rosie Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 oooh.. no tomato? Just gave mine one the other day - did not know about this. What are the problems with them? Have not noticed anything unususal, would I have noticed by now? *concerned* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Angel Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 OK this seems a bit strange to me. Vets-in-training only do about 100 hours of nutrition? EEK!! I did more than that when doing my Diploma of Massage Therapy. A vet is supposed to know what is best for our animal, and if they don't know, they need to be able to ask someone who does know. The vet recommended Pal food because, in his opinion, it was the best food on the market, being nutritionally sound etc etc. Obviously I had told him that Jasmine was on a barf diet (and I told him what she ate- you shoulda seen his face!!). I don't think he was recommending Pal just to rid her of constipation. Still, and this I think we should ALL remember: 1) he is entitled to his own opinion without people thinking he's a complete moron, and 2) I only found out about BARF about a week before I actually got Jasmine. Although I would expect a vet to at least KNOW about BARF and its basic ideas, not everyone in the world can be expected to know about barf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I don't think you can really view the number of hourse in isolation - that is pure lecture time for the actual subject. It doesn't include what is covered in other subjects nor what is done outside of formal tuition (given that each hour of lecture time equates to at least 2 or 3 more spent doing private study). Given that we spend 40 hours per week at uni for 5 years - where would you like the extra 300 hours of nutrition to go? Replace some pharmacology? Medicine? Surgery? Forget about horses, cows, pigs and birds? What is BEST is subjective - as I said earlier, our education is a grounding and people don't always do the right thing with it, nor do they care. Until they do something negligent (which recommending PAL for whatever reason is not) then often they will never get the kick in the shins they need to wake up. Personally - in my grand scheme of things nutrition isn't the most important thing I need to know about however I can fully understand that when you have the cares of an owner it becomes more hugely important. I build up knowledge when I have time - but for the most part I'm more interested in being able to make accurate and informed medical and surgical decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) Hi Divine Angel. ;) I did more than that when doing my Diploma of Massage Therapy. Damn! ;) I must have missed that the last time you told us. :D PS Only 5 more sleeps. Edited January 3, 2005 by pewithers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aatainc Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 pewithers, is that the diet from your breeder that you posted? For what it's worth - I'd be looking around for something better - WAY better. But that's just my opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Thanks aatainc. I'm not going to castigate her. I have too much admiration for the other things she's done. I'll ring you tomorrow night if that's OK. I'm thinking: a visit on Wednesday Evening? You can advise me further then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aatainc Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Pewithers, I'll need you to let me know what to order by tomorrow morning (before 9am) if you want to collect it on wednesday as it takes a couple days to get here. You hadn't yet confirmed any order that's all. And no, I wouldn't castigate her either - but it doesn't mean you have to stick to it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Vets-in-training only do about 100 hours of nutrition? EEK!!I did more than that when doing my Diploma of Massage Therapy. Of course you did, but you didn't learn how to treat stress in farrowing pigs, how to pull twin calves from a too small heifer, how to operate on a horse with a pendulated lipoma, and after-surgery management, the best treatment for a ruptured diaphragm in a dog, what to do about a compound fracture of the tibia in a cat, including anaesthetic, operating technique, and post op care, what feather disease looks like in a budgie, and the best treatment for a fish with swim bladder problems ... not to mention the myriad of problems which can occur in sheep, goats, llamas and alpacas, rats, guinea pigs, mice, tortoises and snakes!! Being a vet is a big ask - and new graduates continue to learn from older more experienced colleagues when they begin working. Some vets' exprience is in one direction, some in another - I know a great horse vet, but I wouldn't let him within 100 metres of a dog with a sore!! And - sad but true, there are some terrible vets, as there are terrible doctors, terrible dentists etc. My vet is terrific - he gives great bottles of wine at Christmas (remember that, Rappie!! - most important) Nutrition was obviously not a high priority of the vet you visited. So, we have fixed that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Hi Everyone - this is my first post for the year! DA - I think the advice about more fruit or vegetable fibre in Jasmine's diet is very sound. I'd like to add something else - EXERCISE. One of my dogs gets very 'bound up' on the BARF diet if he misses more than a day or so of vigorous exercise. So if Jas is getting a bit constipated, try giving her some vigorous play time and I'm sure it will help to produce "results". Incidentally, I wouldn't recommend you add pasta or any other cereal to her diet. Dogs don't digest cereal very well and wheat based products can produce increased allergies. That's one of the reasons Dr Billinghurst is so anti kibble based diets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Angel Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 OK apologies for the vet-nutrition comment, but I would think that as an animal doctor, they would need to know more about nutrition. As a vet in training, do you do specialities? Do all vets learn how to treat stress in farrowing pigs? (as if I know what that is!) The only reason I feed Jas cooked pasta ATM is because she normally gets dry food with her meals (yes I know, not strictly BARF but my dad got a 20 kg bag for free) Based on this morning's antics, lack of exercise isn't a problem. In the last twenty minutes, she's nicked off with: pack of batteries nail care kit beer bottle stubby holder "Picnic" wrapper Harry Potter themed playing cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I always thought that prevention is better than cure, so perhaps the 100 hours of animal nutrition could be expanded, than in the long run some lectures about medicines would not be as necesary. Yes idealistic and of course not real, Just a thought. pewithers - this diet consist of a lot of cereal - something that dogs dont really need. I would be replacing the wheatbix with some meat very fast. My breeder sugested somewhat simmilar diet when I bought my dog, after couple of years when I fed only BARF it was clear that my dogs coat was a lot better than any dog she had in her yard. And yes I have admired my breeder for long time........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Well Divine Angel it's time to swap vets. I took Tyler in for a consult today to discuss putting her on BARF. Even though I have never fed Tyler canned food he told me how bad it was for her, and was more than happy for me to swap her to BARF. He is interested in learning about BARF with me and has asked me to bring Dr Billinghursts books in and we will go through the transform together. He said that BARF is an exceptionally good diet as long as you can get the right balance. Cant wait for my books to arrive so that Tyler can start a healthier life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I work at a vet and my workmates were a bit skeptical about BARF. When I told them what I feed Diesel, they commented on how much more work it was than dry - which is true, but he certainly enjoys it and looks great! They are mostly worried about not getting the mix of ingredients right and are concerned that some people would feed a meat only diet. The parents of some friends of mine confirm that some people are like that - they are feeding their puppy only cooked meat I tried to explain the principles of BARF and that they need to feed more than just meat, and preferably raw meaty bones. We'll see how it goes. Interestingly we had a client come in with an old Beagle who was not well - and she fed BARF too! Gave me some good ideas, and was surprised they only feed cooked meat at the vet as she only feeds raw. Nutrition is rarely the focus of the vets where I work, unless it is a specific problem requiring a specific diet (where they use the Science Diet special diets). Mainly they are interested in getting the animals to eat AT ALL, and will give them anything they will eat including cooked chicken and cat food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I always thought that prevention is better than cure, so perhaps the 100 hours of animal nutrition could be expanded, than in the long run some lectures about medicines would not be as necesary.Yes idealistic and of course not real, Just a thought. pewithers - this diet consist of a lot of cereal - something that dogs dont really need. I would be replacing the wheatbix with some meat very fast. My breeder sugested somewhat simmilar diet when I bought my dog, after couple of years when I fed only BARF it was clear that my dogs coat was a lot better than any dog she had in her yard. And yes I have admired my breeder for long time........ I always thought that prevention is better than cure, so perhaps the 100 hours of animal nutrition could be expanded, than in the long run some lectures about medicines would not be as necesary. Very idealistic. "Preventative medicine" will always be important, however it wont account for the things that will always happen like dogs and cats aging, broken bones, ripped toenails, stuck grass seeds, traumatic hernias etc. Learning medicine isn't just about the drugs used - its essentially everything but surgery - how fast to run a drip, what kind of fluids, what the heck to do about a dog in shock with multiple things wrong, how to get glue out of noses etc. With reference to drugs specifically, often there is no time to check a book - you just have to KNOW what you can and can't use there and then. What do you use to anaesthetise an epileptic dog? What about one with head trauma? A blocked cat? A dog with a heart murmur? As a vet in training, do you do specialities? Do all vets learn how to treat stress in farrowing pigs? (as if I know what that is!) Yes, we all learn all of the major species - dogs, cats, birds, horses, pigs, sheep and cattle - husbandry and management, medicine and surgery. We're allowed special interests of course but if the course were to allow undergraduate specialisation then we wouldn't be able to become registered with the vet surgeons boards since our education would be deemed incomplete. In our final year, we are allowed relative freedom in choosing our placements - we've been offered two elective rotations where we may do whatever we wish. Some students are going to zoos in South Africa, some are doing orthopaedics research - I'm doing a dermatology rotation and also trying to get an equine rotation. So yes, that means we can manage stress is pigs of all age and sex groups, in both intensive and extensive settings, preg test sheep, cows, horses and pigs, pull stuck calves, help down cows, treat impacted crops in birds, fix broken legs or wings, manage renal disease in a goat, identify anthrax - right down to doing blood smears and stains, know the national procedures for a Foot & Mouth outbreak in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 C'mon Rappie, you forgot to mention recognition of Rabies, and how to get a horse out of a swimming pool!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Jed, my bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 my vet said the same....canned food has all the stuff they need in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Angel Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 Just thought I'd add an update on Jasmine's health. She is doing just fine now :rolleyes: I have added oil to her diet, am trying to put fur from her brush out of her reach (!) although stopping her chewing oin sticks and bark is still a challenge. She is pooing regularly, it looks healthy, she's happy, crisis over. As for changing the vet, we're moving soon anyway so I guess its now a non-issue. Although the vet in the town that we're moving to is a bit old-school so they may not have heard of BARF either... In that case, it's my job to inform them, isn't it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Hi Divine Angel. :rolleyes: Glad to hear that Jasmine is in tip top form. In that case, it's my job to inform them, isn't it?! You might suggest to them, politely and courteously of course. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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