Dogs And Bones.. Your Thoughts?

[Bundyburger]

When you give your dog a bone, do you expect to be able to remove the bone at any stage without a reaction eg snarling or growling?

Both of our dogs(including the puppy) we can take bones/food from them at any stage without a reaction, not so much as a peep. My friend has a dog who growls and is quite intimidating when he has a bone and she is afraid she will be bitten if she tries to take it away. This to me is not acceptable and she SHOULD be able to take the food away at any point without a reaction to the dog. Advice she recieved from a trainer(who's methods I don't like as I had shoddy experience with another francise under the same banner) was to just give the dog the bone and leave it alone because he growls if she goes near him when he has the bone

Am I the only one that thinks this is wrong? I really feel for her but have no advice on how she can fix the problem as he is making her scared when he behaves like that. You can take his food away from him no problems, but a bone forget it!

What are others thoughts? Any advice I can give my friend?

Edited February 16, 2010 by Bundy's Mum

[Snout Girl]

We give our dogs a bone every saturday (keeps them occupied so I can wash the floors ) and I have no problems picking it up, moving it, or even taking it away if its time to do something else. have never had a growl or even a wimper.

[lokelani]

Nope, your not the only one. I can take anything off Bosco with absolutely no problems at all. I made sure when he was a pup that he got used to it, especially highly prized food items like bones.

I dont really have any advice for your friend, but I certainly don't think that it is acceptable, nor should it be ignored.

[Guest Tess32]

It's not acceptable but I would have a professional look at helping her with the resource guarding - too risky on her own.

[Jetty]

Jet & Jessie do not growl at all when I take a bone off of them. I usually pick it up and move it to another location for them to have. I think that is what it should be. I am thinking that your friend has always just left the dog to eat and has never actually taken the bowl off of them etc to teach that its the way things should work?

[Nic oh lah]

Sophie has no food aggression. You have to be able to take away a bone / food / toy incase the instance arose that a dog was having a nice time about to chomp down on a canetoad or something. What this dog is doing is not acceptable behaviour. Instinctual or not I wouldnt stand for it. If it was me i'd work on removing the bone using a "mine" command and a water-pistol in the face to correct growling.

[SpikesPuppy]

Sophie has no food aggression. You have to be able to take away a bone / food / toy incase the instance arose that a dog was having a nice time about to chomp down on a canetoad or something. What this dog is doing is not acceptable behaviour. Instinctual or not I wouldnt stand for it. If it was me i'd work on removing the bone using a "mine" command and a water-pistol in the face to correct growling.

A water-pistol can actually aggravate a dog further...

If it was my dog I would probably just stop giving it bones altogether Mine are all trained from a very young age to drop/hand over anything they have without any aggression (I start by holding the bone as they eat it and offering a treat in exhange), but with an adult dog- especially one you are afraid of, it is IMO a huge risk and without assistance from an experienced person, I would not risk it.

[Guest Tess32]

Sophie has no food aggression. You have to be able to take away a bone / food / toy incase the instance arose that a dog was having a nice time about to chomp down on a canetoad or something. What this dog is doing is not acceptable behaviour. Instinctual or not I wouldnt stand for it. If it was me i'd work on removing the bone using a "mine" command and a water-pistol in the face to correct growling.

A water-pistol can actually aggravate a dog further...

If it was my dog I would probably just stop giving it bones altogether Mine are all trained from a very young age to drop/hand over anything they have without any aggression (I start by holding the bone as they eat it and offering a treat in exhange), but with an adult dog- especially one you are afraid of, it is IMO a huge risk and without assistance from an experienced person, I would not risk it.

I agree. I don't think telling someone to use that method without knowing anything about how the dog may react is a dangerous.

[Aidan]

As a practical matter, I think it's good to be able to take things from a dog's mouth at any time, should it be necessary (and it so often is!) A more serious concern is what would happen if the dog was eating a bone and a child approached? That said, I don't think we should bug or pester a dog who is trying to eat, nor worry about this as a sign of dominance considering that submissive wolves in the wild are allowed to resource guard against more dominant wolves. Training and maintenance are required, daily pestering (as some people do, particularly with pups) is not.

Here is an article I wrote that your friend might find helpful:

http://positivepetzine.com/food_guarding

[Nic oh lah]

Sophie has no food aggression. You have to be able to take away a bone / food / toy incase the instance arose that a dog was having a nice time about to chomp down on a canetoad or something. What this dog is doing is not acceptable behaviour. Instinctual or not I wouldnt stand for it. If it was me i'd work on removing the bone using a "mine" command and a water-pistol in the face to correct growling.

A water-pistol can actually aggravate a dog further...

If it was my dog I would probably just stop giving it bones altogether Mine are all trained from a very young age to drop/hand over anything they have without any aggression (I start by holding the bone as they eat it and offering a treat in exhange), but with an adult dog- especially one you are afraid of, it is IMO a huge risk and without assistance from an experienced person, I would not risk it.

I agree. I don't think telling someone to use that method without knowing anything about how the dog may react is a dangerous.

Hence the "if it was me" - it wasn't a suggestion of what to do, it was what I would do if MY dog were doing this. At no stage did I indicate I was giving advice about how to deal with a dog I don't know. Sorry to break it to you but i'm not a moron, but feel free to go nuts with the flaming if you're the boss of the internet

Edited February 16, 2010 by NicGSDlover

[Bundyburger]

It's not acceptable but I would have a professional look at helping her with the resource guarding - too risky on her own.

The professional is the one saying to leave the dog alone until he's finished which is a problem as she wants to be able to take the bone away if needed, and the professional cost a fair bit of money to get out in the first place (for that problem and others) that she cannot justify getting someone else at the moment(and neither could I after outlaying that much for someone who simply says to leave the dog alone!) The dog in question is about 4-5yrs I believe.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Bundy's Mum

[SpikesPuppy]

It's not acceptable but I would have a professional look at helping her with the resource guarding - too risky on her own.

The professional is the one saying to leave the dog alone until he's finished, that's the problem, and they cost so much to get out in the first instance for other issues as well as this that she cannot afford someone else and is too scared to try anything on her own due to his attitude as she is afraid he may bite.

Does she have to give him bones? Is it possible that she give him chicken frames or 'faster' bones in the future?

[poodlefan]

It's not acceptable but I would have a professional look at helping her with the resource guarding - too risky on her own.

The professional is the one saying to leave the dog alone until he's finished, that's the problem, and they cost so much to get out in the first instance for other issues as well as this that she cannot afford someone else and is too scared to try anything on her own due to his attitude as she is afraid he may bite.

What would happen if he had his bone and she approached (not too close) called him and waved a nice big piece of hot roast chicken at him? Would he leave the bone and allow his lead to be put on?

The "I'll swap you for something better' approach is probably the safest way to tackle the issue without professional help.

Failing that, I'd be feeding him in a crate.

[spoilt lab lives here]

Ramses onyl ever growled at me once over a bone. He was 6months old and got in trouble for it and has never thought about it again. He tries to move away when i approach him while he has a bone but I can walk right up and take it. He does not allow Teddy the goat to approach him while he has a bone or any of the other dogs he will have a growl and chase them off. I seperate them all at feeding time and for any treats.

[Guest Tess32]

It's not acceptable but I would have a professional look at helping her with the resource guarding - too risky on her own.

The professional is the one saying to leave the dog alone until he's finished, that's the problem, and they cost so much to get out in the first instance for other issues as well as this that she cannot afford someone else and is too scared to try anything on her own due to his attitude as she is afraid he may bite.

I meant a good professional.

But if they can't afford to fix it, they'll have to manage it either by not giving bones OR as they said, leaving the dog alone.

She could try pulling in the leadership reigns in other areas, see if it begins to effect his resource guarding.

But really, it should be fixed once they have the money - what if a little kid came along and tried to take the bone away?

[Bundyburger]

But really, it should be fixed once they have the money - what if a little kid came along and tried to take the bone away?

The solution to that according to BB's is to just not give the dog a bone when there may be children present. They will be getting someone else when they can afford it though as there are leadership problems in other areas too that are improving but perhaps the methods aren't right.

PF, you can't call him away with something else if he has a bone, he doesn't listen.

[poodlefan]

But really, it should be fixed once they have the money - what if a little kid came along and tried to take the bone away?

The solution to that according to BB's is to just not give the dog a bone when there may be children present. They will be getting someone else when they can afford it though as there are leadership problems in other areas too that are improving but perhaps the methods aren't right.

PF, you can't call him away with something else if he has a bone, he doesn't listen.

How about when he has something he values less? Ordinary food?

Does the dog have any general obedience training?

Edited February 16, 2010 by poodlefan

[Guest Tess32]

But really, it should be fixed once they have the money - what if a little kid came along and tried to take the bone away?

The solution to that according to BB's is to just not give the dog a bone when there may be children present. They will be getting someone else when they can afford it though as there are leadership problems in other areas too that are improving but perhaps the methods aren't right.

PF, you can't call him away with something else if he has a bone, he doesn't listen.

Well that's just stupid - he's not guarding it because it's a bone, it's because he WANTS IT and it has a high value on it. I'm sure he could very well want 'other things' too.

[bc_girl]

Hi all

It is my dog that Bundys_mum is talking about. The problem is not so much the cost of getting out another trainer, but the fact that I can't afford to get out another trainer and NOT solve the problem. If I have no luck in making some progress myself in the next week or so I will definitely seek further professional help, but being that I am a student and just forked out an entire week's wage to get a trainer out not just once but twice, to solve the problem to no avail, I'm not keen to do the same again right away. I believe the problem has worsened of late as I have followed the advice of the trainer and tried to reassert the pack hierarchy.

I have been working on the triangle of temptation, which he does perfectly. He won't actually take the bone without me saying so, but once he has it I cannot approach him without a growl. Fortunately we don't have any young children around, but that is exactly why I am trying to solve this problem, I 100% agree with Bundys_mum that is is not acceptable.

We did not just leave him to eat as a puppy, we did try to practise removing his food and he was fine. The problem is only with bones and as I got him as a 16yo, I never thought of the possible consequences of this possessiveness and stupidly did not practice doing the same with bones. Also, before anyone asks, he goes to obedience training, did puppy preschool, is socialized etc, we sincerely tried to do all the right things with him.

[Cosmolo]

If they are not happy with the advice from the trainer- they should call them and say so first and give the trainer the opportunity to give them other solutions. Failing that, another professional as soon as they can manage it.

Resource guarding is an issue that can start with one thing- bones for instance- and then carry over to other things once the dog realises it works well to keep things that they want.

Although i rarely take bones from my dogs, i expect to be able to and work toward this when i first get them- through exchanges, additions and recalls/ out commands, more than removal of anything.

ETA Hi BC girl- welcome to DOL. There are a number of things that can be done to combat resource guarding. I would seriously consider contacting another trainer if the first one cannot give you other reasonable options.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Cosmolo