in mind!!! Puppy is now on a lead while we shape the retrieve! He is just at the age of taking off with everything as a wonderful trophy :D

]Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

Hi Sue & Cindy,

I watched your clip a while ago but didn't have time to reply, so here goes.

If you watch your clip you will see your dog interacts with the DB lots of times that you don't mark and reward, IMO she looks unsure as to what is being rewarded.

You should read the steps over and over so your criteria of each step is very clear to you.

You should also lift the DB everytime you mark her interaction with it so she cannot interact with it while you are getting a treat or what ever and not noticing what she does. The DB is not available to be rewarded until you represent it, she should be busting for the opportunitty to bump it again.

You want her to be really excited to see that DB as that could be an opportunity to be rewarded.

Also your reward marker could be quicker...YES not YEEESSSSSSS or use a clicker.

The first time I used this method I had my chair next to the kitchen bench and the treats on the bench. so all I had to worry about was the DB and the clicker.

Remember you should be getting 20 good solid nose bumps out of 20 before you move to the next step. From that clip, I don't think you are at the 20 nose bump step.

Hope that makes sense and helps, you have most probably progressed since you posted that clip.

Thanks for this-finally we have progressed and the handler is getting sorted out. After the above post I got 20 in a row of her moving to the dumbell and mouthing,

[Mason_Gibbs]

Glad you've got progress Shaping is awesome but it requires you to be fairly fluid and not to get stuck on any one step. Multiple reps are important but be ready to move on and up the criteria when she is successful at the previous step.

I am shaping the dumbbell with my puppy at the moment but he is very different than my previous dogs...I chose him as the most tenacious in the litter...well thats one word for it!!! We were going great guns and were at the stage of open mouth and reach for it...then close mouth on it....then take off with it!!!! hmmmm not what I had in mind!!! Puppy is now on a lead while we shape the retrieve! He is just at the age of taking off with everything as a wonderful trophy :D

]Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

Hi Sue & Cindy,

I watched your clip a while ago but didn't have time to reply, so here goes.

If you watch your clip you will see your dog interacts with the DB lots of times that you don't mark and reward, IMO she looks unsure as to what is being rewarded.

You should read the steps over and over so your criteria of each step is very clear to you.

You should also lift the DB everytime you mark her interaction with it so she cannot interact with it while you are getting a treat or what ever and not noticing what she does. The DB is not available to be rewarded until you represent it, she should be busting for the opportunitty to bump it again.

You want her to be really excited to see that DB as that could be an opportunity to be rewarded.

Also your reward marker could be quicker...YES not YEEESSSSSSS or use a clicker.

The first time I used this method I had my chair next to the kitchen bench and the treats on the bench. so all I had to worry about was the DB and the clicker.

Remember you should be getting 20 good solid nose bumps out of 20 before you move to the next step. From that clip, I don't think you are at the 20 nose bump step.

Hope that makes sense and helps, you have most probably progressed since you posted that clip.

Thanks for this-finally we have progressed and the handler is getting sorted out. After the above post I got 20 in a row of her moving to the dumbell and mouthing,

Yes Mason was the same as a pup, anything in mouth = running off with it!!!!

Have not done heaps of training this week as he is unwell atm with allergies plus yesterday was just way way too hot. When we train we are doing obedience mixed in with some retrieving Mas loves the retrieving

[Sue & Waldo]

We were going great guns and were at the stage of open mouth and reach for it...then close mouth on it....then take off with it!!!! hmmmm not what I had in mind!!! Puppy is now on a lead while we shape the retrieve! :D He is just at the age of taking off with everything as a wonderful trophy

Cindy has rarely taken off with anything, even as a puppy so it is a challenge. She still paws things rather than mouths! Has done always. If I give her a squeaky toy she paws it to make it squeak rather than pick it up. Had the vet check her teeth but they are ok so it is just her trait I guess.

perhaps she could soccer the dumbell to me!

I am now moving to the holding stage.

Thanks.

[Sue & Waldo]

Sorry Mason is unwell-hope you are spoiling him!