Mum And Puppies

[Aziah]

Our puppies are whelped and raised in the house. The bitch has a large covered whelping box and a puppy pen around it. Right in the middle of the loungeroom.

So when I say remove her from the pen, it's the puppy pen surrounding the box.

That box, lino and pen look so familiar same set-up here, such a wonderful box design

Edited February 15, 2010 by Aziah

[SpikesPuppy]

My pups were moved into a pen with bed at 2 weeks (they were escaping the box!), however Ziva has been able to exit the box since then (via a board in place of a wire panel). The pups aren't in the lounge room but the front room/study where I am most of the day anyway. The room is blocked off via a baby gate so Ziva has the entire room to stretch out and relax

[Parkeyre]

Was going to post in the breeders forum, but I want the general public's perceptions too.

If you were going to look at a litter of puppies, would it concern you if mum was not in the pen with you when you met the puppies? So say this was the following scenario:

*potential puppy buyers come in and meet mum (and other adult dogs)

*adult dogs put away, and puppy buyers introduced and get to play with puppies.

*Adult dogs kept locked away until puppy buyers leave (unless they want to see mum again).

As a breeder - what would you do?

As a puppy buyer - what would you expect?

for me - I think mum's can be quite protective of their young, so it certainly wouldn't bother me if she was put away, especially if young kids were around too! As a breeder - I find it's too much for me to watch - young kids holding puppies right, talking to puppy buyers and having to keep my eye on mum too... it would do my head in.

I was talking to a fellow DOLer about it and we have quite differing views. They think that if you can't have mum in the pen with you, then she would run a mile from that breeder.

Does your opinion change dependant on breed?

Picking up Cooper; i met the litter, the mother and all the other dogs. mum was with the dogs and pups were weaned.

By not having mum there was no distraction, and i could focus more on the pups at my feet.

I found it easier then trying to avoid a bitch who might be protective of pups, or find it overwhelming with new people handling her pups.

[leopuppy04]

Same set up as ours SBT

[WreckitWhippet]

That was the first version, we are now up to version three with a perspex lid, so I can see in. I'm going with a hole in the side wall with pperspex next litter, so I don't have to get off the lounge

[poochmad]

Due to a long story, we didn't meet Henschke's mother when we went to collect him. I was not concerned as the breeder was keeping his brother and all of the dogs seemed to have lovely temperaments.

Later, when we were looking at another pup, this time from another breeder, we fell in love with the mother and wanted to take her! I personally quite like to meet the mum as I think it gives a good indication of how the pups will be.

[Niques]

As a first time puppy purchaser, I think it would have bothered us a little given the quantity of literature stressing meeting one or both parents. I think it would also depend on the circumstances and general feel as well. If we got to meet Mum for a bit and had time to interact with her and then the breeder gave a sensible explanation for putting her away whilst playing with the pups, then I'd be less put off.

As it was, our pup's Mum hasn't been excessively fussed with the puppies either time we visited. She'd pop in and out to feed or clean them, but what she really wanted was our attention And, as a result, my younger brother has ended up falling more in love with her than any of the puppies ;)

Edited February 15, 2010 by Niques

[leopuppy04]

Good point niques. I think I wouldn't trust any breeder who won't show me the mum .

But I do wonder about letting mum in with pups for a variety of reasons ;)

[Bilbo Baggins]

;) :D I love the stories of people falling in love with the adults my foundation girl always won over the visitors whether it was her puppies or the grandkids.

Now her daughter has taken over the role. ;)

[Nik]

LP, when we came to look at your pups, I wasn't worried about the fact that mum wasn't in with the pups. To be honest, I was happy to see what she looked like (stunning of course ) but my main interest was the puppies! It would have been crazy with your pups, mummy dog, you, me, my husband and our four boys in with the pups (it was crazy enough as it was!!)

The pup we ended up getting didn't mind us in with her pups - only she wanted all the attention for herself. But she was always independent from the pups according to her breeder... she wanted to do the school run to pick up her kids the afternoon of the pups birth!

[ellz]

I don't encourage a lot of visitors (excepting essential ones and dog-savvy people) to see my puppies prior to vaccinations but those who do come are always able to see my girls with their puppies. Generally they all stay together in the box/pen, but if the mums get too pushy demanding attention or agitated about strangers handling their babies, then I will explain the situation and either move everybody away from the puppies (depending upon their age) or put mum in a safe place.

I do agree that provided a suitable, sensible explanation is given, that most people will understand.

[poodlemum]

My pups were moved into a pen with bed at 2 weeks (they were escaping the box!), however Ziva has been able to exit the box since then (via a board in place of a wire panel). The pups aren't in the lounge room but the front room/study where I am most of the day anyway. The room is blocked off via a baby gate so Ziva has the entire room to stretch out and relax

hehe - slightly OT - with Poodles it's 3 weeks! After this, they were moved to the laundry

[tara taylor]

The first breeder we went to the pups were brought out of a kennel area which was a large colourbond type building. Behind the closed door we could hear many dogs barking in the shed. We then asked to see the parents. They were brought out separately and both held up from the puppies. We were warned that the adults dogs weren't friendly to children so we kept our 3 children close to us, although the kids were encouraged to play with the pups. It had been over 13 years since we bought a puppy, but we just didn't feel right about buying a pup from there. The fact that the dogs were brought out of the shed away from the puppies and all the dogs going crazy behind the door made us uneasy. We told the breeder we would think about it and then rang to say we were undecided.

The next breeder we went to was a puppy farmer. Even thought she was a registered breeder, she had far too many dogs and breeds for our liking. Didn't stay long there!!!!

Hubby went alone to the next breeder as it was in another city. I trusted him and we both knew the type of breeder we wanted our puppy from. He said the mum and puppies were running around happily and all the other dogs were friendly and the breeder very welcoming. He paid a deposit and 3 weeks later we have our gorgeous puppy.

So yes, seeing the mum interact with her pups was important to us. I don't quite know why, perhaps it makes it feel more lovey dovey, rather than just a transaction, iykwim?

[leopuppy04]

LP, when we came to look at your pups, I wasn't worried about the fact that mum wasn't in with the pups. To be honest, I was happy to see what she looked like (stunning of course ) but my main interest was the puppies! It would have been crazy with your pups, mummy dog, you, me, my husband and our four boys in with the pups (it was crazy enough as it was!!)

The pup we ended up getting didn't mind us in with her pups - only she wanted all the attention for herself. But she was always independent from the pups according to her breeder... she wanted to do the school run to pick up her kids the afternoon of the pups birth!

Haha - I know what you mean Nik!! Kinta was always an attentive mother and wanted to count heads all the time. she was still cleaning up after them at 12wks!!

TT - I do know what you mean, although yours is perhaps a little different? I certainly don't blame you for not buying puppies from those breeders! I guess it all comes down to how it's delivered across and how the puppies are raised and the atmosphere rather than what exactly takes place. I certainly got the feel from all the visitors that we had, that it was the 'norm' to take mum away and they saw nothing wrong with that . We always had mum close though so that she could say hello later :D

[percyk]

this reminds me of a time

a time that ended in heartache and bad feelings all round

we were going to buy a pup...a small breed

went to see the breeder who was very well known in the club...

ok...we get to the establishment which looked great and we had choice of two litters

we opted for a desired colour as you do lol

even though the first litter we saw had a delightful mum and tiny pups

the next litter in the next room was pretty but the mum went for my daughter...out of protection i suppose but it was enough to make an impression

on me but you know how it is...its puppy time and the excitement and impatience get in the way

we went back several weeks to collect our little girl pup

and promptly returned her within two weeks

she was just strange

she was supposedly from good stock...friendly and well balanced but she turned out be a loner...preferring the company of dogs to humans

we tried with her...but in the end she was growling and snapping at the tender age of about ten weeks and she wasnt fit to be a childs pet in my opinion

the breeder reluctantly refunded us the money and the wife was extremely rude saying tha we probably had mistreated the pup, hit it or something

this assailed my senses totally cos we had talked on the phone several times before going up to visit and also i had brought my own delightful cocker for them to meet

tears for me...anger from them

it was awful

but i would never buy a puppy if i couldnt see the bitch with the puppies...

it may have been a one off unlucky incident but it still leaves a sad memory of a sale gone wrong

the fact that the guy was so well known added to the hurt

[Tansy]

I actually don't have puppy buyers over until the pups have had their first vacc, unless one is going to a 'doggy friend'. Previously this has been about 6 weeks, but going forward I'm not going to vacc until 8 weeks. I'm not real stressed about selling puppies early. The only thing I find a pain is people asking me what is wrong with my puppies, given they are 'still' available at 8 weeks.

At six weeks or more, the pups are pretty independent, and Mum is pretty over them. When puppy buyers come over the whole litter will be running around in the house/yard with all my other dogs, although if it gets a bit hectic some or all of the adults will get crated. Some of them just get a bit excited when people come to the house. For my last litter I had people come over and say, "oh, how lovely, Mum is playing with the puppies.". Um, no, it was one of my other girls playing with them, Mum was on the sofa.

So, Mum will be around, as will all my other adults, but it doesn't mean she will be interacting with the pups.

[centitout]

I introduce my guys one at a time,brothers/sisters,mums etc,then they are allowed to play en masse.I do not like having people interacting with pups with the mother their also,some bitches will get very protective of their babies,and rightly so.

I will supervise closely ,but if i feel the mother is becoming stressed,i will explain that it is better to put her away for a while so they can play with the puppies without her becoming too agitated.

The well being of both mother and pups comes before people needing to see the "bond" between them,but at the same time i would be wary of people just bringing them out of a shed and quickly putting them back in.or not introducing people to the mother/sire etc at all.

[SpikesPuppy]

My pups were moved into a pen with bed at 2 weeks (they were escaping the box!), however Ziva has been able to exit the box since then (via a board in place of a wire panel). The pups aren't in the lounge room but the front room/study where I am most of the day anyway. The room is blocked off via a baby gate so Ziva has the entire room to stretch out and relax

hehe - slightly OT - with Poodles it's 3 weeks! After this, they were moved to the laundry

Here are mine (there is usually a dog bed (bottom of a PP40 crate) for them to sleep in but I was sitting there lol so took it out)

Our adult dogs make a fuss when people come but usually settle down pretty quickly once they are let out of their crates to meet the visitors (and am hoping Mum will have Nessa at a show or obedience when puppy people come LOL)

[twodoggies2001]

I remember when we went to see Kyzer when he was 4 weeks old, the Mum was there, but she kept barging through the puppies to get pats from people! She was squashing puppies left right and centre so got crated. She didn't care that people were playing with them, just wanted some loving too.

As a prospective puppy buyer I would like to meet mum then have her put away for this reason

If I were picking a puppy to come and share our family home, I would definately like to meet the mum. as I would like to see her temprement. Having small grandchildren in my case it is imperative that the family temprement is good.

by the way, my granndkids are NOT allowed to be rough and 'rude' to my dogs.

[sandgrubber]

If pups are weaned I wouldn't expect to see Mum with them.

If pups weren't weaned, I wouldn't expect to be able to handle then.

I think there's no right answer but just explain why you're doing whatever you're doing with Mum to the buyers.

I don't understand the bolded part of the above. If pups aren't partially weaned, NO VISITORS. Full stop.

I start weaning at 3 to 4 weeks. I allow visits when weaning is well underway and pups have outgrown the whelping box, eyes open, walking fairly well. My girls are great mothers, but not protective when people visit. I leave it natural when people visit. Mum can come and go if she chooses or nick off is she chooses (she usually says 'hi' and nicks off). Other dogs are free to interact with people and pups. Often they compete for attention from potential puppy buyers. Mum isn't spending a lot of time with pups at 4 weeks plus, and I don't allow visits earlier.