Ptolomy Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Hmm as short as possible would be my guess Seita. I will hold a signal as long as it takes for Ness to take direction - no point in sending her unless she is looking. I honestly don't know if I am losing marks for it I scored full marks at the last trial for holding a signal longer then I would have normally but Ness was determined she was going to go for glove 2 when she was suppose to be getting glove 1 so I held it until she committed to glove 1. Yeh I figured as short as possible, it's just at this stage it sometimes takes quite a few seconds for Ella to lock onto a glove and I'm not going to send her before she's looking at the right one. I was just curious as to how long would be acceptable so I can aim for a certain length! Ok another question, has anyone got any good methods/articles on teaching the seek back. I tried teaching it as a game and Ella definitely does look and sniff for it but I really want her to follow my track a bit closer to help her find it faster as sometimes she spends several very very long minutes searching for it. At the moment I send her and she sort of runs all over the place partially air scenting and partially with her nose on the ground. However I don't think she fully understands how to follow the track as she seems to follow it for a bit and then heads off in a random direction. On top of that she will often go off searching a very long way from where we've previously walked looking for it. I'm looking a bit into how people train dogs to track and trying to adapt that a bit but thought some of you guys might have some good ideas. Seita how did you originally teach Ella seekback. Just a side note - when I first put UD together for Beans I would send her to find her seekback and she would head in totally the opposite direction that I had come, looking in areas that I hadn't even walked - eventually she would end up back at the start post and find the article - I went back to baby seekbacks - so would often face the star post area - and then the penny dropped. To increase the speed after she had picked the article up I would click and take off running away from her and she would coming running after me at the rate of knots - it didn't take long to improve her speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Hmmm well we had an interesting SD training session tonight. That makes two of us!! Ahsoka has decided that the article I want her to bring me is the UN-scented article of the two!! Tonight she sniffed them both and then quite decisively picked up the non-scented article. Three times in a row! Terranik - are you using the same heavily scented article and when Ahsoka brings back the wrong one are you replacing that with a clean new one? Have you tried putting the articles really close together say 10cm? They're 10-15cm apart. And yep - the wrong one is replaced with a clean one. And yep, it's the same heavily scented article. Even *I* could smell the difference between the scented and unscented (I had just broken up her treats by hand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Try again in a couple of days time in a different spot. I tried Cider at 7 months of age and there were no lights on and nobody was home - so I left it for 2 months before I tried again. I did start by scenting the metal with food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Going to post a brag in the training thread - Kenz managed a set of articles out at club (well woods and metals) and found a wood and a metal. I wasn't going to give her a go tonight but I had to set them up outside the ring because a certain big sister decided she couldn't do them in the ring so I ended up doing them after we had finished. Another brag tonight - Keith Millington a judge put us through novice. Kenz has been petrified of him since he bent over when she was in the ring and has been to spooky to even contemplate a round with him. Well tonight we went into the ring and she promptly went to greet him when the lead was removed . Far cry from the scardy dog who wouldn't go anywhere near him. She then managed a full heel pattern, SFE we didn't get but she didn't take off she sat down, she did a reasonable nice recall (but was a bit unsure so her present was off) and the same with her retrieve on the flat. The best bit though - Keith said to me after we had finished she would already be working better then 90% of what is out there trialling. Still a long way to go before I will be happy with her enough to enter her first trial but chuffed to think she might actually be getting there. She then happily approached a strange guy who was hanging around wanting to know about BCs and then topped the night off by managing to play articles . And yes Ptolomy we did get some sit stay practice in as well . Edited March 30, 2010 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue & Waldo Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Well I never thought that I would have anything to add to this topic although I read it all the time. I went to Friends of Obedience tonight at KCC Park to give a CCD trial a go. I have only ever seen 1 trial so was a real newbie at this. Boy did Cindy do well. A clear pass with healing. SFE-moved her 2 front legs (but that is awesome for her). Recall perfect recall but would have lost a couple of points for the way she and I walked up the other end of the ring-I was geeing her up but was told it was a bit untidy. Perfect sit stay-did not even break when a dog sniffed her tummy. AWESOME! Perfect drop stay. I am stoked! I need to work on my heeling footwork-walk faster but with smaller steps and improve her lagging. I was rapt that whe did not miss any auto sits, drops or stands! Her stands are weak so the fact that she got them all was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Well I never thought that I would have anything to add to this topic although I read it all the time.I went to Friends of Obedience tonight at KCC Park to give a CCD trial a go. I have only ever seen 1 trial so was a real newbie at this. Boy did Cindy do well. A clear pass with healing. SFE-moved her 2 front legs (but that is awesome for her). Recall perfect recall but would have lost a couple of points for the way she and I walked up the other end of the ring-I was geeing her up but was told it was a bit untidy. Perfect sit stay-did not even break when a dog sniffed her tummy. AWESOME! Perfect drop stay. I am stoked! I need to work on my heeling footwork-walk faster but with smaller steps and improve her lagging. I was rapt that whe did not miss any auto sits, drops or stands! Her stands are weak so the fact that she got them all was amazing. Well done you should be thrilled - but sounds like you need to start playing the steady feet game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Ok so second SD training sesh tonit and I do think she is beginning to understand the game. Four articles out and she got it every time except when the scented article rolled straight against a clean article and she got a bit confused. Still very enthusiastic though which is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue & Waldo Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Well done you should be thrilled - but sounds like you need to start playing the steady feet game Thanks for the encouragement-I feel this progress is very small when I watch the videos in these threads. You should have seen her SFE BEFORE I knew about this game. SFE used to equal roll over for a tummy rub or hello or an auto sit. Part of the problem was that when I take her to nursing homes to visit I taught her to sit for a pat. SFE then = sit for a pat. More steady feet game time! Any other suggestions would be welcome. I have learnt so much here!!! BTW the only downer last night was that a rat started to sniff my bum bag (foutunately after I took it off!) and I am totally rodent phobic. Some wag called out if there was an JRT around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Ok another question, has anyone got any good methods/articles on teaching the seek back. I tried teaching it as a game and Ella definitely does look and sniff for it but I really want her to follow my track a bit closer to help her find it faster as sometimes she spends several very very long minutes searching for it. At the moment I send her and she sort of runs all over the place partially air scenting and partially with her nose on the ground. However I don't think she fully understands how to follow the track as she seems to follow it for a bit and then heads off in a random direction. On top of that she will often go off searching a very long way from where we've previously walked looking for it. I'm looking a bit into how people train dogs to track and trying to adapt that a bit but thought some of you guys might have some good ideas. Seita how did you originally teach Ella seekback. Just a side note - when I first put UD together for Beans I would send her to find her seekback and she would head in totally the opposite direction that I had come, looking in areas that I hadn't even walked - eventually she would end up back at the start post and find the article - I went back to baby seekbacks - so would often face the star post area - and then the penny dropped. To increase the speed after she had picked the article up I would click and take off running away from her and she would coming running after me at the rate of knots - it didn't take long to improve her speed. I originally taught her by dropping the article and walking a few steps past it before turning around and sending her to find it. I think I moved from there too quickly to doing longer ones and then when I added turns I think she had no real idea on how to search for it. I used to play the find it game where I would hide an object in the yard or house and let her go find it and I think now when I do a seek back she reverts back to that so just runs around willy nilly looking for it. She finds it most of the time it's just very excrutiating to watch as it can take 5 or even 10 minutes to find some days. And the longer it takes to find the more stressed and tired out she becomes which is not really a good state for her to be in for the rest of the trial. Do you always train it with a start post? I was toying with the idea of setting up a post and training her to go back to it and search from there but I'm possibily to lazy to set up a post most of the time! I was hoping to teach her to search from where we stop back along the track but I'm just not entirely sure of the best way to re-teach this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Seita I was told to always train with a start post and Ness was doing proper length seekbacks inside a fortnight and has missed a token of one seekback ever. I taught it the same way you did. Drop it then about turn and send, then add a turn, then add a turn the other direction. The one she did miss happened to be at a trial early on when the grass was long and the grounds covered in duck poo. She got near to it but unless the dog went straight over the top they weren't going to find it. Only one dog on that day in the whole of UD managed to find it. Having said that since then she has been one of the few who have managed to find it without much effort. She was never taught to track it but she decided somewhere around the middle of last year she would track it straight back from me and now always takes a very direct line back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) We always have start posts in WA and yes we always use them in training, it may not be a pole that we use though - last night it was a red food bowl turned upside down. Edited March 30, 2010 by Ptolomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I have used cones, I also made up a stick with a screw in the bottom of it about the same size as a seekback article which I could easily fit in my bumbag to take to the park. Boxes. We have an assorted array of start pegs used at trains - including metal discs (like the type the would use in agility with course numbers on them), I even used a bit of bamboo I found at the park one day. Doesn't matter what it is just so long as its something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Do you WA folks get together every night to train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Do you WA folks get together every night to train? LOL no it just seems that way Mondays is obedience and yes we do train together Tuesday is agility night for others but we are doing obedience at the moment Wednesdays is obedience/agility and yes we do train together Thursday and Friday are W or C night (Wine or Cider) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 seems that way doesn't it JulesP. I know Ptolomy goes to K9 to train each night of the week and I think she catches up with assorted people depending on what night of the week it is. I also know they are deep into Royal show preparation so probably making an extra effort to all train although not like they really need an excuse . If they aren't down there doing obedience training they are all down there doing agility training :p . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Do you WA folks get together every night to train? LOL no it just seems that way Mondays is obedience and yes we do train together Tuesday is agility night for others but we are doing obedience at the moment Wednesdays is obedience/agility and yes we do train together Thursday and Friday are W or C night (Wine or Cider) ;) Wish I lived closer to the K9, I feel a move coming on...... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wednesday are a real social outing - we meet late afternoon for obedience - then at 6pm we pack up and head to Dome for dinner and then back to K9 at 7pm to help set up for agility or some more obedience This is what training should be like ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Don't go rubbing it in Ptolomy - am jealous of you guys ;) ;) . I am shocked to hear you say that Thur/Fri night is wine or Cider night - I thought every day was CIDER day now :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 An essential part of training Ptolomy!!!! Do you WA folks get together every night to train? LOL no it just seems that way ;) Mondays is obedience and yes we do train together Tuesday is agility night for others but we are doing obedience at the moment Wednesdays is obedience/agility and yes we do train together Thursday and Friday are W or C night (Wine or Cider) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wednesday are a real social outing - we meet late afternoon for obedience - then at 6pm we pack up and head to Dome for dinner and then back to K9 at 7pm to help set up for agility or some more obedience This is what training should be like ;) I am also getting very jelous, training and food, almost my 2 favorite things in the whole world besides chocolate..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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