Training Talk Thread

[RallyValley]

Hey valley, that sounds great! Sounds like you and Toby had a pretty good day - and hey, friends close to a ring are always going to be a distraction . Even my Kirra, who is old and experienced enough to know better, was distracted almost out of the ring by a piece of equipment outside the ring one time over in WA - it was on her arc, and she must have thought it was something she needed to take.

It won't be too long before you and Toby are right there in the brags thread. ;)

It was the first time my parents had come to a trial so I fully expected if he left the ring it would be for them.. but nope I had my dad "record" it only after he was like 'should there have been a picture on the screen?', yep the camera wasn't turned on.

[J...]

How much can I stuff around with a stand in COP in Open? Obviously I can't lay my hands on my dog at all, but can I encourage her to stand straighter without losing points or do I just cop the minor penalty for being crooked?

Darcy's stands have not improved at all despite using left and right hands, different footwork etc. It seems to be an ingrained habit for her to step into me with her butt. It's also difficult working on your own as looking back at her over my shoulder makes her sit I have no idea how to fix it unless I find somewhere to train with full length mirrors, and certainly not before our next trial.

[Tassie]

Hey valley, that sounds great! Sounds like you and Toby had a pretty good day - and hey, friends close to a ring are always going to be a distraction . Even my Kirra, who is old and experienced enough to know better, was distracted almost out of the ring by a piece of equipment outside the ring one time over in WA - it was on her arc, and she must have thought it was something she needed to take.

It won't be too long before you and Toby are right there in the brags thread. ;)

It was the first time my parents had come to a trial so I fully expected if he left the ring it would be for them.. but nope I had my dad "record" it only after he was like 'should there have been a picture on the screen?', yep the camera wasn't turned on.

;) You can't get the help these days!

[bedazzledx2]

He's a Toller isn't he?!!! He'll learn... "Get your head out of the bag!!!" I seem to have heard it a lot over the years!!!!!!

Gosh Strauss is growing fast, Ptolomy - and he looks beautifully put together.

The bush interaction was gorgeous - and I want to know the sequel to the investigation of the bag.

[bedazzledx2]

You can't physically stack her but you can hands off re-adjust, ie if the first stand is crooked you can quickly move her off the stand and do it again. Of course you can't do that ad infinitum so its a good idea to teach her to stand square. The rules are that you take up position with her in the stand, the judge asks you 'are you ready?' at which point you acknowledge and are then under judges orders. If you are not ready say so and quickly re-adjust. I teach that whatever position you are in is how you stay. If for example he stands with one foot back then he must stay in that position until cued to change positions. This is where the steady feet game comes into it.

How much can I stuff around with a stand in COP in Open? Obviously I can't lay my hands on my dog at all, but can I encourage her to stand straighter without losing points or do I just cop the minor penalty for being crooked?

Darcy's stands have not improved at all despite using left and right hands, different footwork etc. It seems to be an ingrained habit for her to step into me with her butt. It's also difficult working on your own as looking back at her over my shoulder makes her sit I have no idea how to fix it unless I find somewhere to train with full length mirrors, and certainly not before our next trial.

[J...]

Thanks bedazzled - I think her rear end just naturally pulls up like that, curled slightly around me even though she moves straight. She's definitely not moving after the fact regardless of how awkwardly she stands (her start line for agility is in a stand - she's rock solid).

Thinking about that - she doesn't do it in agility because she's looking at the obstacle that's in front of her, not me.

I need to get it on video to see what's really going on.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Jess.

[sas]

Hello oh so wise ones.

I'm trying to close the distance when Dante comes in from a recall and sits too far away.

Things I have tried are sitting in a chair and calling him in with food to get him close to me, also standing up with food to try and get him close.

I'm not sure if it's a size thing?

Anyone else use any other methods?

I'm considering putting something on my stomach for him to target but then knowing him he'll just reach forward and touch it.

Edited August 8, 2010 by sas

[huski]

Sas what happens if you try to lure him close to you when you are standing up? Does he stop at a certain point and won't come in closer? What about if you step toward him?

[sas]

Sas what happens if you try to lure him close to you when you are standing up? Does he stop at a certain point and won't come in closer? What about if you step toward him?

That's the first method we choose and he'll stop aabout half a metre away, it's almost like he has a personal bubble that we won't break - he's extremely food motivated so he really wants the food but then gets frustrated when I tell him he's not close enough - like he can't understand how to be closer if that makes sense

I've tried to clicker baby steps but he always comes to that personal bubble distance and that's all I get.

If I step towards him I can stand at his nose, he's not fond of it though but stays put as he knows not to move.

Edited August 9, 2010 by sas

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: I would teach this in two ways Sas.

1. I would teach him the hand touch, so that you can have him complete a nose to hand contact to earn a reward (click). This will help eliviate the problem with his nose.

2. I would teach him to target a piece of white malamine board with his front paws, when he touches it, click > reward. Once he has worked out thats what you want, I would add a verbal cue like "board" or similar.

I would recall him to the board from 3 - 5 m away, have the board laid out on the ground where he would usually stop, verbal cue "board" when he is on his way in click when he hits the board.

I would then move the board closer to you so as he is coming closer each rep and I would place your hand on your tummy level with his nose too. So he is focussing on what pays not what he doesnt like.

Finally I would fade the verbal cue board and then fade the board too...

[sas]

K9: I would teach this in two ways Sas.

1. I would teach him the hand touch, so that you can have him complete a nose to hand contact to earn a reward (click). This will help eliviate the problem with his nose.

2. I would teach him to target a piece of white malamine board with his front paws, when he touches it, click > reward. Once he has worked out thats what you want, I would add a verbal cue like "board" or similar.

I would recall him to the board from 3 - 5 m away, have the board laid out on the ground where he would usually stop, verbal cue "board" when he is on his way in click when he hits the board.

I would then move the board closer to you so as he is coming closer each rep and I would place your hand on your tummy level with his nose too. So he is focussing on what pays not what he doesnt like.

Finally I would fade the verbal cue board and then fade the board too...

Hey Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

He does great hand touches already and will target objects well with his nose and paws. We have done alot of work already on a floor object that he stands on to do 'fronts' and 'pivots'.

SO.....I'll take that object and move it closer to me.....man why didn't I think of that!

[Tiggy]

sas is he actually stopping short or is it that he comes right up to you but then when he sits he's leaving a big gap because he's a big dog if you get what I mean

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Hah! your already there just didnt know it. If he will target an object, you can hang a plastic bright coloured disc of a necklace (string) around your neck, set it at the right height so he can touch it to complete the recall, this is a great way to develop a skill of recalling him to a touching position.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I get my dog to be closer by calling then running away as fast as I can. So we practice like that for a bit and then work up to the face on recalls in the right spot. No treat if not in right spot. But usually I keep backing up and she has to follow me to get the treat. It speeds up how fast she recalls too. We sometimes have a problem with her offering a heel flip? ie putting her butt next to my left leg to get the treat, which is great for most things except obedience competition style recalls.

[sas]

sas is he actually stopping short or is it that he comes right up to you but then when he sits he's leaving a big gap because he's a big dog if you get what I mean

He does roll back on the sit so it does take him further away but he is stopping short as well.

[sas]

K9: Hah! your already there just didnt know it. If he will target an object, you can hang a plastic bright coloured disc of a necklace (string) around your neck, set it at the right height so he can touch it to complete the recall, this is a great way to develop a skill of recalling him to a touching position.

Yeah that's where we were about to head, I'll try the ground target first and see how we go!

[sas]

Example of problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1VGLulzFh0

[ness]

I would almost be tempted to train a new position - label it "front" for example and then back chain but also use the targetting suggestion Steve suggested.

Have you done skip sits where you take a little step back and then have Dante sit again?

Edited August 9, 2010 by ness

[sas]

I would almost be tempted to train a new position - label it "front" for example and then back chain but also use the targetting suggestion Steve suggested.

Have you done skip sits where you take a little step back and then have Dante sit again?

Yep but because he's a big dog that's actually harder said than done I think in the video you can see that size does come into the problem.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: He is sitting where it benefits him, he can see your treat hand there too... The steps I mentioned will work, but I would also be doing something with the reward delivery, you could just be simple and drop treats from your mouth so he needs to be right against you to win...

Or you can start the targetting and also go to remote rewards...