Training Talk Thread

[J...]

Hey any suggestions are potentially useful Ptolomy! I excused myself from the last Novice trial because Darcy dropped - I remember reading it somewhere on here and it made sense not to go ahead with the drop stays.

We don't spend any time at all practising down stays as Darcy is rock solid on those, she won't move on a stay but it's just the dropping in a sit thing.

The lack of stuff going on around her is an excellent point, I'd never thought of that. More stays with boredom coming up

I'd not really thought of doing shorter stays as I'd always been told not too, but given how I start training agility waits with a young dog I reckon it would work.

The opposition reflex idea is interesting too - dunno how Darcy would go with that, she can be a bit soft and I reckon she'd end up belly up on me.

Already do TOT but I don't do much of any kind of sit work in the house, I have polished board floors and it's too hard for them to hold good position on such slippery floors.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Have you got any spare bath mats?

I get mine to do hers on a tramp bed or the bath mat.

Outside I practice stays by chucking treats around while she stays, and on release she gets to go eat the treats. So she knows even when she's surrounded by yummy possum poo at our dog club - she needs to stay.

The TOT has gotten heaps of improvement for me. Worth a shot.

[JulesP]

Poppy is still looking very unhappy in the stays. Have been doing group stays for about a year since she went funny and I still don't feel confident about putting her in a trial. Really don't know what to do.

[ness]

UD training/trialling issue which I'd like some thoughts on - issue is seekback - not the finding the article but the presenting the article. At both trials on the weekend Ness came in with the seekback and stood. On Saturday she stood off to one side but close enough to a front that she didn't fail. Sunday she stood at heel. She didn't go around behind me just came in and sort of did a flip finish to end up at heel (well she never even actually came into front ). She has never pulled it at training so I am lost as to how to go about resolving it. Any ideas??

[mmoo]

Hi, with stays, if you are having a problem, I find that by going back to the begining is the best way to solve it. Set Jess up yo suceed, leave her for only about 10 secs go back and praise and feed her, then end exercise,play and relax her repeat it a few hours later, don't rush to extend the time you leave her. When trying to fix a stay problem, hasten slowly.

[The Spotted Devil]

UD training/trialling issue which I'd like some thoughts on - issue is seekback - not the finding the article but the presenting the article. At both trials on the weekend Ness came in with the seekback and stood. On Saturday she stood off to one side but close enough to a front that she didn't fail. Sunday she stood at heel. She didn't go around behind me just came in and sort of did a flip finish to end up at heel (well she never even actually came into front ). She has never pulled it at training so I am lost as to how to go about resolving it. Any ideas??

ness, the only thing I can suggest is to have a look at your pre-trial warm up. You may be overdoing some aspect of it. Ziggy does the most gorgeous recalls but, at the one Novice trial we bombed, he recalled quite hesitantly and straight into the heel position which he has never done. I suspect I might have put slightly too much emphasis on rewarding heel position during the warm up. I fixed that and he's back to being a reliable rocket launcher

[The Spotted Devil]

Poppy is still looking very unhappy in the stays. Have been doing group stays for about a year since she went funny and I still don't feel confident about putting her in a trial. Really don't know what to do.

JulesP - can you remind us what you have tried already? I don't want to go over old ground as I know you've put a lot of work in

[Ptolomy]

Ness - I lost my fronts and finishes in open with Lexi on the weekend - on the recall she came in and presented in a position somewhere to my left between front and heel. In her case it was part of the meltdown process, I am guessing due to a lack of reinforcement and is the first thing I lose.

[ness]

TSD I tend to flog and rewarding heel position before I go in so guess what on Sunday I only rewarded her in front and that still didn't work. My pre ring routine which is my pre training routine is just get her out of the car and essentially go straight into the ring. I didn't do anything differently at the trial that I have been doing at training. Sigh. Although I did hand her the seekback article outside the ring on Sunday to hold and did that cause a few issues with her going outside the ring and nearly being called off the seekback. The judge was like I am sorry I am going to have to ask you to call your dog off - he has done this to me before and I said just give her a few more, she wasn't blowing me off and I knew it. He gave me the benefit of the doubt and she then tracked back into the ring and found the article. It was only when I thought about it later that I wondered if me having had her hold it outside the ring might have been part of that issue. She usually tracks her seekback straight back with little to no fuss.

[The Spotted Devil]

TSD I tend to flog and rewarding heel position before I go in so guess what on Sunday I only rewarded her in front and that still didn't work. My pre ring routine which is my pre training routine is just get her out of the car and essentially go straight into the ring.

I iz confused *grin* - so do you normally do some heel work AT the grounds, then put her back in the car and then go straight into the ring when you are called?

My focus has really switched to confidence now with Ziggy - when he is really confident that he understands what we're doing he just nails it. I saw that on the weekend with his gorgeous jumping/agility runs. I suspect it is very easy to introduce some sort of doubt into the dog's mind - poor signals, double signals, conflicting signals - be it body language or voice or routine.

Slightly OT, but there's a discussion about release words for agility on Yahoo Clean Run - I have trained "OK" as the release word but I can say "Ready?" (which is very high value for something is about to happen) or move or give preemptive body language and he does not move. I actually use "Ready" when we compete sometimes and he's so confident about what his release word is (and what 'wait' means) that he just winds up like a spring and gives me 100% focus.

Edited May 24, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[RubyStar]

TSD I tend to flog and rewarding heel position before I go in so guess what on Sunday I only rewarded her in front and that still didn't work. My pre ring routine which is my pre training routine is just get her out of the car and essentially go straight into the ring. I didn't do anything differently at the trial that I have been doing at training. Sigh. Although I did hand her the seekback article outside the ring on Sunday to hold and did that cause a few issues with her going outside the ring and nearly being called off the seekback. The judge was like I am sorry I am going to have to ask you to call your dog off - he has done this to me before and I said just give her a few more, she wasn't blowing me off and I knew it. He gave me the benefit of the doubt and she then tracked back into the ring and found the article. It was only when I thought about it later that I wondered if me having had her hold it outside the ring might have been part of that issue. She usually tracks her seekback straight back with little to no fuss.

Are you allowed to say that to a judge? Genuine question

On the topic of going straight to heel, something I have to watch closely with Millie. That place has been overly reinforced so she uses any excuse to jump into heel position ;)

[ness]

Nah no heelwork at the grounds except for maybe asking her to line up when we get to the ring . She gets out for a toilet walk when we get there and then thats it until we go in the ring.

RubyStar - well she was working and it was Dave Rumble. They are only suppose to have you call the dog off if the dog wasn't working.

[JulesP]

Poppy's problem is not so much staying (by herself she is rock solid) but she is worried when in a stay close to other dogs. If they so much as glance at her she starts shuffling her front feet and then drops.

I have been doing a heap of stuff with her around other dogs and she is getting better. The stays I have just been taking it really slowly, staying close, getting her to watch me, lots of praise. Without a verbal reinforcer I don't think she would last the minute.

[The Spotted Devil]

Poppy's problem is not so much staying (by herself she is rock solid) but she is worried when in a stay close to other dogs. If they so much as glance at her she starts shuffling her front feet and then drops.

I have been doing a heap of stuff with her around other dogs and she is getting better. The stays I have just been taking it really slowly, staying close, getting her to watch me, lots of praise. Without a verbal reinforcer I don't think she would last the minute.

Could you start by staying close and rewarding (I would probably use click+treat for accuracy) her when she LOOKS at other dogs? I remember Sue Hogben doing this with a very anxious dog (around people) and before long the dog started to relax and changed her attitude about how scary the person was. And then progress to the steady feet game around other dogs once she has that really nailed? Just some thoughts

[JulesP]

Been doing that for about a year now TSD. She is still a very unhappy BC. She will not even sit in the car with the other dogs without growling. I have to crate her so she can't see them.

[ness]

Yep Ptolomy that sounds about what Ness did on Saturday and then Sunday it was worse again. Will go back to flogging fronts and not rewarding heel position quite so heavily and will see if it holds up at the mock trial .

[The Spotted Devil]

Been doing that for about a year now TSD. She is still a very unhappy BC. She will not even sit in the car with the other dogs without growling. I have to crate her so she can't see them.

Sorry JulesP - that is so tough. I suppose you could either decide that her temperament is just not suited to obedience and consider some other sports OR book a session with a really top trainer to see if you can find another solution. Sometimes it's worth having someone who is independent assess both of you. Would you consider anti anxiety meds to get her on the right track initially? So that she can calm down enough to learn?

[bedazzledx2]

LOL don't be so sure of any judges interpretation of the rules!!!! He could have failed you at that point and I must admit to being surprised you got away with that

Nah no heelwork at the grounds except for maybe asking her to line up when we get to the ring :D . She gets out for a toilet walk when we get there and then thats it until we go in the ring.

RubyStar - well she was working and it was Dave Rumble. They are only suppose to have you call the dog off if the dog wasn't working.

[ness]

LOL bedazzledx2 none of the other judges have had an issue with Ness's searching for the seekback and Dave is just a bit of a stir. He just thought she wouldn't come back into the ring. He also said he was wrong to have suggested it after when I had finished as I was going out the ring and then got roped into doing stays :D .

Edited May 24, 2010 by ness

[Tiggy]

We had another great night at agility training . My handling is slowly getting better, although my Instructor laughed at me when I stopped because I thought Banjo was going too fast :rolleyes: , she said there's no such thing as too fast .