Training Talk Thread

[Tassie]

Negative points? That is impressive :rolleyes:

Luckily, she thought so . Her dog was really a super little worker, and they were a lovely team - but even the best dogs can have bad days.

[wuffles]

Does anyone have tips about keeping focus in heelwork? I play lots of games, do lots of static work, vary rewards and she loves training in general.

But as soon as I go to the park and try to do some longer patterns she will often lose interest and wander wide or sniff the ground. If I vary the time and rewards she is very good (for example 5 steps, reward, 1 step, reward, 20 steps, reward, 10 steps, reward). I was thinking that I probably need to do up a plan over the next few weeks to build up time, but I'm not sure how to go about it. I know I've probably pushed her too far too soon but have no idea how to fix it :rolleyes:

Sometimes at dog club she will do a whole heel pattern with very few rewards beautifully and other times I've lost her from the start.

[ness]

Wuffles - one good way is to just focus on duration heelwork for a session. So divide Ava's normal meal up into 3 separate jackpot containers. You place a container on the ground and have the dog heel around in a large circle. You pick three numbers before you go out as to when you will reward - so one session might be after 3 steps, 10 steps, and 4 steps. So if the dog is in perfect heel position and paying attention for that number of steps then you release the dog to the reward in the container. Then you repeat for a separate container. Work on this alone for a period of time and gradually build up the duration required. I had it suggested to me that I should build up to 6 min - I am not that dedicated.

That is assuming your dog works for food. You could always substitute a toy in the middle instead and reward with a game if that is what turns your dog on more :rolleyes:.

I would also go so far as to say how do you react when she loses it from the start. What do you do if she drops focus. Do you put her away, use a NRM. Its very easy to fall into the trap of building up a heel pattern with moments of the dog paying attention and then losing it. The most common thing is that people then break out the rewards and start bribing the dog into paying attention. So then the dog learns it works beautifully when the reward is out but the moment it goes they lose focus.

Edited February 10, 2011 by ness

[Natsu chan]

A bit off topic I know but does anyone know if any of the state KC are going to print and bind the new obedience rules? I tried the VCA today and they said that I would have to print it off the ANKC website. This is all well and good but it's far too bulky to stuff in a back pocket or in the trialing bag.

[ness]

NC I am pretty sure they aren't doing printed copies of the new rule book but no idea where I heard that from so it might be unsubstantiated.

[TerraNik]

They said the same thing about Dogs NSW at a club meeting.

[Tassie]

It's a good point though, isn't it? I meant to ask our office today and forgot - will do tomorrow if I remember. Apart from the sheer size of the thing, not all members actually have computers or access to printers.

[wuffles]

Wuffles - one good way is to just focus on duration heelwork for a session. So divide Ava's normal meal up into 3 separate jackpot containers. You place a container on the ground and have the dog heel around in a large circle. You pick three numbers before you go out as to when you will reward - so one session might be after 3 steps, 10 steps, and 4 steps. So if the dog is in perfect heel position and paying attention for that number of steps then you release the dog to the reward in the container. Then you repeat for a separate container. Work on this alone for a period of time and gradually build up the duration required. I had it suggested to me that I should build up to 6 min - I am not that dedicated.

Thanks ness - I thought I would need to do something like this but couldn't quite get my head around how to do it. So thank you, I will try as you have explained it She does do amazing work when she wants to!!

I would also go so far as to say how do you react when she loses it from the start. What do you do if she drops focus. Do you put her away, use a NRM. Its very easy to fall into the trap of building up a heel pattern with moments of the dog paying attention and then losing it. The most common thing is that people then break out the rewards and start bribing the dog into paying attention. So then the dog learns it works beautifully when the reward is out but the moment it goes they lose focus.

I think you're right about this... I need to be more strict and I probably also need to take my crate to the oval when I train. I do usually give a NRM and walk away but often she doesn't care because she's found something good to sniff

[Sue & Waldo]

A bit off topic I know but does anyone know if any of the state KC are going to print and bind the new obedience rules? I tried the VCA today and they said that I would have to print it off the ANKC website. This is all well and good but it's far too bulky to stuff in a back pocket or in the trialing bag.

I printed them out and went to officeworks and had them printed off in booklet form whch turns out OK. You can also print 4 to a page but the print was too small!

[Seita]

Yep - UD is character building. My previous BC Sam once was still sitting onzero going into the group exercises - at least he did put a score on the board then. A friend and her lovely Pem Corgi - normally a great and successful team, actually ended up owing the judge points one day - not only did Shiloh have a really bad day and fail to put any scores on the board, he also peed in the ring - which he never, never did normally.

We have a gentleman up here who competes with a Pomeranian in UD and at our last club trial he ended up leaving the ring owing points!

[MrsD]

;) Yep - UD is character building. My previous BC Sam once was still sitting onzero going into the group exercises - at least he did put a score on the board then. A friend and her lovely Pem Corgi - normally a great and successful team, actually ended up owing the judge points one day - not only did Shiloh have a really bad day and fail to put any scores on the board, he also peed in the ring - which he never, never did normally.

We have a gentleman up here who competes with a Pomeranian in UD and at our last club trial he ended up leaving the ring owing points!

My mate Selby .

[Ptolomy]

;) Yep - UD is character building. My previous BC Sam once was still sitting onzero going into the group exercises - at least he did put a score on the board then. A friend and her lovely Pem Corgi - normally a great and successful team, actually ended up owing the judge points one day - not only did Shiloh have a really bad day and fail to put any scores on the board, he also peed in the ring - which he never, never did normally.

We have a gentleman up here who competes with a Pomeranian in UD and at our last club trial he ended up leaving the ring owing points!

My mate Selby .

I remember them

[Tassie]

- glad to hear it's not just a Tasmanian thing

[Sue & Waldo]

I have been using Shirley Chong's dumbell training with Cindy for the last 2 weeks.

She will not mouth it at all! I am not c/t any contact unless it is the mouth. If I hold off the c/t and wit for her to take it she starts offering other behaviours-sit, drop, stand and then just gets confused.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

Have you done all the initial steps???

Yes-to the letter. She just rarely mouths any toys apart from tugs. She noses kongs etc.

Can you video your next session?

Well finally I have a video. Any help would be greatly appreciated. She is targetting the dumbell with her nose but not taking it. I now only reward when she touches the bar.

[wuffles]

I've only just taught a dumbell retrieve myself so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to give good advice yet She looks like she is trying hard! But from your video I think you are marking the behaviour a tiny bit late... once she has already moved her nose away from the dumbell. I had the same problem once I got to the hold - trying to click while it was still in her mouth rather than when she had already spat it out. Not sure how big a difference it makes but perhaps it would help?

[ness]

Ok just quickly - yep agree with wuffles I think you are marking a little to late. Your almost better being a little early in your timing so when the dog is coming forward to the DB rather than moving away. I would also be putting the DB away/behind your back and re-presenting it each time after you treat. Does that make sense?

Edited February 11, 2011 by ness

[Sue & Waldo]

I've only just taught a dumbell retrieve myself so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to give good advice yet She looks like she is trying hard! But from your video I think you are marking the behaviour a tiny bit late... once she has already moved her nose away from the dumbell. I had the same problem once I got to the hold - trying to click while it was still in her mouth rather than when she had already spat it out. Not sure how big a difference it makes but perhaps it would help?

OK i will try that-thanks

[Sue & Waldo]

Ok just quickly - yep agree with wuffles I think you are marking a little to late. Your almost better being a little early in your timing so when the dog is coming forward to the DB rather than moving away. I would also be putting the DB away/behind your back and re-presenting it each time after you treat. Does that make sense?

Yes that makes sense-I think I need extra hands!

thanks

[ness]

One thing I have done in the past is wedge the DB between my knees so that gives me a free hand. Both of mine are at a height were I can do that and they can still reach it comfortably.

Are you using a wooden or a plastic DB (sorry I did just watch the clip but can't remember). Some dogs are much happier with one type over the other and I know I had to use a wooden DB with my reluctant retriever. She could then later use a plastic DB but had a huge reward history of using the wooden one.

Edited February 11, 2011 by ness

[Staff'n'Toller]

I am trying really hard but I can't keep my mouth shut.

You marked it (reinforcing) and you rewarded it (ultra reinforcing) stop smooshing her upside the head!!!!!! You can see she doesn't actually like it that much because her body language changes.