Training Talk Thread

[RallyValley]

I dunno about the club tiral Tiggy, I will enter but it really depends on Toby's allergies. (sigh) I won't be at training tonight as he is all doped up.

I will have to start weaves again at some stage with Toby... he can do entrances. :D

[Ptolomy]

Ptolomy, Rory went through that stage too - I tried to time my throw so that it happened just before he looked - I think.l But anyway, he seemed to get out of it as the poles closed up and he actually started weaving. Now his head is down low, and he's concentrating on getting past the last pole - and my throwing abilities are getting better. I'm using the nylon strip tuggy we got in our goody bag at Nationals - or if I don't have that with me, like yesterday, I use his Kong Wubba bear - I can hurl that by the tails, and we can tug on it. Noth are nice and heavy.

BTW, I have to brag - tried him on 12 poles out on the course in the lunch break between agility trials yesterday (with judge's permission :D ). He hadn't seen poles since last Monday when he did 12 beautifully. Yesterday he started off a bit dodgily, but then got right into it. Not super speedy yet, but it's coming. I need to be working on left hand entries - not as solid as right hand yet.

Woo Hoo Rory - how good is that.

and thanks for the encouragement Tassie - you mean I should retire her before she has begun :D

[Ptolomy]

Great work valleyCBR and RubyStar :D - just watched your vids

Geez talk about jumping the gun They haven't even all finished uploading yet, are you stalking my channel :p

About 20 mins left for the last vid. Here are the first 2 Rally-O vids, will edit once last one is ready:

Edit: last vid

Beautful heelwork Rubystar :D

[RubyStar]

Beautful heelwork Rubystar

Thankyou I was very pleased that Ruby maintained enthusiasm with 3 trials in one day, that is quite an ask! Definitely getting to offer some verbal encouragement throughout helped with keeping that head up and tail wagging

Watching those videos back, I noticed heeling around the cones in the two last runs she was anticipating a figure 8 pattern and started to take herself in that direction

[Seita]

It seems my scent discrimination has falled off the wagon at the moment and I'm just after some advice on how best to get it back. What she's been doing for a while now is on the first article she goes out, picks it up then drops it and after that usually picks it up again and brings it back. By the second and third articles she's usually ok and isn't dropping it anymore. Sometimes she drops it more than once. However since the weekend she's been getting worse on all articles. In her first trial on Saturday she picked up and dropped the article about 5 times before bringing it back, she then had no trouble with the next two other than a bit of mouthing. But in the evening trial on Saturday, she picked up and dropped the first article 2 or 3 times and then grabbed the wrong article which she hasn't done in training in a VERY VERY long time. She then did the same thing on the second article. On the third article she picked it up once or twice before bringing it back but didn't grab a wrong article again.

What I had been doing was just ignoring the picking up and putting down of the articles, passing it off as an inexperienced dog and assuming she'd do it less and less as she got more confident. However in my 2 training sessions since Saturday she's gone back to dropping every article multiple times again which to me seems like she's not confident that she's got it right.

So should I go back to less articles and see if she starts bringing them back without dropping them? Or should I tell her she's got it right as soon as she picks the right one up? Or should I just let her keep picking them up and dropping them and hope she gets it out of her system? One judge has told me to tell her she's got it right when she grabs it, another judge has told me to just let her go and that she'll figure it out eventually. I'm undecided, I'm worried that if I start telling her she's got it right when she picks it up she'll then start waiting for me to tell her she's got it right all the time... and on the other hand if I just let her keep going then it'll be stuck and stay with us forever!

Sorry about the longish post!

[kathq]

Beautful heelwork Rubystar

Thankyou I was very pleased that Ruby maintained enthusiasm with 3 trials in one day, that is quite an ask! Definitely getting to offer some verbal encouragement throughout helped with keeping that head up and tail wagging

Watching those videos back, I noticed heeling around the cones in the two last runs she was anticipating a figure 8 pattern and started to take herself in that direction

Things are looking good RS, So you are allowed to talk to them in Rally then?

[caffy]

It seems my scent discrimination has falled off the wagon at the moment and I'm just after some advice on how best to get it back. What she's been doing for a while now is on the first article she goes out, picks it up then drops it and after that usually picks it up again and brings it back. By the second and third articles she's usually ok and isn't dropping it anymore. Sometimes she drops it more than once. However since the weekend she's been getting worse on all articles. In her first trial on Saturday she picked up and dropped the article about 5 times before bringing it back, she then had no trouble with the next two other than a bit of mouthing. But in the evening trial on Saturday, she picked up and dropped the first article 2 or 3 times and then grabbed the wrong article which she hasn't done in training in a VERY VERY long time. She then did the same thing on the second article. On the third article she picked it up once or twice before bringing it back but didn't grab a wrong article again.

What I had been doing was just ignoring the picking up and putting down of the articles, passing it off as an inexperienced dog and assuming she'd do it less and less as she got more confident. However in my 2 training sessions since Saturday she's gone back to dropping every article multiple times again which to me seems like she's not confident that she's got it right.

So should I go back to less articles and see if she starts bringing them back without dropping them? Or should I tell her she's got it right as soon as she picks the right one up? Or should I just let her keep picking them up and dropping them and hope she gets it out of her system? One judge has told me to tell her she's got it right when she grabs it, another judge has told me to just let her go and that she'll figure it out eventually. I'm undecided, I'm worried that if I start telling her she's got it right when she picks it up she'll then start waiting for me to tell her she's got it right all the time... and on the other hand if I just let her keep going then it'll be stuck and stay with us forever!

Sorry about the longish post!

Sounds like a very unconfident dog in SD!!! It happens when you start trialling in UD...as Ptolomy has said, something always goes in UD, you fix it, then something else goes

I would set her up for success to get her confidence back. Do your SD in a very familiar place and have a party when she gets one article correct. I would do that AFTER I've worked on fixing the picking up of the articles. Just work on picking up one leather, one wood and one metal. Pick up, hold confidently with no mouthing. Do the 2 food game or throw the article out, send her and if she grabs it, whip out your tuggy and let her run in and play...don't worry if she drops the article..you have marked the behaviour you want...a firm pick up. Then vary when you pull out your tuggy...straight away for the pickup, 2 steps in after the pick up etc.

Get this going and you'll find she'll get more confident doing SD.

[RubyStar]

Beautful heelwork Rubystar :p

Thankyou I was very pleased that Ruby maintained enthusiasm with 3 trials in one day, that is quite an ask! Definitely getting to offer some verbal encouragement throughout helped with keeping that head up and tail wagging :D

Watching those videos back, I noticed heeling around the cones in the two last runs she was anticipating a figure 8 pattern and started to take herself in that direction

Things are looking good RS, So you are allowed to talk to them in Rally then?

Yep, you can chatter away to them to your heart's content And in Novice level you can even give your dog a pat for encouragement when in there

I have a few minor concerns of Rally possibly affecting "traditional" obedience, but not enough to not take part should it become recognised and they start holding trials here in WA. eg. One of the exercises you have to get your dog to sit, and then down from the sit, which I try to not encourage because I have one of those dogs who lays down in sit stays Another is you have to do both types of left about turns, and after working to eradicate the behind the back one in the ring, all of a sudden I had to reintroduce it. But these are very minor, and it is a lot of fun to do

[Tassie]

@ Ptolomy. Hey, remember that Rory is doubly handicapped - he's a boy and has me for a trainer - which makes him pretty 'speshal' . I reckon your little soggy-bear will be weaving like a dream in no time.

You might find she's more likely to look for the reward when she's doing left hand - right hand, they seem to be able to concentrate on the poles a bit more.

I really can't remember when Rory stopped looking and started really concentrating - and as I said - long way to go yet. It makes me laugh, cos he's like the little red engine - concentrating hard "I think I can, I think I can" and then when he gets to the last 4, it's "I know I can, I know I can" and he explodes out :p .

Still lots of work to go, but it's getting there. I just need time - not only for that, but for tracking training for both of them - specially Kirra who has a Test 7 coming up (where's the bites fingernails" emoticon? :D )

[TerraNik]

HORAAAAAAAAAAAY!!

Ahsoka has been on crate rest for 3 weeks and she's going batty... So I decided I'd re-start her scent work and also start her tracking training again - no running involved!

Her previous issue was that she would pick up the UNSCENTED article with about 90% accuracy! ;) So I've left it for a few months.

Tonight she got up to 4 metals (1 scented) and picked the scented one 3 out of 4 times! FINALLY!!!!!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hi Ptolomy

I'm tempted to get the next two poles set up but I'm still working on the entry arc. Ie I've got about 3/4 of the arc but need more where she starts on the wrong side and runs around to the correct side.

My throws started pretty off, but now I'm good at getting the toy ahead of her so she looks along the reward line or near where the next poles or the gap between will eventually be.

It's pretty easy to hit that spot when you are square right of the entry point ie on the correct side of the entry or even ahead of it to hit the right exit line but not so easy if you're standing in line with the start of the weave line looking down it (even tho there are only two poles). And then I lob it over her or move wider (left) as she moves towards the poles to get the toy on the exit / reward line.

If she looks up or turns back, she's copped the toy on the skull a few times - oops. If she looks ahead and slightly to the right she can just about catch it.

And the next trick is to get her to bring it straight back instead of ye old self flagellating victory lap. But I guess that's what makes it fun for her.

She doesn't like cheese much and kibble just disappears in the lawn and I find it hard to throw it far enough. Ness's giant food ball treats look easier to throw being the size of golf balls, but I worry that my EH will get full and lose interest.

[ness]

Yeah but MRB it comes out of their food quota for the day and I don't use that many any more and we don't do that many repetitions. For everybody else I use the 4-legs stuff and keep it in the freezer. Usually I break them up for most of my training into lots of little bits.

I only used toys for the 2x2 weaving since Kenz was more toy focused anyway and had a rock solid retrieve.

Edited July 6, 2010 by ness

[Mas1981]

Beautful heelwork Rubystar

Thankyou :D I was very pleased that Ruby maintained enthusiasm with 3 trials in one day, that is quite an ask! Definitely getting to offer some verbal encouragement throughout helped with keeping that head up and tail wagging ;)

Watching those videos back, I noticed heeling around the cones in the two last runs she was anticipating a figure 8 pattern and started to take herself in that direction

Things are looking good RS, So you are allowed to talk to them in Rally then?

Yep, you can chatter away to them to your heart's content :D And in Novice level you can even give your dog a pat for encouragement when in there ;)

I have a few minor concerns of Rally possibly affecting "traditional" obedience, but not enough to not take part should it become recognised and they start holding trials here in WA. eg. One of the exercises you have to get your dog to sit, and then down from the sit, which I try to not encourage because I have one of those dogs who lays down in sit stays ;) Another is you have to do both types of left about turns, and after working to eradicate the behind the back one in the ring, all of a sudden I had to reintroduce it. But these are very minor, and it is a lot of fun to do ;)

I am keen to give Rally O a go as I have a dog who cannot do sit stays.....

[Ptolomy]

Hi Ptolomy

I'm tempted to get the next two poles set up but I'm still working on the entry arc. Ie I've got about 3/4 of the arc but need more where she starts on the wrong side and runs around to the correct side.

My throws started pretty off, but now I'm good at getting the toy ahead of her so she looks along the reward line or near where the next poles or the gap between will eventually be.

It's pretty easy to hit that spot when you are square right of the entry point ie on the correct side of the entry or even ahead of it to hit the right exit line but not so easy if you're standing in line with the start of the weave line looking down it (even tho there are only two poles). And then I lob it over her or move wider (left) as she moves towards the poles to get the toy on the exit / reward line.

If she looks up or turns back, she's copped the toy on the skull a few times - oops. If she looks ahead and slightly to the right she can just about catch it.

And the next trick is to get her to bring it straight back instead of ye old self flagellating victory lap. But I guess that's what makes it fun for her.

She doesn't like cheese much and kibble just disappears in the lawn and I find it hard to throw it far enough. Ness's giant food ball treats look easier to throw being the size of golf balls, but I worry that my EH will get full and lose interest.

Thanks for the feedback Mrs Rusty Bucket.

I watched the 2nd of the SG 2x2 video last night (for the first time) and I think I am on the right track and hopefully my throwing will improve. I think it is probably worse because I reward so heavily in obedience for her focusing on me - now I have changed all the rules and said nope I now want you looking ahead. I hope to go back to using the i-sqeak as a reward when we have the looking/head issue sorted.

I am going to give her a break for 2 weeks until I move house and will then restart it all over again.

[Ptolomy]

I am keen to give Rally O a go as I have a dog who cannot do sit stays.....

Consider this a slap (bugger I don;t have access to all the extra emoticons ;) )

You are being negative - Rubystar will tell you we don't do negative

You have not broken it down small enough pieces to fix the problem

You must have lumped

This is not a dog problem but a handler one :D

Go to the back of the class and come back when you are little Miss Positive please

xx

PS - perhaps you need to post what is happening, how you have tried to fix it, and ask for some suggestions on where to go from here :D

[ness]

Well my UD dog is finally starting to regularly turn out some pretty consistent training rounds - she nailed each exercise very well tonight. Maybe she might just have a UD title in her yet. Her work was seriously on fire.

Go Ness .

[RubyStar]

Yeah but MRB it comes out of their food quota for the day and I don't use that many any more and we don't do that many repetitions. For everybody else I use the 4-legs stuff and keep it in the freezer. Usually I break them up for most of my training into lots of little bits.

I only used toys for the 2x2 weaving since Kenz was more toy focused anyway and had a rock solid retrieve.

Do you know how much food you can go through using food in beginning to train the 2x2 method? I'd be in negative quota for their daily intake, I'd be asking them to throw up some of the food they've eaten back into their dinner bowl So glad I switched to the i-squeak to train this

I only train this once a week (if that) so we've been at 6 poles for a few weeks now. But I have to work that arc more so am thinking of going back to 4 poles to get those entries rock solid. Surprisingly, she has a higher entry success rate starting on the left hand side than on the right I love it when she pretends to weave and runs straight past all the poles and takes the last one or two ;) Little ratbag But I'm in no rush to get the 12 happening, though, as she is still dogwalk phobic so agility is a fair way off while I work through that.

Edited July 6, 2010 by RubyStar

[Mas1981]

I am keen to give Rally O a go as I have a dog who cannot do sit stays.....

Consider this a slap (bugger I don;t have access to all the extra emoticons )

You are being negative - Rubystar will tell you we don't do negative

You have not broken it down small enough pieces to fix the problem

You must have lumped

This is not a dog problem but a handler one ;)

Go to the back of the class and come back when you are little Miss Positive please

xx

PS - perhaps you need to post what is happening, how you have tried to fix it, and ask for some suggestions on where to go from here

I am actually avoiding the sit stay issue at the moment as whatever I do seems to make it worse, I went back to basics after it started happening and I taught him stays from scratch using a different word, i stood right in front of him for a very short time, treated, went a bit further etc, then jackpoted ( eeekkk how do u spell that) - then his stays were fine for about 2 weeks and when I asked him to stay in our special group he started lying down again.

I am going to be brutally honest here and say that I probably dont practice stays as much as I should, I do the other stuff way more than stays and even less now because his laying down makes me feel like I have done something wrong - which I probably have in all honesty as I dont have great handling skills. Hubby recons he sits for awhile and then when I dont call him like I do for a recall he gets bored and lays down??

I also believe that he is lazy and when he realises he cant move he just lays down, he had a beautiful sit stay before so I do think that he knows what a sit stay is, he is just too lazy to sit there and wait - either way if he knows it or not I have to find a way to fix it. I have been lucky so far as I think he has been a pretty easy dog to train so this is a nice challenge in a way.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Mas1981

[Tiggy]

Mas1981 - maybe you need a holiday away from stays for a week or two and then restart super easy, like start at 1 second 'yes' make a big deal and go from there.

[Ptolomy]

I am actually avoiding the sit stay issue at the moment as whatever I do seems to make it worse, I went back to basics after it started happening and I taught him stays from scratch using a different word, i stood right in front of him for a very short time, treated, went a bit further etc, then jackpoted ( eeekkk how do u spell that) - then his stays were fine for about 2 weeks and when I asked him to stay in our special group he started lying down again.

I am going to be brutally honest here and say that I probably dont practice stays as much as I should, I do the other stuff way more than stays and even less now because his laying down makes me feel like I have done something wrong - which I probably have in all honesty as I dont have great handling skills. Hubby recons he sits for awhile and then when I dont call him like I do for a recall he gets bored and lays down??

I also believe that he is lazy and when he realises he cant move he just lays down, he had a beautiful sit stay before so I do think that he knows what a sit stay is, he is just too lazy to sit there and wait - either way if he knows it or not I have to find a way to fix it. I have been lucky so far as I think he has been a pretty easy dog to train so this is a nice challenge in a way.

I have highlighted a possible cause of the stay problem - but the other thing that is very striking is that it sounds like you are expecting way to much from him - you are aiming for something much longer than he is capable of. He was fine for the 2 weeks that you went back to baby stays. You also have to remember that he is a boy - boys have short attention spans, and just when you think that they know what you are asking - you have to go back and explain it all again .

So hang in there and if anybody else has some suggestions - please throw them out for Mason's mum to try