Using Chalk For Coat Texture

[Elfin]

What would be the best chalk to use to add texture?

[Bullbreedlover]

Exhibitors should not be using chalk to alter the coat texture.

Yes I have used it on Bulldogs to white some stains on legs that a bath hasnt removed but never ever for coat texture.

I know of many dogs whom are literally coated in chalk powder.

Big no no.

Edited February 14, 2010 by stonebridge

[Elfin]

Ummmm... OK?

But I could use a spray such as Plush Puppy Ruffy Tuffy?

[ellz]

Many people use chalk for adding a bit of "texture" to the coat but a knowledgeable judge will know the feel of it. I'd be more inclined to have a look at the Plush Puppy range myself....drop Cheryl a line and see what she recommends!

[Bullbreedlover]

I guess when it comes down to brass tacks elfin, people will use whatever is on the market.

no substance should be used which is going to alter a coat texture

but people do use these products because they are produced.

Just my own personal opinion but i wish judges had more balls to send a dog out of the ring when it is known that they have drenched the dogs coat in chalk or potato flour, or a liquid substance.

Just as I hate hairspray being used on poodles etc.

What breed have you got?

Does the dog really need something to alter the coat texture.

[Elfin]

Tried Plush Puppy Ruffy Tuffy spray; I don't really like it. I like a lot of the other PP stuff, though.

Her coat just goes a bit limp and flat after bathing (and I am using shampoo for coarse coats). I am after a crisp coat, not a harsh coat.

I would bath her a few days before show (rather than the evening before) if I had the choice, but she paddles in the mud/swims in the dam/makes friends with dead things on most days.

[ellz]

stonebridge, although ideally all dogs would be shown unbathed, unbrushed and unaltered to ideally showcase their unadulterated, pure breed type, it is after all a DOG SHOW and I'd like to see ANY dog, of ANY breed which hasn't had some form of "assistance" to help it to look the way it does in order to do well. Even the most primitive breeds are generally helped along in some way with their appearance, even if only to remove pee stains, grass stains or some other NATURAL form of blemish!

[Bullbreedlover]

stonebridge, although ideally all dogs would be shown unbathed, unbrushed and unaltered to ideally showcase their unadulterated, pure breed type, it is after all a DOG SHOW and I'd like to see ANY dog, of ANY breed which hasn't had some form of "assistance" to help it to look the way it does in order to do well. Even the most primitive breeds are generally helped along in some way with their appearance, even if only to remove pee stains, grass stains or some other NATURAL form of blemish!

hey I am not saying they shouldnt be at least bathed with a good shampoo, brushed, combed and scissored..but why do people find it necessary to chalk or potato flour them up to their eyeballs? Or spray enough hairspray on them to sink a ship.

Quite simply it is not allowed.

It is not removing a blemish, it is altering the texture of a coat.

Heck our Kelpie used to get a hose down the day before a show and shown the next day and win.

Many people seem to have it in them that they HAVE to win at all costs because they have such a competitive streak in them.

Heck some people even scissor a breed in which their coat must not be scissored at all and they still win.

If a dog has the correct coat texture then all they would require is a bath if they need it.

[ellz]

Remember the old saying "it takes an exhibitor hours to hide a fault and it takes the judge 2 minutes to find it".

Let the judges who DO find themselves offended by "presentation" judge accordingly. As is obvious, there are far more who see it as part of the whole DOG SHOW and let things slide by than there are the others who judge strictly "by the book". Many of the judges who complain about the artificial presentation are the ones who haven't got the eye, or hands to find it!

For my part, I don't like it when a dog moves and leaves a cloud of chalk, powder or whatever behind them. I wonder what some judges think when they touch a dog and the colour comes off on their hands.

But as the only rulings that have been upheld concern the physical "colouration" of the coat through permanent dyes etc and as there are people designated by the controlling bodies as being authorised to take samples from such coats for testing, but no such person designated to deal with chalk etc, then I think it is fairly obvious what the more "serious" issue is.

And yes, I have one breed which is generally shown "au naturale" and another which is generally clipped, trimmed, bathed, dried and presented to within an inch of its existence but I do still use products from time to time to cover or "enhance" their natural condition and I have also worked for a professional handler in the USA and know quite a few secrets that I would literally DIE before I would use. And I've also been on the end of a lead of a breed of dog that is usually trimmed, brushed and hairsprayed into shape but I've never yet begrudged a judge putting their hands into the middle to check whether what is in the shop window is in fact what is behind the counter!

[Bullbreedlover]

Remember the old saying "it takes an exhibitor hours to hide a fault and it takes the judge 2 minutes to find it".

Let the judges who DO find themselves offended by "presentation" judge accordingly. As is obvious, there are far more who see it as part of the whole DOG SHOW and let things slide by than there are the others who judge strictly "by the book". Many of the judges who complain about the artificial presentation are the ones who haven't got the eye, or hands to find it!

For my part, I don't like it when a dog moves and leaves a cloud of chalk, powder or whatever behind them. I wonder what some judges think when they touch a dog and the colour comes off on their hands.

But as the only rulings that have been upheld concern the physical "colouration" of the coat through permanent dyes etc and as there are people designated by the controlling bodies as being authorised to take samples from such coats for testing, but no such person designated to deal with chalk etc, then I think it is fairly obvious what the more "serious" issue is.

And yes, I have one breed which is generally shown "au naturale" and another which is generally clipped, trimmed, bathed, dried and presented to within an inch of its existence but I do still use products from time to time to cover or "enhance" their natural condition and I have also worked for a professional handler in the USA and know quite a few secrets that I would literally DIE before I would use. And I've also been on the end of a lead of a breed of dog that is usually trimmed, brushed and hairsprayed into shape but I've never yet begrudged a judge putting their hands into the middle to check whether what is in the shop window is in fact what is behind the counter!

quite true

it is up to the judge to find these things. Sad though that many people feel it is necessary to put them in.

I know of a judge quite a few years ago whom announced to all exhibitors in the NS ring, that before their dogs entered the ring they were to remove all evidence of hairspry and chalk.

Many many people were running back to their gazebos in haste to remove what they had just spent hours putting on to their dogs.

It was so funny.

I have no problem in disturbing top knots to feel for correct skull structure.

many many breeds are trimmed in such a way to enhance the appearance or outline.

[Elfin]

I certainly do not want to trim, or have clouds of chalk billowing out from my dogs coat, but I was wondering what I can use to put a little texture back into to a slightly limp coat after bathing?

ETA: She has correct coat texture, but if I didn't bath her, the judge would be picking bits of dead possum etc out of her coat. She is not the cleanest girl in the world...

Edited February 14, 2010 by Elfin

[ellz]

We used to very lightly apply a coat conditioner followed by an application of chalk (put on with a shaving brush) on the Bedlington when we showed him in the USA. He had a slightly soft coat and the chalk helped it to stand out from his body better for trimming so it would possibly work for your girl.

Some Cholestrol or something rubbed lightly through the worst bits and a teensy application of chalk or powder may do the trick. Best thing is to try it.

The old saying I swear by "if in doubt, try it out!"

[poodlefan]

I certainly do not want to trim, or have clouds of chalk billowing out from my dogs coat, but I was wondering what I can use to put a little texture back into to a slightly limp coat after bathing?

ETA: She has correct coat texture, but if I didn't bath her, the judge would be picking bits of dead possum etc out of her coat. She is not the cleanest girl in the world...

I hear good things from Trisven about the Chris Christensen On the Wire Shampoo. That might be a better option than chalk.

[becks]

I've never had good results from shampoos suposedly designed for coarse coats.

Try bathing as early as you can before the show, even if you have to walk the dog on lead for a day or 2

water down the shampoo as much as possible before you apply it to dog and rinse off asap.

I use a whitening shampoo on the show dogs, if i bath their bodies before a show, as this seems to keep the texture better then other shampoos I have tried.

Other then that, can you roll the coat on your dog? i find having shorter coat coming in underneath helps the texture.

When judging, if i find a coat that i think has been 'enhanced' then it will get treated by me as if the coat is soft.

[SpikesPuppy]

Try bathing in a VERY diluted tea-tree based shampoo. I use this with my Border Terriers and it works well. Also, I would let the dog dry naturally, just comb it through with a narrow-toothed comb every so often until totally dry.

I am lucky that my guys have excellent coat textures and I can bath them the morning of a show if I need to (in any shampoo actually, except Aloveen or a conditioning version). BUT if I don't bathe them (I rarely do as they don't get particularly dirty), I use either water sprayed onto the coat then combed or brushed (with a stiff, nylon bristle brush- found boar bristle to cause frizzing of the undercoat) and then dryed off with a rough towel. OR I use a grooming chalk for harsh coats the night before and THOROUGHLY blowdryed/brushed out so not a trace left. I find this does not alter the texture at all, but does clean the coats and removes any odour they may have picked up (but like I said, they don't get overly dirty anyway).

Some people will disagree with not bathing before a show but :raspberry: to them. I don't see it as necessary if they are otherwise clean.

Stonebridge- how much experience have you had with wire coats? It's not just the texture but the overall feel of the coat... a wire coat usually doesn't settle overnight- some people bathe upto a week beforehand not because of poor texture, but because a harsh coat should not appear "fluffy" or "poofy", and that is something that is almost unavoidable, regardless of quality, immediately after bathing.

Edited February 15, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Stitch]

Of course you would only be using it to control fleas - so flea powder!