Training Talk Thread

[huski]

Thanks Nik! Do they fall apart easily or are they pretty solid? I don't like using treats that fall apart or crumb like roast chicken can.

Edited July 14, 2010 by huski

[TerraNik]

Thanks Nik! Do they fall apart easily or are they pretty solid? I don't like using treats that fall apart or crumb like roast chicken can.

A little bit, but in big chunks. Think like onion rings. There are a few layers of fish (that is flavoured like crab) and they can come apart. But I've found some brands to be better than others. Otherwise you can buy seafood sticks which don't fall apart.

[huski]

Thanks Nik! Do they fall apart easily or are they pretty solid? I don't like using treats that fall apart or crumb like roast chicken can.

A little bit, but in big chunks. Think like onion rings. There are a few layers of fish (that is flavoured like crab) and they can come apart. But I've found some brands to be better than others. Otherwise you can buy seafood sticks which don't fall apart.

Cool! Will check them out next time I am in Woolies

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

kynan

I've used (wunterlichs garlic) metwurst - chopped into little bits - even worked on Steve too.

Fritz/devon; roast chicken, pot roast bolar blade (beef) chopped into little cubes, and then frozen into single serves or week's worth, roast lamb in tiny cubes.

The pot roast is good because it can be pulled apart, it's easy to chop up but doesn't fall apart.

And I use cubed bits of whole meal bread - usually kept in the same bag as the other stuff.

And my dog has started going mental for kleenex - clean or dirty - she doesn't care. And she likes beef chips (rawhide) but it's not so convenient as a TID reward. However a rigger's glove seems to work well - but that's more like a tug.

Anything soft that can be swallowed easily, chopped into tiny cubes that the dog loves. Stuff that is highly aromatic is good too - hence the metwurst (a bit like german salami for you eastern state people).

I haven't really decided between using food rewards or tug rewards - she likes both depending.

And I draw the line at loading the treat bag with possum poo or sheep poo or dead things from the beach though I know she'd work for any of these - yuk.

[pie]

I posted this in the Agility training thread but it didn't get much response so I'm going to cross post it here because I don't think it's really Agility specific.

Well the wheels seem to be falling off for me and my boy Kyzer , the last few agility trials have been a mess and he hasn't been paying attention / running around jumps / jumping over contacts / running off. I know he can do it, he is consistent and enthusiastic at training, but at trials he is switching off and I want to nip it in the bud now.

I want to work on improving our bond, I'm pretty sure he doesn't really care if he is with me or not, would rather do his own thing, doesn't care much for praise, which I think may be part of the problem.

It has already been suggested that I hand feed him all his meals or his meals come out of my pocket and are given as reward for training.

So I'm after any ideas on how to improve our relationship, also any other suggestions from more experienced people who have had similar issues would be appreciated. He is the first dog I have trained and it's really frustrating me! Even if this isn't the issue here our relationship could do with some work anyway.

Thanks in advance.

[Mas1981]

No suggestions for you Amypie but I hope you come right.

We are having our own little problem here, my friend and I go to the same agility class together, our dogs are sometimes allowed to play together, now when my friends dog sees Mason she runs up to us during the whole of class, sometimes Mason will ignore her but other times he runs off with her for a play.... any suggestions for me anyone?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I have this problem with another dog from dog club. My dog and the other dog get along really well and we do play dates etc.

They're allowed to greet before and after class but not during. And we owners both make an effort to keep them separated. But if my dog doesn't get to do a proper greeting before class (because someone is late), then she will run off in the middle of class and do her greeting. Oops.

The other dog is currently going through a phase of not recalling - especially at class - running off and playing "chase me" is much more fun so it stays on lead 100%, which means the only dog of the pair which can be really naughty is mine. Last couple of classes, she was good. She seems to understand that during class - we do class stuff and we can greet before and after... Now if only I could get her to leave the possum poo alone...

[RubyStar]

I don't have any immediate suggestions, guys, hopefully someone can offer some advice to help!

I had the same problem with Ruby when she was younger, she'd take 1 jump then run off to greet another dog. Sometimes I couldn't even get her to do one jump, she just wanted to bounce from dog to dog. So I took a step back from the exciting offlead world of agility and concentrated on getting some better obedience before heading back. Now we're back, she is focused enough to do what I ask

I would just say don't expect too much of them at this early stage in this exciting environment. Maybe use the agility environment to teach and reinforce some good obedience behaviours onlead? I'm sure the experienced people will have some better advice for ya's!

[bedazzledx2]

I would recommend NILIF (Nothing in life is free) You can modify it to suit your circumstances but essentially you control all the good stuff in his life and he has to look to you for whatever he wants. It can seem restricting but it is not punative and can really help develop the relationship. This is one link....there are many if you Google it http://www.dogguide.net/nilif.php Also Premack is worth looking at. I use this every day....dog wants to go for a walk he must give me 30 seconds of great heelwork or a recall etc.

I agree with his dinner coming from you and you can use both of these training principles to reward with his dinner in bits. I use small plastic containers that you can put in your pocket and divide up his dinner so he gets a couple of jackpots and some of it in small rewards for nice contacts or a good start line stay. I feed my own mix of BARF and find this is the most convenient way to feed and train. On training nights my dogs don't get dinner in a bowl...all from me.

I posted this in the Agility training thread but it didn't get much response so I'm going to cross post it here because I don't think it's really Agility specific.

Well the wheels seem to be falling off for me and my boy Kyzer , the last few agility trials have been a mess and he hasn't been paying attention / running around jumps / jumping over contacts / running off. I know he can do it, he is consistent and enthusiastic at training, but at trials he is switching off and I want to nip it in the bud now.

I want to work on improving our bond, I'm pretty sure he doesn't really care if he is with me or not, would rather do his own thing, doesn't care much for praise, which I think may be part of the problem.

It has already been suggested that I hand feed him all his meals or his meals come out of my pocket and are given as reward for training.

So I'm after any ideas on how to improve our relationship, also any other suggestions from more experienced people who have had similar issues would be appreciated. He is the first dog I have trained and it's really frustrating me! Even if this isn't the issue here our relationship could do with some work anyway.

Thanks in advance.

[RubyStar]

I would like to take this approach with Ruby, she is very ho-hum about some things (bet you can't imagine that from her!) but if I gave all her dinner to her as training treats, she would still stare at me for the rest of the night expecting dinner because if it hasn't come in a bowl, she just doesn't feel like she's been fed and honestly she just can't settle! And I can't handle a dog staring at me and leaping up at every move I make in anticipation of being fed!!

[bedazzledx2]

They do get used to it RubyStar! You just have to be strong!!!! As you know Brookie is hugely food driven and I had this issue for a while but he now knows when we get home after training thats it. He's chilling on the couch right now after training.

I would like to take this approach with Ruby, she is very ho-hum about some things (bet you can't imagine that from her!) but if I gave all her dinner to her as training treats, she would still stare at me for the rest of the night expecting dinner because if it hasn't come in a bowl, she just doesn't feel like she's been fed and honestly she just can't settle! And I can't handle a dog staring at me and leaping up at every move I make in anticipation of being fed!!

[RubyStar]

I'm sure I could make it work for training nights as they do get fed more, but what about other nights when you don't go out to train? Do you ask them for some work and then feed in jackpots? Or do they just get regular meals in a bowl? I guess doing that would kind of defeat the purpose, right?

There is only one time in history I have come home from training and not fed them afterwards. They were soooooooooo naaaaaaaughty, I was furious, so I came home, and literally sent them to bed without dinner! I turned the light out, closed the door, and that was that And yes, I do realise that they would have had no idea why they were being sent to bed early and their tum tums were empty, but you can't argue common sense with me when I am that furious

[pie]

Thanks Bedazzled I already do NILIF a bit, needs to do something for treats, always has to wait to be released for dinner or sometimes I'll call him back to me then send him to his bowl, or do some tricks etc (doesn't do any heelwork stuff) but I think I'll increase it and apply it to more things and see if I see an improvement. Tonight I fed him his dinner a handful at a time (lucky he's only small because it took a while ) and for each handful he had to give me eye contact, took him a bit to get it, he was offering me all sorts of crazy behaviours, targeting and leg kicking and rolling over

[bedazzledx2]

Oooops!!!! Bloody dogs....who'd have em????!!!!! What did they do????

I'm not really strict about it as I don't have motivation issues so yes, I feed them from a bowl on non training nights. They even get takeaway (dog bickies) when we do!

I'm sure I could make it work for training nights as they do get fed more, but what about other nights when you don't go out to train? Do you ask them for some work and then feed in jackpots? Or do they just get regular meals in a bowl? I guess doing that would kind of defeat the purpose, right?

There is only one time in history I have come home from training and not fed them afterwards. They were soooooooooo naaaaaaaughty, I was furious, so I came home, and literally sent them to bed without dinner! I turned the light out, closed the door, and that was that :D And yes, I do realise that they would have had no idea why they were being sent to bed early and their tum tums were empty, but you can't argue common sense with me when I am that furious

[bedazzledx2]

Another thought.... do you break it down in training? Three jumps and a reward, or front cross throw the reward in the direction of travel, start line stay..return and reward? Many clubs tend to put up courses and we all merrily do the course and forget about breaking it down and rewarding the in between bits. Lots of us reward contacts but very often the handling stuff goes by the wayside as we go up in the classes and start trailing. Greg Derrett put it best..."we all turn into crappy trainers when we hit the ring" how true!

I posted this in the Agility training thread but it didn't get much response so I'm going to cross post it here because I don't think it's really Agility specific.

Well the wheels seem to be falling off for me and my boy Kyzer , the last few agility trials have been a mess and he hasn't been paying attention / running around jumps / jumping over contacts / running off. I know he can do it, he is consistent and enthusiastic at training, but at trials he is switching off and I want to nip it in the bud now.

I want to work on improving our bond, I'm pretty sure he doesn't really care if he is with me or not, would rather do his own thing, doesn't care much for praise, which I think may be part of the problem.

It has already been suggested that I hand feed him all his meals or his meals come out of my pocket and are given as reward for training.

So I'm after any ideas on how to improve our relationship, also any other suggestions from more experienced people who have had similar issues would be appreciated. He is the first dog I have trained and it's really frustrating me! Even if this isn't the issue here our relationship could do with some work anyway.

Thanks in advance.

[RubyStar]

Just being little so and so's all night and then when Millie started rampaging through my brand new car on my leather seats, that was it! Trying to control Millie, Ruby jumped out and nearly hung herself on her slip lead. Ptolomy could probably tell you how worked up I was

Erm yes, I do have control over my dogs :D That was just a bad, bad night about a year ago

Thankfully they are better behaved now... but that psycho Millie, I dunno, might have to find her a new home soon (not really )

Oooops!!!! Bloody dogs....who'd have em????!!!!! What did they do????

I'm not really strict about it as I don't have motivation issues so yes, I feed them from a bowl on non training nights. They even get takeaway (dog bickies) when we do!

I'm sure I could make it work for training nights as they do get fed more, but what about other nights when you don't go out to train? Do you ask them for some work and then feed in jackpots? Or do they just get regular meals in a bowl? I guess doing that would kind of defeat the purpose, right?

There is only one time in history I have come home from training and not fed them afterwards. They were soooooooooo naaaaaaaughty, I was furious, so I came home, and literally sent them to bed without dinner! I turned the light out, closed the door, and that was that And yes, I do realise that they would have had no idea why they were being sent to bed early and their tum tums were empty, but you can't argue common sense with me when I am that furious :D

[Ptolomy]

Thankfully they are better behaved now... but that psycho Millie, I dunno, might have to find her a new home soon (not really )

Hmm maybe Millie and Beans both need to go on the rehome list.

Did anybody hear me screaming like a fishwife last night trying to get Beans to come back from chasing ducks through the pond on the bottom oval at K9 and across the car park........

Poor Bedazzled saw just how good our recalls are NOT

[ness]

Ptolomy - sounds like Beans would fit in nicely with me. I had Kenz off the other night at a million miles an hour after a beloved duckie and then I had Ness this morning off at a million miles an hour after the gardner who drove in on a quad bike thingy .

So should I let the postie know I am expecting a red dog in the mail .

Edited July 15, 2010 by ness

[RubyStar]

:p @ Beans I don't believe that little angel face could do such a thing!!

[pie]

'Angel face' :p