Mum And Puppies

[leopuppy04]

Was going to post in the breeders forum, but I want the general public's perceptions too.

If you were going to look at a litter of puppies, would it concern you if mum was not in the pen with you when you met the puppies? So say this was the following scenario:

*potential puppy buyers come in and meet mum (and other adult dogs)

*adult dogs put away, and puppy buyers introduced and get to play with puppies.

*Adult dogs kept locked away until puppy buyers leave (unless they want to see mum again).

As a breeder - what would you do?

As a puppy buyer - what would you expect?

for me - I think mum's can be quite protective of their young, so it certainly wouldn't bother me if she was put away, especially if young kids were around too! As a breeder - I find it's too much for me to watch - young kids holding puppies right, talking to puppy buyers and having to keep my eye on mum too... it would do my head in.

I was talking to a fellow DOLer about it and we have quite differing views. They think that if you can't have mum in the pen with you, then she would run a mile from that breeder.

Does your opinion change dependant on breed?

[poodlefan]

If pups are weaned I wouldn't expect to see Mum with them.

If pups weren't weaned, I wouldn't expect to be able to handle then.

I think there's no right answer but just explain why you're doing whatever you're doing with Mum to the buyers.

[MolassesLass]

I agree with PF in that there's no right answer. Some buyers will run a mile if you have dirt on your lightswitches so you're never going to please everyone.

Molly was never protective of her pups once they were old enough I would be letting potential owners around so I would have her with the pups. I put her away after she's been met otherwise she just butts the pups out of the way to hog all the attention. Once the pups fall asleep, I'll put them away and then bring out mum on her own for a bit.

I wouldn't NEED to see mum with her pups when buying but there would be situations where the circomstances around it would make the breeder seem dodgy.

[Monah]

I agree with PF.

Good job I'm not a breeder, I'd have a fit if pups were handled by young kids, played with etc. Normal, gentle stuff is fine, but many have no idea

I've always seen pups with mothers as I've been there when they are very young.

[WreckitWhippet]

I remove mine from the puppy pen or the whelping box if someone who doesn't know the dogs is coming to visit.

Anyone that knows me and knows the dogs, can put up with the bitches crawling all over them and demanding the attention or they can put them in their place.

My girls couldn't give a crap at who comes to look at the pups, as far as they are concerned it's all about them. Mine are not protective when it comes to people, I'm always in the whelping box and spend hours and hours in there and it's not uncommon for friends to come over and we'll sit in there together, look at the pups and handle them.

[leopuppy04]

I didn't even let anyone see our pups before they were 4wks - before that they were just 'doggy friends' and one puppy buyer family.

Mum was always in the pen then and we handed the puppies out. Once pups were weaned, mum was kept away as she was a little protective over them with people she didn't know. With people she knew, from day 1 she would invite them into the box with her

[Dogsfevr]

Like other depends on the bitch.People have no idea how some bitches will protect there bubs & that is what nature expects.

A mum in the pen & a mum out the pen can be 2 different personalities & i would have no issue with that at all as both breeder & purchaser.

When people come out here its normally pups first & then mum.

generally we have already done the meet & greet so its a simple case of viewing the pups.

If people havent done a meet or greet they see one of our other dogs first so we get to know them & whether we are happy to sell a pup before there let loose on the pups plus mother.

Some people that come out are your worst nightmare ,we always havea dog that is bomb proof & we watch there body language & how they interact before committing & then having them out with pups.

Some people just dont think around pups & that at 8weeks there still experiencing life.

You can have cases where sadly the bitch passed away during birth.

There is more to selecting the right dog than dismissing it just because bitch wasnt in the pen

[Esky the husky]

When I picked Esky up I got to meet all the breeders dogs 1 by 1

They were all dog runs and all very well behaved

I didn't think twice about them being seperated

[Aziah]

If pups are weaned I wouldn't expect to see Mum with them.

If pups weren't weaned, I wouldn't expect to be able to handle then.

I think there's no right answer but just explain why you're doing whatever you're doing with Mum to the buyers.

I agree...

[pie]

I remember when we went to see Kyzer when he was 4 weeks old, the Mum was there, but she kept barging through the puppies to get pats from people! She was squashing puppies left right and centre so got crated. She didn't care that people were playing with them, just wanted some loving too.

As a prospective puppy buyer I would like to meet mum then have her put away for this reason

[Scarlet]

When I bought Maddy I saw the litter of pups first then Mum came in and she stayed with the pups for the rest of the visit. The pups were about 4 weeks.

The mother was beautiful and I could have stolen her She was lapping up the attention and very relaxed with us looking at her pups but there were no children. Three sons were with me but they were all over 16yrs.

I would like to meet mum (and dad if possible) but wouldn't expect the mum to be there with the pups, especially if the breeder said she was protective of them.

[alpha bet]

Looks like I differ from many here. Our dogs don't live up in the pens they live around the house with us. However I only have 3-4 dogs of my own at any time also I have less than one litter a year, so for us it is a fun time for the family.

Pups live in our family room from the time they are born. They have contact with people, cats, our other dogs and visitors. In fact the two bitches played tag team in caring for my last litter. Now the younger bitch has just had her first litter a few days ago and has taken everything in her stride. Right from birth pups are cuddled by all our kids (teenagers) and friends. I know there is a risk of infection but the benefit to the pups is more important to me.

Have raised 15 litters in the last 25 years and only had one bitch who i separated when people came to look at pups. She was a bitch who was out on breeders terms and she was too excitable around people.

Otherwise all the bitches have been happy to be introduced to the people and have their babies handled. Personally I don't breed with a bitch that hasnt had loads of socialising and can handle the activity. Also prefer to leave bitches until 2 years of age before i mate them so they have the maturity.

Would love to hear if others out there follow a similar pattern.

[SpikesPuppy]

So far, Ziva hasn't cared about people & her pups (and by 3 weeks have had several people over, the stud owner & young son, Z's breeder, other breeders and some other doggy friends & their kids), at first she kept watch but now she couldn't care less! In fact I think she wants them to go already

When puppy people come to meet the pups (starting next weekend), Ziva will most likely do whatever she wants- she is a very soft & easy dog anyway. Caber will depend on how the people feel about him (as he can be very forward and if they have kids etc he could knock them over by accident). Nessa the Collie will most likely be put away or kept on leash as people are here to see Border Terriers, not collies.

I think it depends on the situation, breeder's set up, dog breed and individual temperament of the dogs etc. And there is no right or wrong answer though IMO if you feel the breeder is *hiding* something by not having the dam around, then you need to tread carefully and re-think you decision about buying a pup from that breeder.

One family I have coming over on the weekend have 2 young daughters, who are very gentle apparently but as Ziva has not had much positive experience with toddlers, I have warned them that she may disappear if she is uncomfortable (which is what she does as opposed to biting!! And what I am happy with). And they are fine with this.

[Simply Grand]

As a (first time) puppy buyer:

The first time I went to visit Saxon the pups were 2 weeks old, not weaned (obviously) and mum was with them. I really liked being able to see her with them and at that age wouldn't have expected to see them without mum. She kept a close eye on the babies but was not overly protective and was fine with me handling the puppies briefly, and patting her. There was only me there though, so both mum and breeder could clearly see what was going on. I met dad separately afterwards too.

When I went back to pick Saxon up to bring him home mum came to say hello then was put outside as she 1. wanted the attention and 2. was a bit over the puppies by then. I got to have a play with Saxon and his remaining (not yet picked up) brother and go through everything with the breeder then before we left.

I really liked the experience I had and in the future would like to be able to see mum with the pups at some stage if at all possible, but if there was a reason for things to go differently, the breeder explained why, I was confident in the breeder and everything else "added up" and made me feel comfortable, I wouldn't have a problem with the scenario in the OP.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Saxonpup

[JulesP]

Meeting the pup's parents hasn't really been a priority for me at all. It is nice to meet them but I am not really fussed about it. I guess when you get to know bloodlines etc it gets less important. I also trust the person I have been buying pups from to tell me what the parent's temperament is like.

If I was going to a new breeder I would like to meet the bitch and then for her to be put away. I wouldn't handle pups with the bitch there. I also wouldn't go and look at pups until they were 6 weeks old anyhow.

[poodlemum]

Of all but 2 of the litters I have had in the past, I had both parents. I usually let prospective buyers see & play with the puppies first and then let them meet Mum & Dad (and, when I had Niki, an older brother or Uncle ). Poodles are very gregarious dogs and I liked to see how prospective buyers interacted with the adults. If they weren't interest in the adults I took it as a warning sign that they only wanted a cute puppy, and might get disenchanted when the puppy grew up!

Of the 3 brood bitches I have had over the years, non could give a hoot about someone handling their pups , once they were weaned, but ALL of them wanted (demanded) attention from visitors!

Edited February 15, 2010 by poodlemum

[Bilbo Baggins]

I have people come as they wish and it suits me.

Mum is usually over the pups by 4 weeks and is in and out of whelping box.

By the time the serious decisions of selling unpicked babies they are viewed out in the backyard so they can run around with all the dogs, grandma, aunties etc.

Dad is usually not around but I have photos of him.

[Mim]

I have been in a few different situations as a puppy buyer.

The first time we met Sarge was at 3 weeks old. We met his dam first and the sire was pointed out to us (he was busy doing zoomies outside so we didn't disturb him ). Then we got to cuddle a few of the boys in the litter while the dam watched (she didn't mind).

When we went to get him at 8 weeks the pups were in a pen outside and mum and another bitch (Daina's dam) were inside and we had a cuddle with them first and spoke about some test results. Then we went outside to meet the pups again and mum stayed inside. When we brought Sarge inside the 2 bitches were put outside.

With Ziva, we again met the litter at 2/3 weeks old. The dam was in the room and let us get close to the puppies. Then when we went to pick up Ziva it was at a vet clinic as the breeder lives on a property very far away so she arranged for a room at her chosen vet clinic. The pups were all in a pen and the dam was watching on outside of the pen.

With Daina she was crated inside and Sarge's dam and her dam were outside but came inside when we got there. The breeder knows we are crazy about Sarge's mum, she is just fabulous, and so knew we'd want to see her again. Then Daina was let out to sniff around and meet us and her mum hung out for a while and decided to go outside again.

With Muddy, he was crated outside and his sire and dam were running around outside. When we went outside he was let out and had a play with his parents. His sister (the pick) was kept inside.

I don't think I'd think anything of the dam being separated from the puppies. As long as I get to meet the dam, I do not mind if she is with the puppies or not.

[leopuppy04]

AB - we are much the same as you - we had a pretty hectic household when the puppers were here, but they were mainly 'doggy friends' and visitors, rather than puppy buyers.

Many of you have said that the mums/ adults are put away because they are too boisterous. Would you feel differently if the breeder said that it was because mum was protective over the pups?! Particularly given you may know the dog and have seen the (very friendly) dog away from the pups.

This isn't a 'real life' situation, but a general question . We had no issues with our pups and visitors, but for safe keeping, we did keep her away if the visitors weren't people she knew

[WreckitWhippet]

Our puppies are whelped and raised in the house. The bitch has a large covered whelping box and a puppy pen around it. Right in the middle of the loungeroom.

So when I say remove her from the pen, it's the puppy pen surrounding the box.