Training Talk Thread

[ness]

RubyStar so would Kenz - if we could get rid of the SFE we would be set. Hmmm Ness votes for removing articles or signals from UD .

[Tiggy]

Sorry for the dumb question but if a dog still scores a passing score even if it fails one of the stays does it still pass or does it have to pass both stays.

Failing any of the exercises is a fail - which includes the stays. In fact if you get less than 50% of the total for an exercise - that too is a fail. But don't go there - be positive!

Thanks for explaining - it all makes sense now . I wasn't posting this thinking Banjo was going to fail a stay it was just something I've always wondered and I actually didn't know you had to pass all the exercises which probably sounds dumb but I thought as long as you got a total passing score you passed so I'm glad I asked. I'm actually really excited about entering, just have to see if we can pass the SFE and group stays at training and I'll definitely enter.

[ness]

And just to complicate things I managed to pass every single exercise and still run out of points , but that wasn't CCD or Novice not sure if its possible in that class.

[Tiggy]

Good on you for entering Tiggy!

I am at a loss of what to do with Toby. He has been limping on and off the last couple of days (yes I will have the bowen out) but considering he is not even 2 and a half yet and he has had two episodes of lameness that is from his shoulder/elbow I am starting to think the fairest thing to do long-term is give up agility and try and get him into Rally-O (I would love to do obedience with him but that would be a super long term goal because I would be really wary of him in a group stay).

I finally got his front crosses awesome too! (This dog has always had a rear cross but would sometimes stop point blank at a front cross and just stare at me )

Sorry about Toby . I've made the decision I won't be trialling Sophie as she's just not sound anymore .

[RallyValley]

Good on you for entering Tiggy!

I am at a loss of what to do with Toby. He has been limping on and off the last couple of days (yes I will have the bowen out) but considering he is not even 2 and a half yet and he has had two episodes of lameness that is from his shoulder/elbow I am starting to think the fairest thing to do long-term is give up agility and try and get him into Rally-O (I would love to do obedience with him but that would be a super long term goal because I would be really wary of him in a group stay).

I finally got his front crosses awesome too! (This dog has always had a rear cross but would sometimes stop point blank at a front cross and just stare at me )

Sorry about Toby . I've made the decision I won't be trialling Sophie as she's just not sound anymore .

I don't care for me and doing agility but it is so sad that my not even two and a half year old dog is unsound and must be in pain. And as if thats not enough he has allergies too. Oh well pity party is over.

Where is the trial in November? I might be showing on the same day and can watch.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Huski

I've just started training drop on recall.

A couple of techniques have been suggested, though I'm having trouble getting her to drop when I signal instead of coming to within arms reach and then dropping...

First I practice when she's in a stay/wait and sitting, I walk away, turn around, give drop signal, and then signal good dog, and rush back and treat to let her know she's done good.

Instructor has suggested that with the moving drop, - to actually run at her after giving the recall signal and as you give the drop signal, instead of standing there until she drops. So she doesn't have to go as far to be in treat range. Um.

So far that hasn't made much difference.

I'm thinking may be when she's done the drop (too close) - I walk away to the right distance and then say good dog and go back and treat - though not sure how that helps, she needs to drop when I signal. She does it when she's standing still but not when she's moving.

Maybe just upping the standard and intially reducing the distance and "oopsing" instead of "treating" for late drops. Ie a short distance, a drop signal really close to the recall signal, and oops if she doesn't, treat if she does.

I've also seen some Susan Garrett work where she just randomly give the drops signal, and her dogs do it. Though I'm not entirely sure how they got there. Might have to review crate games DVD. There's a whole bunch of stuff we have stuffed. Especially "break". But that's a whole nother thread.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Tiggy]

Good on you for entering Tiggy!

I am at a loss of what to do with Toby. He has been limping on and off the last couple of days (yes I will have the bowen out) but considering he is not even 2 and a half yet and he has had two episodes of lameness that is from his shoulder/elbow I am starting to think the fairest thing to do long-term is give up agility and try and get him into Rally-O (I would love to do obedience with him but that would be a super long term goal because I would be really wary of him in a group stay).

I finally got his front crosses awesome too! (This dog has always had a rear cross but would sometimes stop point blank at a front cross and just stare at me )

Sorry about Toby . I've made the decision I won't be trialling Sophie as she's just not sound anymore .

I don't care for me and doing agility but it is so sad that my not even two and a half year old dog is unsound and must be in pain. And as if thats not enough he has allergies too. Oh well pity party is over.

Where is the trial in November? I might be showing on the same day and can watch.

I feel the same way about Sophie and she's only 4, well nearly 5 but still a young dog. I don't care that I can't trial her, what makes me sad is that she might never be able to run around off leash like she loves again, my boys are plodders , Sophie is a nut she has one speed - full speed, I feel mean on walks that she has to stay on lead atm.

Onto a happy subject the trial is at Canine .

[J...]

Thanks Seita! Gave it another shot tonight and it wasn't bad as I thought it would be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxhjcbgCYgU

Any comments or tips appreciated Am looking forward to making it HEAPS better!

My thoughts only here plus a few things I've pinched elsewhere.

My dogs get to practise their drops a lot in real life - I have my dogs drop randomly and reward well. It's a default position when walking them on our local rail trail (which has slow vehicle traffic) so they get lots of rewards for dropping, and another one for staying there until I release them.

Darcy's early DORs were really nice but she's starting to anticipate and it's slowed her recall. So now I don't do a DOR coming towards me at all unless I'm in the ring. If I am training it I do a lot of 2 food games and make a big game out of it in as many ways as I can. But most of it was already there before I even started working on the DOR. The value for the drop has to be there first. Can Daisy drop while running beside you at speed? Running towards something rewarding? What about while you're sitting? Laying down? Facing away from her? On voice only? Hand signal only? With you standing on one leg? Standing on your head? (Just joking - but you get the picture )

I remember Gina O'Keefe mentioning that she throws their reward over the dogs head to reward behind them for DOR - helps get their weight on their butt instead of on their forehand, as well as pulling them up nice and quick.

[Tiggy]

Banjo might not be making his debut on the 12th, tried a sit stay today and he drops, I was naughty though and asked for too much, so back to baby steps, finished on a good note though, also have to train the return as he lifts his leg up as I return around him.

[Ptolomy]

Banjo might not be making his debut on the 12th, tried a sit stay today and he drops, I was naughty though and asked for too much, so back to baby steps, finished on a good note though, also have to train the return as he lifts his leg up as I return around him.

Tiggy try not to do a down stay straight after a sit stay work them at separate times for a while. Its still an issue with Soggy so last night as soon as we started training we did a down stay and sit stays were the last thing on the nights agenda.

I have issues with Soggy getting up as I return to her in a down stay

[ness]

Hmmm why is it that my dog has a much better sit stay if I am not standing there watching her. Just took her outside in the yard at lunchtime and got a rock solid sit while I was walking out of sight and doing other things - if I stand there and watch her she is more likely to lay down .

Feel your pain with Soggy and returning around behind Ptolomy.

Hey stay question for everybody do you start working both sits and drops at the same time or do you build duration for one before introducing the other.

And second question what sort of duration would you build in both a sit and a drop.

[Tiggy]

Banjo might not be making his debut on the 12th, tried a sit stay today and he drops, I was naughty though and asked for too much, so back to baby steps, finished on a good note though, also have to train the return as he lifts his leg up as I return around him.

Tiggy try not to do a down stay straight after a sit stay work them at separate times for a while. Its still an issue with Soggy so last night as soon as we started training we did a down stay and sit stays were the last thing on the nights agenda.

I have issues with Soggy getting up as I return to her in a down stay

I only did the sit stay today and when we go to training I'll pick one to do as a group stay so he doesn't start to anticipate after the sit comes the drop. I mentioned ages ago that he can be very vocal in his stays, he actually wasn't too bad today, had a bit of a whine but then when I made it easier for him he was quiet.

[sas]

Banjo might not be making his debut on the 12th, tried a sit stay today and he drops, I was naughty though and asked for too much, so back to baby steps, finished on a good note though, also have to train the return as he lifts his leg up as I return around him.

LOL remember the rules are the dog stops performing as soon as you enter a trial.

You still have time, stay calm and patient and don't rush training. The leg lift is minor point deductions.

[sas]

Hmmm why is it that my dog has a much better sit stay if I am not standing there watching her. Just took her outside in the yard at lunchtime and got a rock solid sit while I was walking out of sight and doing other things - if I stand there and watch her she is more likely to lay down .

Feel your pain with Soggy and returning around behind Ptolomy.

Hey stay question for everybody do you start working both sits and drops at the same time or do you build duration for one before introducing the other.

And second question what sort of duration would you build in both a sit and a drop.

We work them at the same time, in theory Stay is stay regardless of position right?

We always just worked up duration bit by bit.

I might be lucky that I have a dog that does stays fine so haven't had to think outside of the box.

Edited October 5, 2010 by sas

[Tiggy]

Banjo might not be making his debut on the 12th, tried a sit stay today and he drops, I was naughty though and asked for too much, so back to baby steps, finished on a good note though, also have to train the return as he lifts his leg up as I return around him.

LOL remember the rules are the dog stops performing as soon as you enter a trial.

You still have time, stay calm and patient and don't rush training. The leg lift is minor point deductions.

The trial is on the 12th of November to, not this month, so might fix it before then. Can't promise I'll stay calm .

[ness]

sas my version of training stays with my older one these days is show up at a trial if we are on a pass we do stays. Seems to be working for me - touch wood . Has been like that for years now so I have kind of forgotton what its like to actually train and practice stays.

[RubyStar]

We work them at the same time, in theory Stay is stay regardless of position right?

And that is the problem with a lot of dogs. They think I'm not breaking my stay if I lie down, I'm still staying!

My next dog I think I will teach maintaining a position, not maintaining a stay. Much like ness is doing with Kenzie, if she says sit, it means sit there until released. Not sure how I'll go with that though, hard to break old habits using stay commands I have done a bit with Ruby already, and she is getting the idea.

[Tiggy]

We work them at the same time, in theory Stay is stay regardless of position right?

And that is the problem with a lot of dogs. They think I'm not breaking my stay if I lie down, I'm still staying!

My next dog I think I will teach maintaining a position, not maintaining a stay. Much like ness is doing with Kenzie, if she says sit, it means sit there until released. Not sure how I'll go with that though, hard to break old habits using stay commands I have done a bit with Ruby already, and she is getting the idea.

I like that method to but yep it's hard to break the habit of saying stay .

[ness]

yes RubyStar but that doesn't stop my evil midget from laying down on her sits either - although I gather its a time saving BC thing . If only we could have a 1 min sit stay in front of an agility jump as a novice exercise think she might ace that one. Or a 1 min sit stay while there is a ball thrown way way way out there.

[ness]

Actually the funny thing with the whole sit or drop or stand meaning a default stay I always run into a little difficulty with what I should say as I leave her. Half the time I say nothing why because she has already been given the command to assume the position and in the absence of a command she should continue to hold the same position.

Not sure if there is any benefit to repeating the command or not as I walk away.