Training Talk Thread

[ness]

Its not that hard guys so long as you have something the dog is motivated by be it food or toy - I'd hate to have a dog who wasn't keen on either.

[Ptolomy]

I have been trying to instigate play with Strauss but the second he knows I have food - then he is not interested in the least with any toy. I will keep trying with toys as it is too early to throw in the towel yet.

[RubyStar]

Its not that hard guys so long as you have something the dog is motivated by be it food or toy - I'd hate to have a dog who wasn't keen on either.

But that is what Jules is saying, her dog isn't that motivated by either. Very tough indeed!

I am thankful I can use food because I don't think I could use a toy reward as well as food in teaching some behaviours. But I'm also thankful that they will work for toys because when I am teaching things that need several repetitions (like weaving), I would go through so much food!

[RubyStar]

I have been trying to instigate play with Strauss but the second he knows I have food - then he is not interested in the least with any toy. I will keep trying with toys as it is too early to throw in the towel yet.

He's not an i-squeakaholic?? Mine prefer food to toys too, with the exception of the i-squeak! Even when it doesn't squeak anymore ;)

I've just about thrown in the towel with trying to entice Millie to play tug... but to be honest, I didn't even give it that much of a go. I can make do without it and would prefer to spend the time "training" her to play tug, to train something else

[ness]

Hmm Ptolomy so Strauss hasn't hung around Lex enough ;) . You could always send him to me I'll convert him to toys and return him (well I might return him ).

And yes sorry RubyStar you were all talking about food specifically so I wasn't really posting in relation to JulesP's dog but rather that toys can be just as useful as food .

[The Spotted Devil]

I did have a dog that was motivated by neither - I nearly wrung his Spotted Neck during those first 18 months I ended up training him with his dinner. Every single night. The first night he gave me the doggy equivalent of 'the finger' so I said "Oh well" and put his dinner away. End of training. He couldn't believe it ;) The next night he brought his brain to training and left his attitude at home.

ETA: I also use a food filled tug toy for agility and he has gone from a completely disinterested tugging dog to a LOVING IT one although it's still a work in progress.

Edited November 12, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Ptolomy]

There is a belief out there that if you are wanting to do retrieving with your dog that you should not play tug with it.

What are peoples thoughts on this - it is just an old wives tale??

[ness]

In the end its about using what works for an invidual dog so long as you have something. Ness has only ever been trained using food and she does a pretty good job of things most of the time , except this week when you know you have a trial coming up and it all goes seriously pearshaped ;) .

[ness]

Can I ask what the logic is on that Ptolomy? My thought would be why is it at an issue. Presuming your not using the "bird" as a tug toy. Actually even if you were I am not sure it should cause a problem.

You still need to train the dog to hold it with the required pressure and not chew on it the same as you would an obedience dog with a DB or an article. Are you not just training a retrieve and would you not just back chain it the same as you would for anything else.

Obviously mine are a herding breed but I don't find any difference between Kenz who tugs and Ness who I reward a retrieve with food when it comes to retrieving DBs or articles. If anything Ness would mouth the item more than Kenz does whereas Kenz has a much more deliberate grip.

Unless I am using the wrong logic as to why you might not allow a retrieving dog to tug.

Edited November 12, 2010 by ness

[RubyStar]

Hmm Ptolomy so Strauss hasn't hung around Lex enough ;) . You could always send him to me I'll convert him to toys and return him (well I might return him ).

And yes sorry RubyStar you were all talking about food specifically so I wasn't really posting in relation to JulesP's dog but rather that toys can be just as useful as food .

Ah-ha but I did mention I use toys, too, just am thankful they work for both Now I'm just being pedantic

[The Spotted Devil]

There is a belief out there that if you are wanting to do retrieving with your dog that you should not play tug with it.

What are peoples thoughts on this - it is just an old wives tale??

Interesting you say that as I have my first gundog to do retrieving with.

Lablover tells me she always plays tug with her pups - her dogs have lovely soft mouths (I suspect that's one of the arguments against it?)

I absolutely play gentle tug with Emily - teaching her to give at the height of her excitement is a great lesson.

Funnily enough, when she pinches the cat toys - she will hold 2 or 3 in her mouth at once (I was wondering why she was happy to give me one with no argument at first ;)) and she is incredibly gentle with them - barely a drop of spit on them!

ETA: Loving the gundog instinct! In the midst of crazy puppy zoomies, a bird on the wing will bring Emily to a completely serious standstill like nothing else can - it's like she's thinking "I know this is important, but I don't know why!" Just received a book on positive gundog training - not much out there I must say!

Edited November 12, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyStar]

There is a belief out there that if you are wanting to do retrieving with your dog that you should not play tug with it.

What are peoples thoughts on this - it is just an old wives tale??

My thoughts - screw it Ruby likes to tug!

So long as you teach the retrieve starting with the hold and work backwards, they should be able to differentiate between the two exercises . Tug means pull and be crazy, retrieve means hold this thing. I think some retrieving people teach the retrieve first and once that is where they want it, introduce tug (if they need/want it).

I figure any damage I have done by tugging as a pup has already been done, so in my personal case, there is no point revoking the tug when I want to also try retrieving. Though it would help if I actually trained retrieving one of these days or we'll never get there ;)

[RubyStar]

Just received a book on positive gundog training - not much out there I must say!

Oooh ooh what's it called and where do I get a copy? ;)

[The Spotted Devil]

Just received a book on positive gundog training - not much out there I must say!

Oooh ooh what's it called and where do I get a copy? ;)

I bought mine here RS. Note that it is definitely NOT a step by step guide (like The Focused Puppy for example) but runs through concepts and ideas based on traditional methods but using positive and clicker training. Sometimes they will discuss multiple options - some not used by many people but which may have potential. There's chapters on marking, blinds, casting etc.

[ness]

I joined a positive gundog list a few years back - wanted to borrow there brains on retrieving drills for teaching gloves for UD and somebody suggested it ;) .

[RubyStar]

Just received a book on positive gundog training - not much out there I must say!

Oooh ooh what's it called and where do I get a copy? ;)

I bought mine here RS. Note that it is definitely NOT a step by step guide (like The Focused Puppy for example) but runs through concepts and ideas based on traditional methods but using positive and clicker training. Sometimes they will discuss multiple options - some not used by many people but which may have potential. There's chapters on marking, blinds, casting etc.

Thanks! Price is ok, but what is postage like?

[The Spotted Devil]

Just received a book on positive gundog training - not much out there I must say!

Oooh ooh what's it called and where do I get a copy? ;)

I bought mine here RS. Note that it is definitely NOT a step by step guide (like The Focused Puppy for example) but runs through concepts and ideas based on traditional methods but using positive and clicker training. Sometimes they will discuss multiple options - some not used by many people but which may have potential. There's chapters on marking, blinds, casting etc.

Thanks! Price is ok, but what is postage like?

It wasn't too bad - about $11 and I had it within a week.

[ness]

You can also purchase it as an ebook -

http://www.clickertraining.tv/product.html?item=KPDLBKP6DR

[RubyStar]

You can also purchase it as an ebook -

http://www.clickertraining.tv/product.html?item=KPDLBKP6DR

Thanks! Anybody interested in going halfsies? :D :D

[JulesP]

But that is what Jules is saying, her dog isn't that motivated by either. Very tough indeed!

I don't know. She worked for dried tuna tonight. I don't think it is a major problem as I don't really want any more then she is currently giving. It was just interesting that raw meat didn't make her super excited. Maybe because she has it for dinner? I am quite happy not to use it, lol.

I nearly got an I-Squeak today but figured what is the point? Might try with the mesh tug doody I got from Clean Run.

Mega Pet in Ringwood has I-Squeaks btw for I-Squeak nuts!