Training Talk Thread

[sas]

So being tea total is out then? That might explain my problem then.

Any ideas on how to get a dog to confidently retrieve metals? I've been trying for months and Miss pants will only hold them with her front teeth, the ones in front of the canines. I've tried playing with the articles with her, playing with balls of rolled up foil, food, knurled and plain... but no she just doesn't like them. I can't see us doing UD but I'd still like to find a way to have her retrieving the metals with the same pleasure and bounce as the woods and leathers. I think it's the hardness and sensation against her teeth she doesn't like.

Coat them in something yummy?

[Natsu chan]

Tried that too sas, I even went so far as to smear them in liver pate which Miss Pants thinks is mana from heaven. She just did what she usually does then took a few crafty licks after I'd taken it from her. I persisted until the jar ran out but we didn't get any improvement and I'm all out of ideas now.

[kathq]

So being tea total is out then? That might explain my problem then.

Any ideas on how to get a dog to confidently retrieve metals? I've been trying for months and Miss pants will only hold them with her front teeth, the ones in front of the canines. I've tried playing with the articles with her, playing with balls of rolled up foil, food, knurled and plain... but no she just doesn't like them. I can't see us doing UD but I'd still like to find a way to have her retrieving the metals with the same pleasure and bounce as the woods and leathers. I think it's the hardness and sensation against her teeth she doesn't like.

I started metals with a tea spoon at the kitchen table dipped in whatever I was eating. No pressure and not a metal "article" in site. They get used to the feel and taste of metal without any stress or pressure. Even just licking a bit of milk off my breakfast spoon was a major treat. Took it slow and seemed to work even with the bird dog who took 12 months to retrieve a wooden dumbell cause there were no feathers attached. LOL

[Tassie]

Hey guys.. just thought I'd pop in and say that I did end up going to obedience that night (and again last night) and it's been heaps better! I think I had to just be a little bit more strong and politely tell the trainer when I was going to do something different. For example she is wanting our class (of 3!) to do stand stays and I have said that I don't want to do them yet as her sit stays aren't strong still. And Luuka and I are working on 'drop' which is coming on just WONDERFULLY In the last couple of sessions she's started dropping just with the signal, voice command and with me juust bending a little bit at the knee, hardly at all, when before I had to lure her right down to the ground

Quick question, TN (my training guru, I may steal her from Sydney when I go down there and smuggle her back in my car and keep her prisoner here, don't tell her it's a secret plan..) said that judges don't really care if she drops perfectly onto her belly or not. Which is good, because Luuka sorta flops unceremoniously sideways. It's really unattractive The trainer last night said the same thing. So that is fine, but I'm wondering, now that she's getting the basic concept of 'drop', should I be getting her to drop 'properly'? TN gave me an exercise to try with Luuka, get her standing on a table with her front paws at the edge, lure her down between her front legs. It didn't work for me, Luuka just basically made herself into a donut to get the treat and did not even come close to dropping. When I gently gave her a push on her shoulders she just flopped sideways

ANy other ideas?

Fran - I'm assuming what TN is suggesting is the 'fold-back' down from a stand - elbow bend in a bow then bum goes down -gets a nice square and fast drop. When you're luring that, you have to go slowly - use hugh value lickable food, but dog doesn't get the food until at least you get an elbow bend. If dog wriggles away - too bad, so sad, food goes away, dog stands and start again. I quite like to start this one in a corner, so dog can't keep backing

It's one I will quite often shape up - reward approximations if necessary - a little elbow bend, then wait for a bit more, then a bit more, reward elbows flat, then wait the dog out. It's a rare dog who won't go on to give you the full down by that stage IME. This is how I teach the people in my puppy class.

Oh, and good that you're feeling comfortable about doing your own variations in class.

[Ptolomy]

Try putting some tape around the middle of the article several layers eg insulation tape and then gradually remove it.

Tried that too sas, I even went so far as to smear them in liver pate which Miss Pants thinks is mana from heaven. She just did what she usually does then took a few crafty licks after I'd taken it from her. I persisted until the jar ran out but we didn't get any improvement and I'm all out of ideas now.

[J...]

Why is it when you enter your first trial everything starts going pearshaped.

I was determined that this wasn't going to happen this time BUT IT HAS

so do I.......

train every night and try and fix all the broken bits which is a bit like a seam unravelling at the moment

OR

open another bottle of red wine and just watch videos of training rounds when everything was sweet

Get into the red wine I tried fixing stuff before Darcy's first CCD trial and just made it worse.

I have the same dilemna with her retreive at the moment, her fronts are straight but add a dumbell and she's kicking her butt out to the right for some reason and occasionally her entire body. The only thing I can think of is that I carry treats in my right pocket if I need them but why is it only associated with a dumbell? I use a flip finish so it's not like she's heading for heel position either :D

I'm not fixing it before the next trial at the risk of confusing her. I'll cop the points on it, I'm sure I'll lose more for my lack of ring skills

[sas]

Tried that too sas, I even went so far as to smear them in liver pate which Miss Pants thinks is mana from heaven. She just did what she usually does then took a few crafty licks after I'd taken it from her. I persisted until the jar ran out but we didn't get any improvement and I'm all out of ideas now.

She's smart then

[sas]

I have the same dilemna with her retreive at the moment, her fronts are straight but add a dumbell and she's kicking her butt out to the right for some reason and occasionally her entire body. The only thing I can think of is that I carry treats in my right pocket if I need them but why is it only associated with a dumbell? I use a flip finish so it's not like she's heading for heel position either

That's the reason Dante does angled Sits and Drops sometimes - the angle matches where the threats come from.

Perhaps you could try having a container with treats in it on a table and give the Marker word and then go get the treats from the table and that way the treats aren't on you?

[J...]

I have the same dilemna with her retreive at the moment, her fronts are straight but add a dumbell and she's kicking her butt out to the right for some reason and occasionally her entire body. The only thing I can think of is that I carry treats in my right pocket if I need them but why is it only associated with a dumbell? I use a flip finish so it's not like she's heading for heel position either

That's the reason Dante does angled Sits and Drops sometimes - the angle matches where the threats come from.

Perhaps you could try having a container with treats in it on a table and give the Marker word and then go get the treats from the table and that way the treats aren't on you?

That's just it, I rarely do have them on me, only the times where it is totally impractical for me to have them anywhere else (like when I'm out walking and practising everyday recalls). And why does she only do it with a dumbell, when her standard fronts are fine? It's only a recent thing too, probably over the last month?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Jess.

[Ptolomy]

What hand do you take the dumbbell with - do you think this has anything to do with it

[JulesP]

Maybe she feels like she can't see you properly with the dumbell in her mouth? Poppy will sit crooked if the sun is behind me. She comes in straight and then kicks her bum out crooked as she sits. She also sits too far away when she has the dumbell.

[J...]

What hand do you take the dumbbell with - do you think this has anything to do with it

I'm right handed so I used to take it with my right hand but now I use both having being picked up for it by someone (can't remember who).

Maybe she feels like she can't see you properly with the dumbell in her mouth? Poppy will sit crooked if the sun is behind me. She comes in straight and then kicks her bum out crooked as she sits. She also sits too far away when she has the dumbell.

Worth a thought, certainly willing to look at it. Just strange that it was very obvious at her last Open run (still passed but lost points) and it creeps in sometimes but not always in training.

Have a question about hand positions and double signals but will ask later as I need to get going....

[TerraNik]

Hey guys.. just thought I'd pop in and say that I did end up going to obedience that night (and again last night) and it's been heaps better! I think I had to just be a little bit more strong and politely tell the trainer when I was going to do something different. For example she is wanting our class (of 3!) to do stand stays and I have said that I don't want to do them yet as her sit stays aren't strong still. And Luuka and I are working on 'drop' which is coming on just WONDERFULLY ;) In the last couple of sessions she's started dropping just with the signal, voice command and with me juust bending a little bit at the knee, hardly at all, when before I had to lure her right down to the ground

Quick question, TN (my training guru, I may steal her from Sydney when I go down there and smuggle her back in my car and keep her prisoner here, don't tell her it's a secret plan..) said that judges don't really care if she drops perfectly onto her belly or not. Which is good, because Luuka sorta flops unceremoniously sideways. It's really unattractive The trainer last night said the same thing. So that is fine, but I'm wondering, now that she's getting the basic concept of 'drop', should I be getting her to drop 'properly'? TN gave me an exercise to try with Luuka, get her standing on a table with her front paws at the edge, lure her down between her front legs. It didn't work for me, Luuka just basically made herself into a donut to get the treat and did not even come close to dropping. When I gently gave her a push on her shoulders she just flopped sideways

ANy other ideas?

Fran - I'm assuming what TN is suggesting is the 'fold-back' down from a stand

Yep, the fold back or sphinx down.

Have you made any progress, Fran?

I've got a trial on Saturday... But this time I'm trialling TWO dogs on the one day! ;) Am I insane?! We'll find out! ;) Abby is in CCD and Jedi is in Novice. I really hope he gets through this weekend... We will have to break our curse to get there - something always goes wrong on those grounds!

[J...]

Good luck TerraNik - I'm sure you'll be fine on both counts.

Ok hand signals question - does anyone have a close up video of an open run for retrieving and DOR, particularly interested in the hand signals.

We're losing a lot of points in these elements and I don't understand where they are going. I'm wondering if it's double signals which I don't realise I'm doing. Still scored 185 in her last run but Darcy's better than that and given her heeling is scoring quite well I'd really like to tidy this stuff up.

[sas]

I've got a trial on Saturday... But this time I'm trialling TWO dogs on the one day! :D Am I insane?! We'll find out! Abby is in CCD and Jedi is in Novice. I really hope he gets through this weekend... We will have to break our curse to get there - something always goes wrong on those grounds! ;)

I'll see you there, we can freak out together I'm #1 in CCD.

[bedazzledx2]

Here you go... the judge is in the way for the DOR but you can sort of see my signals.

The retrieves are fairly clear

You can see my crappy throws!!!

and I've chucked in the change of position just for fun!

Good luck TerraNik - I'm sure you'll be fine on both counts.

Ok hand signals question - does anyone have a close up video of an open run for retrieving and DOR, particularly interested in the hand signals.

We're losing a lot of points in these elements and I don't understand where they are going. I'm wondering if it's double signals which I don't realise I'm doing. ;) Still scored 185 in her last run but Darcy's better than that and given her heeling is scoring quite well I'd really like to tidy this stuff up.

Edited September 16, 2010 by bedazzledx2

[ness]

Wahoo Brookie video - go Brooklyn ;) .

[TerraNik]

I've got a trial on Saturday... But this time I'm trialling TWO dogs on the one day! :D Am I insane?! We'll find out! Abby is in CCD and Jedi is in Novice. I really hope he gets through this weekend... We will have to break our curse to get there - something always goes wrong on those grounds! ;)

I'll see you there, we can freak out together I'm #1 in CCD.

Yay! Good luck to you! Jedi is #2 in Novice and Abby is #15 (I think) in CCD. So hopefully I'll get to watch you guys in CCD!

[RubyStar]

Here you go... the judge is in the way for the DOR but you can sort of see my signals.

The retrieves are fairly clear

You can see my crappy throws!!!

and I've chucked in the change of position just for fun!

Your signals are lovely and neat!

You're an "over arm" dumbell thrower, I don't see many of those! I'm a real crap throw myself, but got a dumbell throwing tip on Monday night from a fellow Lab owner and it really did improve my throws! I'm still more than capable of throwing some awful ones, but managed to throw quite a few straight ones in a row :D It's all in the flick of the wrist I'm an "under arm" thrower for the dumbell. I might have to get a few practice sessions in before this weekend

P.S. If you're not in the ring when I am this weekend, hopefully you can check out my newly amended signals in DOR and distance control and see if they're any better than the last trial And if not, give me a stern picking on :D

Edited September 16, 2010 by RubyStar

[bedazzledx2]

There are lots of places to lose points in these exercises. Are you sure its only your signals Jess? A run on for the DOR, shifting in the sit wait, crooked front and finish can lose lots :D A fumbled pick up and or fronts and finishes are other places to lose points. Try to be as neat as you can but still be clear to your dog and if possible ask someone to video you...it can be the greatest teacher!!!!

Good luck TerraNik - I'm sure you'll be fine on both counts.

Ok hand signals question - does anyone have a close up video of an open run for retrieving and DOR, particularly interested in the hand signals.

We're losing a lot of points in these elements and I don't understand where they are going. I'm wondering if it's double signals which I don't realise I'm doing. Still scored 185 in her last run but Darcy's better than that and given her heeling is scoring quite well I'd really like to tidy this stuff up.