Behaviour Issue

[Aidan]

Vet Behaviourist???? What the hell for??? They will put him on calming drugs and then give you the exact same advice as most here have already.

So cynical! For a proper diagnosis, which could not be made from the information at hand when I made that suggestion (and shouldn't, strictly speaking, be made by anyone else).

[Kelpie-i]

So cynical! For a proper diagnosis, which could not be made from the information at hand when I made that suggestion (and shouldn't, strictly speaking, be made by anyone else)

Hi Aidan, I just don't see why the OP should be referred to see someone who probably hasn't a clue about working/herding dogs.... and also one that is most likely only going to dose up the dog on drugs some $300 later? What diagnosis is there to make...high drive dog + not enough stimulation = behaviour.

We live in a society who is way too quick to 'cure' all behaviours with medication. What happened to good old fashion common sense?

[Erny]

Agree with Kelpie-i on this one.

I'm not against use of drugs in combination with behaviour modification therapy.

However, I hear all too much about how no behaviour modification was even attempted to see what improvement could be attained without the use of drugs. I don't know if it is because people go to Vet/Behaviourists with an expectation of drugs being administered.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Erny

[Aidan]

... and also one that is most likely only going to dose up the dog on drugs some $300 later? What diagnosis is there to make...high drive dog + not enough stimulation = behaviour.

We live in a society who is way too quick to 'cure' all behaviours with medication. What happened to good old fashion common sense?

I guess we must just have different experiences with veterinary behaviourists? Although I do certainly agree that some of them seem more akin to "psychiatric pharmacologists for dogs". I think that's a bit of an illusion though, they are the only ones qualified to prescribe medication.

The local veterinary behaviourist refers dogs to my classes where appropriate, and only one of those dogs currently is on medication. Another will probably end up on medication, but was given a trial with me first. The veterinary behaviourists I've spoken to seem to be keenly aware of the needs of high drive dogs, it's not like they live in some sort of academic bubble! I'm a city boy with no experience with herding dogs and I was the first to recommend herding as an activity for this dog's needs, I don't think common sense is in that short supply amongst those in the field.

The diagnosis regards whether or not the dog has developed a stereotypie which may possibly be very difficult to treat without medication. At the time of the suggestion, very few details were known except that the dog was getting more exercise than most, was obsessively chasing reflections and his breed. Having known a dog who was put to sleep for similar behaviour it pays to be cautious. This particular dog lived in the bush, his owners were an athlete and a dog trainer. Not a high drive dog either, although a kelpie cross. Despite a very physically and mentally active life this poor dog was beyond help, unfortunately at that time his options were not as broad.

It's great when dogs just need a few lifestyle adjustments, but how do we know that will be the case from a short post on the internet?

[Kavik]

Zoe has a tendency to chase shadows and reflections. Unfortunately this was encouraged by my family when I was living at home who thought it was hillarious, and I didn't realise how damaging it would be. While she is a Kelpie X, I don't think herding would have been the answer (she is dog aggressive and can be skittish) - like Vickie I don't think herding is necessarily the answer just because the dog is a herding breed. I do think herding breeds may be more prone to this behaviour, but I don't think it is a desirable trait in them. Kaos, who is from a working Kelpie breeder, so bred to work sheep, does not exhibit this undesirable behaviour, and has never looked like doing so. Different temperaments.

[Aidan]

This might be an option:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...mp;hl=treibball

[Nekhbet]

I guess we must just have different experiences with veterinary behaviourists?

I find most of then have never trained dogs. I know one who cannot even walk their own dogs on lead or get them to sit.

Paper is one thing, practice is another. I'd rather a good trainer who then works in conjunction with a vet then heading straight to a veterinary behaviorist.

[PAX]

Zoe has a tendency to chase shadows and reflections. Unfortunately this was encouraged by my family when I was living at home who thought it was hillarious, and I didn't realise how damaging it would be. While she is a Kelpie X, I don't think herding would have been the answer (she is dog aggressive and can be skittish)

I love Zoe, don't be mean, she wasn't dog aggressive at my place. Poor Zoe zoe

[bordacollies4me]

As the breeder of the dog in Question...

most definitely more mental stimulation is needed, both Sire & Dam are active dogs who are active in Agility/Canine Disc & Herding, although not pure working lines, both have great desire and instinct to work stock... and am sure if given the chance would be very happy to live there lives just working stock.. well maybe not Coco who enjoys doing everything...

have sent Bexsta a private email with my thoughts on Kobe, but basically not enough mental stimulation... also do not think that a behaviourist is needed and the fact that she has already taken steps to interfere in the unwanted behaviours tells me she is on the right track...